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Aro-tron

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Everything posted by Aro-tron

  1. I think the close-ups in the SCUMM Bar in MI1 serve to make the world feel more immersive early on in the game, and I never really thought about the fact that they mostly disappear afterwards. They are such a crucial part of my memories of Monkey Island, probably because I spent a lot of time as a kid wandering around through the early sections of the game not really knowing what to do. I didn't feel disappointed that they dropped away after that, though. They're kind of luxurious, but they also feel intrusive in a way that the regular dialogue usually doesn't. I did like that they returned at the end for the final scene with Elaine, and it gave the game a sense of coming full circle. I played the VGA as a kid, and even then I think I picked up on the fact that those portraits were pastiches of old, romantic oil paintings. There was something funny about the level of detail on them, even though the style was naturalistic. Which I guess is to say that they are dissonant with the rest of the game, but I enjoyed that aspect of them even as a kid. I some ways, I think they tried to improve on the full-screen portaits with full-screen animation in MI 2 -- There's the single instance of full-screen animation early in MI2 when Largo chucks a loogie, and that seems like it could have had the same effect of making the game feel like it's going to be more immersive and technically impressive, except 1). It's a shot of just a ball of spit/snot, and kind of gross 2). I think it took like a full minute to load on my computer back in the '90s, and then just as long to transition back to the regular game. So I'm looking forward to what other kinds of surprises the early stages of MI6 has for us
  2. Yes, I kind of like the kind of wavy, unkempt hair from MI1 and MI2 more than the big swoop of bangs that he's had since Curse. Looking at how his sprite has evolved, you MI2 might be my favourite Guybrush, and he's definitely the one that's the least lanky and the least YELLOW. I like things about all of them though. MI5 Guybrush is actually a pretty successful design (I like the patterned jacket a lot), and I think the new Guybrush borrows a lot from that approach. The Swoop is more pronounced (and more yellow) than ever though! I wonder if Purcell's MI1 paper dolls here inspired the pink party dress Guybrush gets to wear in MI2 (and in Marius' excellent recap animation) ...😄
  3. I don't quite get this ... obviously, we aren't meant to think the ship is really made of paper, just like we're not meant to think the boats in the earlier games were made of pixels or water colours or polygons or whatever. It's all artifice, isn't it? I personally think the new style looks more like a pop-up book or puppet-show than a scrapbook. I've made a similar argument to what you've said about the art styles before, and I still think it largely scans, although it does diminish the visual links between MI2 and MI3, as well as the ignore the stylistic jump from the computer art of EGA MI1 to the scanned-water colours of MI2. I think it's fair to say that MI3 reinterpreted the series in a way that cast a long shadow, and in a way that has kind of been undervalued by fans in the past 20 years. Both MI4 and MI5 are clearly attempting to translate that style to 3D, and even MI6 appears to be influenced by it. However, whereas MI4 and MI5 seem like kind of predictable points on a line, as successive attempts to tone down the exaggerated style of Curse in order to translate it to 3D, Return pushes the exaggeration in some unexpected directions, while bringing in visual touch-points from the pixel-era games as well What I like about the MI6 art style is that it is similar to the MI3 change in that it kind of retroactively casts the previous games in a different light. It has emphasized elements from various points in the series, but in kind of surprising ways. The more I think about this aspect of it, the more I like it, actually.
