clonedjedi Posted September 15, 2003 Author Share Posted September 15, 2003 Well of course after they invaded there army was revealed but why in the hell would a peace keeping force like the Jedi let them build this army if they had no reason 2. Just build it out of the blue to protect who from what there was no threat against them. The captain said that after they invaded the whole frigging army strolled through theed for crying out loud who could miss that its just a droid army parade. And he was captured by them then held as hostage. I respect for views but i think my answers are a little more backed up no offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Frozted - the reason the Trade Federation army has been allowed to exist is due to bribery and bureaucracy within the senate. Panaka's comment about the Federation Army being "battle-hardened" proves that the army is not a surprise. I mean, Panaka says this before they even start the invasion and reveal any army! Windu - WTF? When did I say they had no army? I said they were not in the army building business, not that they had no army! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted September 16, 2003 Author Share Posted September 16, 2003 even if it wasnt secret wat has it got to prove about wat i posted in the 1st place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Vostok - what i meant was if they wereny army builders, how could they have an army that well equipped (and experienced)? Frozted - i think you will find my view is backed up by the facts, as Vostok pointed out. In addition to Panaka's comment, look at the battle-scoring on the fed army vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 I don't think it would quite be battle scoring on them maybe from combat training and droid incompatence that's why in my Civilisation Analogy i'm making i'm making them less able to dodge. Also there would have been some army units attacking them on there way in. I beleive though that the republic weren't army builders either but they got a fullt equipped army it seems that people are learning what i already knew. That You Can BUY AN ARMY in the star wars universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Vostok - what i meant was if they wereny army builders, how could they have an army that well equipped (and experienced)? They bought it. Just like Viceroy said, this is something you can do in the Star Wars Universe. Another thing Viceroy said: that the battle-scoring could have come from training. This is what the EU claims; the EU says the army was kept secret until Naboo as Frozted believes. As this is contradicted by the movies, this is another piece of evidence condemning EU. Having said that it is still possible the scoring was made during training, but just thought I'd comment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Viceroy - you do realise that Armies dont shoot at each other with live ammo during training exercies right? Also, the Republic arent army builders, but it took 10 years to get one! Not good if you need it in a hurry. Vostok - and if their Army was that experienced, obviously they are army builders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Vostok - and if their Army was that experienced, obviously they are army builders. Please explain you logic here. Just because they build it themselves it's more experienced? What if they buy it then use it a lot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 - Well, since their Army is 'battle-hardened', it has been used a lot. - For it to have been used a lot, it would have had to have been around for quite some time. - If the Trade Fed use their Army a lot, and have had it for a long time, obviously, they are army builders. In addition to this, logic dictates that a society with a standing military force will have the necessary production lines to keep that military equipped and re-inforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted September 17, 2003 Author Share Posted September 17, 2003 The trade Federation bought there army simple if they had production facilities on there home planet why didn't the clones go and attack it? They bought the army and got another corporation to start production the trade federation is based around money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberhagen Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 IIRC it says in the databank at starwars.com that the TF did buy their battle droids and it even names the company that supplied them. The droidekas were made by someone else (some insect like race who modelled them on themselves). I think it also says that droid armies weren't banned until after the battle of Naboo, but that several organisations continued making them. I'm not sure if this agrees entirely with the films, as the Geonosians were shown making TF style battle droids (and incidentally, we all know that in AOTC the Republic DID invade Geonosis and occupy the droid making facilities). As for the "battle hardened" thing, I suspect that was a cliche inserted into the script without much thought, just because they thought it sounded good. When you think about it, how can a droid gain experience? Especially if it is slaved to a computer on the command ship and has no capability of independent thought. Another thing, even if the TF didn't normally invade planets you would expect them to have a military force to protect their trade routes/facilities from pirates, smugglers, hostile aliens etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I wasn't using EU i'm keeping most of that in my Civilisation Analogy which i'm doing off line and will post the entire thing on at the same time so no one will be left with a cliff hanger. For the battle scoring i thought it would have been obviuos that they would have done training. Windu i'm sorry to burst your bubble but the star wars universe is not the same as our universe as other people have pointed out the physics for lightspeed is all wrong. The star wars universe is completly seperate from this universe with it's own rules and sets of boundries and is therefore not comparable to anything in this universe. To do so would be a repetive cliche that everyone has an answer to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 - If the Trade Fed use their Army a lot, and have had it for a long time, obviously, they are army builders. This bit makes no sense. You could equally say, as I do: - If the Trade Fed use their Army a lot, and have had it for a long time, obviously, they bought it a long time ago. Saberhagen: The droids can gain experience. In Star Wars, most droids are just like sentient beings, only with metallic