Workers, resources and a touch of jedi

[clonedjedi]

DUDE!!!!!!!!!!

 

I cant believe u said that there leader provided there planet for droid facilities and your telling us they didnt make an alliance.

[Admiral Vostok]

Okay, while many things aren't explicitely stated in the movies, we can certainly assume them using logic and not any EU. So here's a few things you may have overlooked, Windu:

 

It would appear that although Geonosis isn't a major signatory to the Confederacy, they are in fact under the control of the Techno Union and therefore are officially part of the Confederacy through the Techno Union's involvement. I'm taking this from the Techno Union dude's comment: "With these new Battle Droids we built for you, you'll have the finest army in the galaxy". Obviously the Techno Union runs the droid factories on Geonosis.

 

Geonosis has huge landing sites for the Trade Federation's Starship Core. If the Trade Federation was building and selling Battle Droids it would be highly against the Geonosian nature to accomodate a business rival. Clearly these landing bays are to assist in the delivery of droid armies to the Federation, as well as making reinforcement supplies easier.

 

Some asides that aren't entirely relevant to our argument:

By the end of Attack of the Clones the Trade Federation does still not officially belong to the Confederacy. Nute Gunray states in one scene "what about the Senator from Naboo? I'm not signing anything until I have her head on my desk." If he sticks to this statement, it seems unlikely the Trade Federation will ever formally join the Confederacy, and will instead continue in an informal alliance. This may also be why we didn't see any MTTs or AATs during the Battle of Geonosis.

 

I didn't pick up on Viceroy's statement before about the Trade Federation buying the army from the factories of Hallor Chall or something. This information is another example of EU contradictions: the source of this information also claimed Droidekas were built by a seperate company to the other Battle Droids, which we know to be untrue from AotC as we see Droideka parts being assembled. And while it is possible that Hallor Chall is another Forge World like Geonosis also under the Techno Union's control, it wouldn't make sense to have the Federation Starship landing bays on Geonosis if they hadn't taken the delivery of their army their.

[DK_Viceroy]

Actually Another company doesn't build them it's a common misconception about those who do not yet know the truth. The Droidekas were only designed by the Collicoids not built by them them just made the designs in exchange for their payment. After the invasion of naboo the senate passed legislation cutting back on battledroid production by all KNOWN foundries by puting a limit on how many couild be built. So the trade federation had to go look for a SECRET foundry and found it on GEONOSIS.

[Admiral Vostok]

Oh okay, well I guess that isn't so contradictory.

[clonedjedi]

NO way nute gunray stayed with the Confed if he left who would protect him a bunch of rubble lying in the arena?

 

lol viceroy collects fact file wat else does fact file say

[saberhagen]

Originally posted by Admiral Vostok

There is a clear cut: stuff in the movies is canon, stuff not in the movies is EU. If you can sit in front of the movie and find something out, it's canon. If you need to go look up a databank or something it is not.

 

 

That's a nice clear cut definition in theory, but in practice it can become absurd. For example: AT-ATs. We all know what an AT-AT is, we've seen them in the films, so they must be canon, right? Well, actually the name AT-AT is never mentioned anywhere in any of the films which means that by your definition it's EU. The only time anyone refers to them by name is a rebel soldier who calls them "Imperial walkers". I can't remember any explicit mention of the words TIE fighter, although I could be wrong. I'm fairly certain that TIE bombers and interceptors aren't mentioned by name.

 

On the rebel side, we don't know that those new fighters in ROTJ are called A-Wings and B-Wings or that Admiral Ackbar is a Mon Calamari. The TF vehicles (AAT, MTT, STAP) are similarly unnamed in the films. And we don't even know what those annoying furry creatures from the forest moon of Endor are called...

 

Splitting hairs even further, there's nothing in the OT films or credits to say that the Emperor's name is Palpatine, although it was common knowledge at the time. Strictly speaking (and that definition is very strict) the idea that Palpatine becomes the Emperor is currently EU and will be until EpIII comes out.

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. The TF was hostile to the Republic, as was the Techno Union. When the Republic landed on Geonosis, both found themselves on the same side, and would have put economic differences behind them in order to defeat their common enemy - the Republic and the Jedi.

 

You have still yet to show any conclusive evidence that i'm wrong about the TF building their own droids.

[Admiral Vostok]

Windu - once again you've done your famous "over-looking hard evidence". What of my notes about the Federation Starship landing bays? Clearly this indicates that Geonosis and the Trade Federation have a history going back before the battle, and the only reason to accomodate the Federation in such a way would be to facilitate army delivery.

 

saberhagen - all you say is true (except that TIE Fighter is mentioned in the movies and Ewoks is written in the credits). All the rest is, by my definition, EU. This is why I divide EU into sub categories. Have a look here for more information. Basically what I'm saying is that just because it is EU doesn't mean it isn't generally accepted as being "correct".

 

I might add that in the near future I'm going to get fairly academic about EU and Star Wars, and perfect my theories, then publish them on my website, which I hope to become the beacon for anti-EU sentiments.

[saberhagen]

Oh, I'm disappointed. I thought that would really annoy you...

