FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by dyehead I'm sorry Furion, but grip has been nerfed You used to be able to grab someone behind a corner and hold them so they couldn't get out of it (without absorb) Now, anyone, skilled or not can easily pull or push you when you grip, because as soon as you put someone behind a corner, pillar, wall, you name it, the grip is broken. The only difference between level 2 and 3 grip, is you can move (albeit slowly). The only thing changed in grip was to make it less useful, hence being called a nerf. DFA was made less useful from 1.02 - 3, so that's called being nerfed. I agree that JO 1.02 -> JO 1.03 = nerf I agree that JO 1.03 -> JO 1.04 = better I agree that JO 1.02 -> JO 1.04 = nerf I do not agree that JO 1.04 -> JA 1.0.x = nerf In this equation, you are assuming that, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, the changes from one GAME to another equals nerf. But, NOT ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL. JA is a new game. You and others may not like the changes, but there's no real point in comparison. Just for the sake of argument, would you call Boxing a nerf of Kick Boxing because you cannot kick in regular boxing? No! That's because if you want to kick whilst boxing, you do Kick Boxing. You DON'T go running to the officials and say "It's unfair that you don't let me kick! It's the only way I know to stun my opponent!" I doubt you'd like the response you would get from that official. Somewhat similar to the response you are getting here... Originally posted by dyehead Not trying to insult you, but maybe we have a different idea of what the word nerfed means. Yes, it would appear we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Look guy I made an open challenge and this time I will make it even more specific so there is no way you can avoid answering my questions. Tell me what is different from Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy in regards to these powers (in multi player): And when I say different I mean in terms of mechanics, not aesthetics. I really don't care if lightning is a pastel blue now as opposed to an indigo purple (etc.) Lightning Drain Force Jump (other than the *nerf removal of double tap kicks) Force pull (other than the *visual effect of the bubble) Force push (see above) Grip (other than the *nerf line of sight penalty) Rage (other than the *nerf no speed+rage bonus) Team Energize Team Heal Protect Absorb Saber throw Saber attack Saber defense Mind trick Seeing Please take your time and comment on each individual power. Now sabers: Light stance (single saber) Other than the roll+stab what swings and combos have changed? Medium (Same) Other than the roll+stab what swings and combos have changed? Oh yeah, the yellow dfa has a spin restriction on it now *nerf Heavy (Same) Other than the roll+stab what swings and combos have changed? Granted the dfa has a different button press method now but it is unchanged from Outcast. I mean when I do a red triple swing in Outcast, it looks exactly like the red triple I do in Academy. Why is that? My yellow/blue "fan" combos take the same key presses in both and, I'll be dammed, have the same animation and results in both. Again, tell me which swings have changed, which combos? Take your time and dissect each stance for the single saber please. Guns: Chewbacca gun ST rifle Repeater Golan Rocket launcher Demp Det packs Sniper (other than the zoom delay penalty *nerf) Mines (I forget the others) I mean, when I press the chewy gun I get the same fire, rate and effect as I did in Outcast? What gives? All the other guns have the same primary and alt fire effects as they did before; they function with the same level of accuracy and rate of fire as before.. Why is this? Again, list the specific details as to why you claim they are different. I’m not talking about ghoul2 collision either, I want to know how the *guns are different. Does the alt fire on the rocket launcher shoot out penguins now? What does it do, tell me please. You can't, if you could have you would have. You "schooled" no one noob, you simply avoided the challenge I presented to you and thought you could avoid having to validate your argument by turning this into a “pissing match” (argument for those of you who did not get that one). And that challenge was (and still is) to prove your point that I was incorrect saying it’s the same content with new aesthetics. Take those things I laid out above and tell me what is different. I can easily validate my point because if you own this game you can go use each swing, power and gun and when the corresponding key is pressed, you get the same result you did in Outcast. Now please show my how I am wrong in saying when I turn on <power> fire <gun> swing <single saber stance> I get any different result than I did in Outcast. /waits…. I mean really guy, even the people who are giving us hell about putting kicks in at least acknowledge that this "new game" was built off the corpse of Jedi