  4. This is an interesting point, looking at where Return chooses to hit the familiar, nostalgia buttons, and where it departs from what longtime fans of the series might expect. I thought it would be interesting to look at the art style in contexts of the other 'safe' choices the games make. Hiring back the original composers and classic (since MI3) voice cast, both of which were highlighted even in the teaser reel, are clearly indications that they are looking to appeal to longtime fans, and to honour the legacy of the games. I wonder how members of this forum would feel is they had gotten an entirely new composer, or if they had recast Guybrush. I think it would depend on what creative choices were made. I think it could be exciting, but also risky. I'm often surprised by how vocal many fandoms are about original voice actors being a 'make or break' deal, when other creative talent (art directors, writers, sound designers, etc) can be switched out without as much of a fuss. I like Earl Boen's voice, but I'm not going to lose sleep over who voices LeChuck. Dominic has such close ties with the fan community, that I think a lot of people would be upset if he were recast. There would be outrage, and thinkpieces about it, and certainly petitions to get him to return! His return is perhaps the main nostalgic element they had to get right. The voice actors, and the composers have largely been consistent throughout the series, but 2D, point and click design is more of a throw-back to the first three games. I don't think we would expect anything else from Ron Gilbert, but this is the first game in the series where the UI hasn't been 'modernized' to some extent to keep up with changing technology and tastes. I suppose in a way, changing tastes have made this kind of 2D, Point and Click throwback fashionable again, but it definitely has a 'nostalgia' flavor to it that was not present in the previous games. I mean, it's conceivable that someone would pitch a 'Return to Monkey Island' that was a fully 3D, high-polygon, procedurally generated, open-world adventure game, and swung for the fences. I think that might have pleased some of the fans who are upset about the new art style, actually. I'm not sure that I would be interested in that kind of game, but it would have been a choice. It would have been more expensive, of course, and maybe MI is not the kind of intellectual property that Disney feels comfortable investing that kind of budget in. Perhaps that is at the root of the many complaints I've seen of fans calling the art style "cheap" -- they are forced to reckon with the reality that something they loved since childhood isn't worthy of a big budget, AAA rendition, and is a niche product. I don't think that's the main reason, but maybe it's a small part. They had safe choices available to them about the voices and music, and a nostalgic option for the gameplay/UI that Ron had clearly been thinking about for a long time, but I'm not sure there was a safe choice for the art style. There's no consensus on what a Monkey Island game looks like, and I think the new style does a good job of evoking both the pixel art of MI1/MI2 and the style of MI3. That said, while it succeeds in not feeling like a throw-back, but it also doesn't feel like a natural evolution from any of the previous games -- I think it would be a shocking change after any of the games in the series. The biggest comparable shock would be the transition between MI2 and Curse, but I think in that case the evolution of the technology gave a reasonable justification for the change. The art direction on Curse also felt lush and expensive, "Disney-esque" in a way that only CD-ROMs made possible at the time. For RTMI they've managed to find an art style that IS in continuity with the previous games, but doesn't really push nostalgia buttons the way that the voice cast, music and interface do. I like that, personally, but I can see why it bothers some fans. What else could they have done? More of a faux pixel-art style would have been an option, but that likely would have made the game feel too 'meta' as well as regressive. It would have limited its overall audience, but I imagine the comments on Ron's blog would have been much more positive. A Curse-style animation style would have pleased other fans, but with essentially the same problems as pixel-art. I actually think if they had gone with either a slightly 'softer/cuter' version of Rex's art, or with a more 'realistic/naturalistic' style, less people would be upset. These are tendencies that I've seen in a lot of Monkey Island fan art that tends to be well-received. Either approach would have less risk. However, I don't think Ron Gilbert tends to make games that are particularly cute, or naturalistic. (Even the Humongous Games, while soft, childlike and cartoony, aren't very cutesy, and are certainly NOT naturalistic. The characters don't exactly lend themselves to plush toys).
  5. I doubt they’ll do this, but it looks like Brr-muda is some kind of frozen island, so I had the thought that maybe we’ll finally see the Ice Demon LeChuck that was the ending of Curse hinted at… not sure anyone is clamouring for that particular plot development, but 14-year old me thought it was an obvious direction for Monkey Island 4 🙃
  6. Yeah, I agree that there is a clear line from the MI2 backgrounds to the MI3 style. The character models are what makes it a big departure to me. You’re right that Return seems to be as inspired more by MI1 than the other games. I like the connection you’ve drawn about shapes and lines. So cool!