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - what point about TF starship bays? As i have said Vostok, there is NO, repeat, NO evidence that the TF doesnt build their own droids, and from a military and economic point-of-view, it would be stupid of them not to.

[Admiral Vostok]

While it's true that there is no evidence, it just makes better sense the other way.

 

My point about the landing bays is that if the Trade Federation doesn't buy their droids from Geonosis, what is the purpose of installing special landing bays for their starships?

[lukeiamyourdad]

For god sakes I've been gone for a week and this is still going on?!

Shouldn't you put your energy into the possible new game instead of this small detail that nobody f*****' cares except the both of you?!

How is this gonna affect the game huh?!

HOW?!

[Admiral Vostok]

Hey I'm commited to the game. Have you read the latest installment of Vostok's SWGB2?

 

As I'm sure you're aware, Luke's Dad, I love discussing minor details of the movies like this. And I'm quite sure Windu does too. Sorry about the destruction of this thread and all but that's what we do.

[Darth Windu]

Yeah, what he said. I'm still working on my SWGB2 idea, and this argument is between Vostok and myself, i dont see how it hurts anyone else on the board.

 

Getting back to the forementioned argument...

 

Actually Vostok, it makes better Military and Economic sense for the TF to buiild their own droids, also, the large hanger bays for the TF battleships are for an Amphibious Assault. I'm sure that if you had a look at, say, a Wasp-class you would see that the lower decks are packed with Armoured Vehicles, light vehicles, landing craft etc. That is the point of the bays, not for recieving droid deliveries.

[clonedjedi]

dont worry im sure both of there ideas will clash and the fighting continues

[Admiral Vostok]

No Windu, you misunderstand me. On the surface of Geonosis, there are huge circular pits that the detached Federation Starship Cores land in. I question the presence of these pits if your theory is to be believed.

 

Also, if one of your allies builds and sells the military supplies you need, and you are not a manufacturing corporation yourself, why the hell would you waste the money to set up your own facilities?

[Darth Windu]

And how do you know they arent a manufacturing corp?

 

Also, the pit's could have just been to hide the presence of the TF battleships of Geonosis from sensors or something - ask lucas.

[Admiral Vostok]

And how do you know they arent a manufacturing corp?

Because they are called the Trade Federation. Really Windu I would have thought even you could figure that one out.

 

Also, the pit's could have just been to hide the presence of the TF battleships of Geonosis from sensors or something - ask lucas.

Apart from the fact that this is unlikely due to the fact that it in no way hid their presence at all, it still contradicts your theory. According to your theory the Trade Federation are in direct competition with the Geonosians because they both build Battle Droids. Why would the Geonosians go out of their way to build special facilities to accomodate them?

[saberhagen]

It could be that the TF ships are actually a generic type which are used by other civs/orgsaniations as well. If you maintain that the TF buy their droids rather than building them, wouldn't they buy their space ships as well?

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - so what if they are called the Trade Federation, that doesnt preclude them from building things as well.

 

Also, i dont recall ever seeing anything about droid deliveries to those battleships in Ep2, i might ask at the official website why the BB's were on the ground...

[Admiral Vostok]

Saberhagen - it's possible yet unlikely considering everytime a character sees them they say "there's an unusual concentration of Federation Ships" or "attack those Federation Starship". They would no doubt be known by a more generic name than "Federation Starship".

 

Windu - You do that, but since all of the EU literature (post AotC) surrounding the Trade Federation says they bought it from the Geonosians I hardly think they'll tell you differently.

 

And the Trade Federation might manufacture some things, but that doesn't make them a "manufacturing corp". Their primary concern is trade and it would be very uncharactersitic of the Neimoidians to branch out into droid sales.

 

Also what does BB stand for? I know you mean the Federation Starship, but I can't think of any name for them that would be "BB".

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - i meant i was going to ask why Lucas had them sitting on the ground.

 

With Trading, Manufacturing and such, we dont know anything about how the TF conducts buisness, so either of us could theoretically be right.

 

As for the 'BB' thing - my bad, it's the military abbreviation for Battleship.

[Admiral Vostok]

Yes I encourage you to ask, but they will most likely report back with the EU explanation, since it doesn't conflict with the movie. That is that they are getting new droids delivered. If you have access to the Incredible Cross-sections book, take a look, it says it in there. Although it is EU, and they get it wrong in a few places, it is still a good reference and enjoyable read.

[DK_Viceroy]

I agree Luke who built the Trade Federations army is not even significant since by their reckoning to say they built it is eu and they didn't build it is eu also which brings me back to the blurred line parody who built the army is of no matter. I hardly imagine that people are going to want to know that and if they did it should be dabated AFTER everything else for the game is done and keep all this time wasting for a databank. However they may be just using this as a smokescreen to get their ideas finished, By the way windu I saw your idea and it's pretty good one thing i noticed though for the yuzzhan vong they didn;'t used shamed ones to build their structures they used shapers the shamed ones gather resources it would add diversity if the shamed one was the gatherer and shaper the builder. The warriors were really all purpose and Rocket warrior wouldn't exist remeber they destroy technology they hate technolgy they wouldn't use a machine to help them in theiur quest for galactic domination they would use thudbugs and razor bugs instead of rockets.