Outcast and it's overwhelming content remains identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! I mean really guy, even the people who are giving us hell about putting kicks in at least acknowledge that this "new game" was built off the corpse of Jedi Outcast and it's overwhelming content remains identical. If it's a corpse, why do you want to play it in JA? And, yes, you completely lost the argument. In at least HALF the instances where you were asking me to show how they were different, you were qualifying your statement! Geez. How stupid do you have to be to acknowledge how weak your argument is whilst making it? You STILL have as yet to present to me your hex listing of both EXEs of the game to PROVE that JO = 85% of the code of JA... Come on! This is at least PROVABLE beyond the shadow of a doubt! And you still won't take me on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by FurionStormrage If it's a corpse, why do you want to play it in JA? And, yes, you completely lost the argument. In at least HALF the instances where you were asking me to show how they were different, you were qualifying your statement! Geez. How stupid do you have to be to acknowledge how weak your argument is whilst making it? You STILL have as yet to present to me your hex listing of both EXEs of the game to PROVE that JO = 85% of the code of JA... Come on! This is at least PROVABLE beyond the shadow of a doubt! And you still won't take me on... a challenge to a 1v1 is a tool to show you first hand what he means. words cannot convey what actually goes on ingame as much as actually SEEING what goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Rumor a challenge to a 1v1 is a tool to show you first hand what he means. words cannot convey what actually goes on ingame as much as actually SEEING what goes on. All a 1vs1 battle means is pitting one's skill against another. I freely admit that my skill level is in all likelihood subpar to his on a gameplay level. Him stomping on my ass is not going to PROVE that JO = 85% JA code. It is not going to PROVE that all moves are IDENTICAL. The only way to PROVE that the code is identical is a hex listing. Somehow, I don't think any one of you is going to accept this challenge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Again, I asked you to list the difference in those guns, powers and swings. That content alone makes up a huge portion of multiplayer content (all the guns except for one, all the force powers and all the swings other than the two new stances more than qualifies as a significant portion would you not agree?). Prove me wrong; don’t try to derail this like you just did. You can’t and now you’re reaching for anything you think will derail attention off you having to validate your bogus claim. Please do not pull a “Spider Al” (argue just for the sake of arguing). You claim this is a debate, I laid out a challenge, take those individual points (powers, guns and swigs) and dissect each and validate your stance. To prove me wrong you need to do so, I proved they are identical (as can any other person with both games) by simply pressing the corresponding keys and getting the same results in both games. That is how a debate works, I present a point, validate it, you disagree and invalidate it. It is now your turn to prove to me and the world how when I press both the primary fire and alt fire with those guns, something different happens in Outcast than in Academy. It is now your turn to prove that when I activate said powers, I get a different result in Outcast than in Academy. It is now your turn to prove that when you press the same combination of keys in single stance you get different results in Outcast than in Academy. (I gave you the DFA; now go find me differences for all of the dozens and dozens of swing and combos). /waits… And to clarify my comment about it being the same code, is every string of code identical? Of course not, but it was built off the last game and is not an entirely new build and when I refer to it being "85% the same" I am referring to content and mechanics, not every miniscule line of code in the build. You could totally change the code in the build but if the content and mechanics remain the same, the overwhelming majority of people are rational enough to grasp it's the same thing. I could de decompile, alter a few lines of code and recompile Jedi Outcast but if it plays the same are we still going to call it a new game? And when as proven above, all the powers, all but one gun, and all but two new stances are identical to the way the were in the previous game that pretty much makes up about 80-85% of the multiplayer dynamics. The maps and few new additions making up the 20-25% remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! That is how a debate works, I present a point, validate it, you disagree and invalidate it. And that's why this is not a debate. You have not, and can never validate, your points. You are repeating and repeating the points thinking that