bodies. And although the Battle Droids are all controlled by a central computer, they don't share the same conciousness - think of it as they all have seperate brains but all the brains are remote from their bodies. This is evidenced by the need for Commander Battle Droids - like OOM-9. If they all shared one conciousess Commander Battle Droids would not be necessary. They also wouldn't need to talk to each other ("Check it out Corporal, we'll cover you!" "Roger roger!") as the single-brain would know how to co-ordinate itself automatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Frozted - during WW2, as soon as the war broke out why didnt the British attack the factories producing German Tanks, Aircraft etc? Saber - that's all EU Vostok - ok, think of it this way. If you were in control of a huge corporation, and wanted an army, would you boost someone else's economy by buying it, or boost your own by building it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Frozted - during WW2, as soon as the war broke out why didnt the British attack the factories producing German Tanks, Aircraft etc? Saber - that's all EU Vostok - ok, think of it this way. If you were in control of a huge corporation, and wanted an army, would you boost someone else's economy by buying it, or boost your own by building it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 I'd boost my own by building it, if it was as simple as that. The only way building my own army would boost my economy is if I kept building more armies to sell to others. Since the Trade Federation don't do this, we can only assume they chose the cheaper option of buying the army and boosting someone else's economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted September 18, 2003 Author Share Posted September 18, 2003 Thats why they probably selected a really unknown corporation so they couldn't resist seeing it could open up some many chances in there business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberhagen Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 I don't necessarily believe any of that, I was just pointing you all towards a potentially relevant source and I did include the qualification that it might not agree with the films. Again I think the battle droids talk to each other and say things like "roger roger" just because producers/scriptwriters thought it would be cool. It doesn't necessarily make any sense. I was under the impression that while OOM-9 had some independence the normal battle droids didn't have any at all, but I could be wrong. As I've said before, there are no facts because it's all fiction. Even real history doesn't have any absolute truth -you have to form an opinion based on incomplete and sometimes contradictory sources. Taking it further though, experience in the case of battle droids and their command computer would only relate to their AI learning better tactics. With humans the most important role of battle experience is to overcome fear, and I think we all agree that battle droids are completely unable to experience fear (despite them occasionally saying "oh-oh" when things go wrong). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Originally posted by Admiral Vostok I'd boost my own by building it, if it was as simple as that. 1. The only way building my own army would boost my economy is if I kept building more armies to sell to others. 2. Since the Trade Federation don't do this, we can only assume they chose the cheaper option of buying the army and boosting someone else's economy. 1. Actually, by building your own Army, you are able to use your own sources of labour (if required), do not have to pay for materials for another builder, and do not have to pay for transport costs. In addition, you gain experience in buyilding a military and have a source of production that is completely under your own control. 2. Vostok, beware the dark side. If you choose the quick, easy and EU path, as Corran has, you will become an agent of EUvil. How do you know the TF doesnt build droids? Do any of the movies tell you? No. Even though the Geonosians build droids, many different organisations use them, so it is more than likely the TF build their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted September 18, 2003 Author Share Posted September 18, 2003 well how do u know they do looks like u are the EUvil one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Windu, stop ignoring the fact that they aren't selling droids. If they had the facilities they would be doing so. Also I think you forget your place. Am I not the Lord of Purists? You're lucky I don't cast you out of the sect of Purism with your Yuuzhan Vong thread... I am using knowledge purely from the movies, not EU. If the Trade Federation were building Battle Droids, I hardly think they'd be considering signing a treaty with Geonosians, who are their marketplace competitors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 You lot shpould give it a rest all EU has a basis of fact in it it's like saying the Corporate Alliance Tank Droid is EU because it was in a deleted scene or saying what a units name is even though it wasn't mentioned in the film by this film's nature any clear cut definitions you have are wrong with star wars and what you call EU there is no clear cut line it is very blurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Viceroy, when will you learn? There is a clear cut: stuff in the movies is canon, stuff not in the movies is EU. If you can sit in front of the movie and find something out, it's canon. If you need to go look up a databank or something it is not. So yes, the Corporate Alliance Tank is EU even though it was almost in the movie: "almost" isn't good enough. And as for characters names, if their name isn't said in the movies and isn't in the credits then their name is EU, which I don't care about since if they aren't in the credits they're hardly significant, are they? To some people, the line is not blurred at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted September 19, 2003 Author Share Posted September 19, 2003 EU is not fact most of it changes the story line altogether its not apart of the true SW storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Vostok - im shocked. 1. No film states that the TF doesnt sell Battle Droids, you are assuming it 2. They DONT make an alliance with the Geonosians, they ally with the Comerce Guild, Banking Clan etc as the Confederacy of Independant Systems, and at no point is it mentioned that the Geonosians belong to the confederacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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