  7. Hear, hear! And happy birthday! We’re just about the same age. I’m astounded by how much influence my childhood has had over my interests as an adult, but I think the only way to keep that sense of joy and discovery really alive is to keep doing new things, experimenting and growing. I suppose that’s why this new Monkey Island feels exciting to me, while I would probably not want to play a pixelfied version …
  8. I actually want to pick up on a point of discussion from earlier in the thread about the difference in art styles between MI1 and MI2. I can see the difference now, but at the time it did not register to me as a ‘new style’. I played the CD-ROM version of MI1, so the interface was the same, the character’s models looked basically the same, and I was a kid so I didn’t really think about it. The jump in style with MI3 was obviously a much larger one, and I think a lot of fans were wary about it before they played the game. It was hard to know what to expect, and I think there was a general sense of relief that it still felt like an adventure game despite the animated style. Curse threw down a gauntlet that the subsequent games struggled with. It was popular, so you couldn’t ignore it, but it’s hard to think of a character design that would be more challenging to translate to low-poly 3D animation. EMI tried, but I think in that game it was the technology that changed, rather than the overall visual approach to the world. It probably wasn’t as drastic enough of a change to my mind. Tales was a more successful adaptation of the Curse style, but feels like it’s set in the same visual world as MI3 and 4. In that sense, I think we have three main visual ‘eras’: -the original EGA Secret, the VGA remake, and Revenge. -Curse, Escape and Tales. -Return to Monkey Island! Both Curse and Return show a big reimagining of what the visual world of Monkey Island is, in ways that actually manage to cast the previous games in a new light. They aren’t total ruptures, of course, and they remain rooted in aspects of the earlier games, but the approach is different enough that it feels like a radical change.
  9. In the negative reactions, I think there’s a lot of curdled nostalgia — folks who have wanted a ‘Ron Gilbert’s Money Island 3’ since they were eleven years old. That’s a lot of time to dream and ruminate, and the fact that while sections of the fandom didn’t regard one or more of the sequels as legitimate probably just fed into that utopian dream of a game that would fill the childhood void. The new game doesn’t look like the 1990s, though, and it’s not designed to hit other nostalgia buttons either (for example, a lush and romantic period piece, or a hand-drawn Disney cartoon). I think for those of us who moved on, and who want Monkey Island to move on, the new style is exciting, but for fans who want the game to return them to the comforting warmth of their childhoods, the style is a stark reminder that it’s not coming back. I do think there is an aspect of the style which is a little disarming initially — it’s fun, but it’s not cute, and Guybrush’s face in particular has a distancing effect that doesn’t immediately pull you in like the Purcell portraits do. So I think some fans will need to warm up to it, after they get over the shock of seeing something that doesn’t match their expectations. The more vitriolic voices are probably coming from people who are howling at the inability to regain their childhoods. I have a hard time not imagining deeply hurt, damaged people behind those keyboards. It’s sad, but they will eventually move in from spamming the comments and find other things to vent their existential disappointment in. Don’t let them get you down! There’s lots of other stuff to talk about There was a Monkey Island game I never played because I “the graphics” didn’t appeal to me, and I ended up ok.
  10. I am hopeful that the negativity will fade after people recalibrate their expectations. I think this was a sharp blast of emotion because the art is very different to what some longtime fans expected. I think the best thing to do is ignore the haters and just continue to discuss what is interesting about the game. Can you imagine the backlash about the MI2 ending if there had been social media in 1991??
  11. Longtime lurker (as in 20 years), but I just joined Mojo because I am so excited for this game. I thought you all might be interested in hearing about how the marketing has been received by someone who is a Monkey Island fan, but not a ... fanatic. My wife played the first MI back in her childhood, but I don't think she ever played any of the sequels. It made an impression on her though, because she started jumping up and down when I told her that there was a trailer for the new one, and she wanted to see it immediately. I was curious what someone who wasn't immersed in the discourse thought about the trailer and website. She really liked the interactive dialogue tree on the website, and immediately identified Stan as well as Otis ("that guy from your crew who was in jail!"). She read the little marketing blurb that refers to the original games and said "see, they just made two! why did you tell me this was number three?" ... so she really doesn't know about Curse or any except the first game. She really the trailer and immediately watched it twice, and then showed it to our two young kids. No qualms about the art style. She did say it was too bad they couldn't do it like the original game, but acknowledged that time goes by and you can't go back. Has been humming the theme song in the kitchen and now I know she will be bugging me about when the release date is ... Also: she asked me "would you have married me if I didn't like Monkey Island?" I said of course, since it's not really been a big part of our lives as a couple. She responded, "No, I don't think so, because if I hadn't played Monkey Island, I wouldn't be me."
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