repitition alone will validate your points for you. (argumentum ad absurdum) Originally posted by the weiner dog! (I gave you the DFA; now go find me differences for all of the dozens and dozens of swing and combos). Still waiting for the blow to land... wait 1 wait 2 wait 3 wait 4 Tell you what. I'll go to sleep here on the floor and you get 8 hours to validate your claims. IF you can validate them, THEN I will participate in the debate (because that's when it starts). Until then, *yawn* EDIT: While the weiner dog is coming up with his "proof" I suggest the modders get started on their mods USING THE JO SDK! After all, if the games are EXACTLY THE SAME, the SDK should WORK PERFECTLY (unmodified), shouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 You are still avoiding the questions laid out to you. I get all of the same results form all the guns that are in outcast and academy (sniper delay withstanding) Prove that wrong ^ I get all of the same results from all of the saber swings that are both in Outcast and Academy (dfa button sequence withstanding) Prove that wrong ^ I get all of the same results on all of the force powers present in Outcast and Academy (grip line of sight restriction withstanding) Prove that wrong ^ Owned. Now go back to the swamp and "debate" on yoda vs. dooku you silly noob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! You are still avoiding the questions laid out to you. When you ask one, oh weiner dog. You could start by trying to poke holes in my last post. Somehow, I don't think you will... wait 1 wait 2 wait 3 wait 4 *snore* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! You are still avoiding the questions laid out to you. I get all of the same results form all the guns that are in outcast and academy (sniper delay withstanding) Prove that wrong ^ I get all of the same results from all of the saber swings that are both in Outcast and Academy (dfa button sequence withstanding) Prove that wrong ^ I get all of the same results on all of the force powers present in Outcast and Academy (grip line of sight restriction withstanding) Prove that wrong ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 one more time: Originally posted by the weiner dog! You are still avoiding the questions laid out to you. I get all of the same results form all the guns that are in outcast and academy (sniper delay withstanding) Prove that wrong ^ I get all of the same results from all of the saber swings that are both in Outcast and Academy (dfa button sequence withstanding) Prove that wrong ^ I get all of the same results on all of the force powers present in Outcast and Academy (grip line of sight restriction withstanding) Prove that wrong ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 someone just got owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! I get all of the same results form all the guns that are in outcast and academy (sniper delay withstanding) Proved it wrong yourself. Originally posted by the weiner dog! I get all of the same results from all of the saber swings that are both in Outcast and Academy (dfa button sequence withstanding) And you somehow managed to forget that the DFA now takes 50 force. Originally posted by the weiner dog! I get all of the same results on all of the force powers present in Outcast and Academy (grip line of sight restriction withstanding) Once again, proved yourself wrong... Truly ironic that the questions you want answered are all listed with EXCEPTIONS. Ipso Facto, the games are NOT IDENTICAL. This has been a test of the Emergency Debate System. If this were a real debate, real questions would be asked and answered. Originally posted by the weiner dog! someone just got owned. Boy, did YOU just step on your weiner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Ardent He's still of the opinion you're talking out of your anus about JA being built on the same basic code JO is, unnamed. That, he is. Same basic code, plus a lot of extras. Same/identical code; yeah, he's talking out of his ass. Originally posted by Ardent I don't think his definition of nerfed is even in account here, but his opinion of reality probably is. Same game = nerf Different game != nerf Different game = different abilities or the lack thereof. Originally posted by Ardent Let's work on the facts here: JO and JA are both built on the Q3ARaven engine. So they have at least that in common. It is not the SAME Q3ARaven engine. There have been code changes to it. Not to mention the ghoul hit detection code. Not to mention the ragdoll physics... In other words, a LOT of additional code. Originally posted by Ardent But that's not the only place we see that they have things in common. They share the same foundations of the saber code. They share the same foundations of the Force code. Same FOUNDATION; not IDENTICAL CODE. Originally posted by Ardent Obviously there has been work done to make improvements, but by the same token, there's been a lot of nerfing done. New game; no nerfing. Originally posted by Ardent We're not asking for something we couldn't do ourselves, which would put you guys in essentially the same position you're trying to avoid now: your list of "acceptable" servers would diminish. Lemme be blunt: that's going to happen no matter what. Since we're all being blunt here, by all means please do so. If your mod is great and expands the gameplay by so much that even Raven is forced to acknowledge that they goofed, then everyone will benefit. IF YOU AND YOUR ILK HAVE THE MEANS TO MAKE THIS MOD THEN PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP COMPLAINING AND MAKE IT! Originally posted by Ardent As the casual gamers become disenfranchised of the game (when HL2 is released or when Doom 3 is released or when Kerpoppi the video game is released or whatever) and leave, they take their servers with them more often than not. The servers that stick around tend to belong to the clans that have a vested stake in the game; consistantly competitive clans who are active on the ladders, i.e. us. In order to play with other people, rather than bots, you'd have to download our mod and then abide by all the other additions our mod makes. At least if I am downloading your mod I know what the mod is going to do. As matters stand now I have to put up with joining server after server trying to find a person that didn't turn on every available cvar that I don't want because it's not advertised as such in the description. When you ask for even MORE cvars to be unlocked you just make it harder and harder for someone to find the server they want. Originally posted by Ardent but you shouldn't have to download an independently-produced mod for a game to be enjoyable for everyone. In a good game, any given person should be able to find and have access to something they like. We know the old kick code is still there and we like it and we just want access to it. Understand? What I don't understand is why you think that everyone who is going to buy a game has to be pleased with what they bought. I bought a game that I thought was going to be great. It turned out to be horrible. In addition to gameplay issues, it happened to be extremely buggy. Many people are not and were not happy with this game. Most of us will almost certainly never buy another game in this series, and we will probably never buy a game from that developer again. As a matter of fact, the ONLY way that a considerable amount of us started enjoying the game is BECAUSE of user-created mods. Sure, I was one of many people asking for a patch. We were asking for a patch to address BUGS. Did we ever get it? No. So, I understand what you are saying. You are saying that you are many seeking to benefit the masses. I am saying that there are probably relatively few of you (compared to how many copies were sold, and are continuing to sell) wanting to make a change that will benefit few. IF (as I mentioned in another thread) you can convince me that a MAJORITY (and I made it easy for you to get that majority -- I mean come on, 20%!) of you can vote in favor of adding back kick to the gameplay then by all means please do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 In case you missed it, I mentioned the force penalties for basic specials about 400 times in this thread and many others. I asked you to tell me (I'm going to repeat this for the 700th time) what is different other than the aesthetics and *nerfs? Pay attention little man, if you can. Also you may want to re check your assessment of the difference for a DFA, are you positive a DFA costs 50 not 25? Yep, again you prove just how ignorant you are, now go back and edit that post and deny you ever said it. So back to my initial question: Do penguins shoot out of your ass when you press forward+attack in heavy stance? Does “stairway to Heaven” play when you press the drain key? Does a Claymation Elvis run across the screen and moon you when you press the alt fire key on the repeater? Or do you get the same exact results as Jedi Outcast? Do me a favor, you have proven your are nothing more than an ignorant fool and a noob with no knowledge of game play, just get the hell out of here and go debate yoda vs. dooku in the swamp with the rest of the kids. btw in case you missed it I'll quote myself to make my comment on "85%" clear as crystal: And to clarify my comment about it being the same code, is every string of code identical? Of course not, but it was built off the last game and is not an entirely new build and when I refer to it being "85% the same" I am referring to content and mechanics, not every miniscule line of code in the build. You could totally change the code in the build but if the content and mechanics remain the same, the overwhelming majority of people are rational enough to grasp it's the same thing. I could de decompile, alter a few lines of code and recompile Jedi Outcast but if it plays the same are we still going to call it a new game? And when as proven above, all the powers, all but one gun, and all but two new stances are identical to the way the were in the previous game that pretty much makes up about 80-85% of the multiplayer dynamics. The maps and few new additions making up the 20-25% remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff 42 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! I get all of the same results form all the guns that are in outcast and academy (sniper delay withstanding) Actually the sniper nerfing isn't the only change to guns... the DEMP now briefly disables people's weapons when you hit them so it's in fact more useful now... the trip mine secondary mode is now a proximity mine instead of a timed explosive... the lack of a hitbox means it's harder to hit people with any gun, much harder with some (like the pistol) - so you could argue that guns in general have been nerfed to a certain extent. There might be a few other minor changes, but I guess none of this really affects your basic point very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! In case you missed it, I mentioned the force penalties for basic specials about 400 times in this thread and many others. Then you just proved that the code is not the same, nor is it any where near 85%+ LIKE YOU CLAIMED. YOU claimed it, not me. Originally posted by the weiner dog! Also you may want to re check your assessment of the difference for a DFA, are you positive a DFA costs 50 not 25? Could be. Could it also be 12.5, or 75? Originally posted by the weiner dog! Yep, again you prove just how ignorant you are, now go back and edit that post and deny you ever said it. Why should I deny I said it? You are proving yourself to be more the fool every time you type on this forum. I have nothing to lose. Originally posted by the weiner dog! So back to my initial question: Do penguins shoot out of your ass when you press forward+attack in heavy stance? Does “stairway to Heaven” play when you press the drain key? Does a Claymation Elvis run across the screen and moon you when you press the al fire on the repeater? Or do you get the same results as Jedi Outcast? Leaving in the drivel for the next moderator to see... "Move along. Nothing to see here!" Originally posted by the weiner dog! Do me a favor, you have proven your are nothing more than an ignorant fool and a noob with no knowledge of game play, just get the hell out of here and go debate yoda vs. dooku in the swamp with the rest of the kids. I AM debating with the kids. Seriously, I know 10 year olds with a better grasp of English and argumentation than you. I take that back. I will not compare you to a kid. That would be insulting to kids. Whatever, the whiner dog. You may assert all you want. You are nothing more than an ignorant fool who cannot even back up the most basic assertion that is the easiest to prove: "JO = 85% code JA". If you are going to assert rediculous claims don't be surprised when you are called on other claims. *snore* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Jeff 42 Actually the sniper nerfing isn't the only change to guns... the DEMP now briefly disables people's weapons when you hit them so it's in fact more useful now... the trip mine secondary mode is now a proximity mine instead of a timed explosive... the lack of a hitbox means it's harder to hit people with any gun, much harder with some (like the pistol) - so you could argue that guns in general have been nerfed to a certain extent. There might be a few other minor changes, but I guess none of this really affects your basic point very much. my basic point has been all along it's the same stuff just nerfed or tweaked in a few rare cases (most are nerfs like you said). glad someone else can see this. But I will admit guns are not my thing as far as "serious" use goes so there are bound to be a lot of tiny details I will miss. I know you guys are not happy about the zoom delay and I had to laugh my ass off when I found out the rocket bug from jk2 was still in ja. Just another example of how JA is just JO with a new coat of paint and some nerfs. How many other "new" games keep the exact same individual bugs from sequel to sequel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 FurionStormrage , I'm not going to argue with you anymore because you can't even answer my basic questions, hell you even tried to use one of the minor changes I pointed out long ago as a valid answer because you were too much of a =) to come up with your own. Let's *say no line of code is the same between the two. Not a single line. All the stuff that was ported over from Jedi Outcast (guns saber swings and powers) still overwhelmingly remains identical to the way they were with the exception of a few nerfs and penalties. Some lines of code may be different but it's built on the same engine, the stuff does the exact same thing it did in that previous engine and responds in the exact same way. Everyone can realize this, why can't you? Quake 1 > Quake 2 > Quake 3 Different games, same "content" (rocket launchers etc.) but TOTALLY different. Jedi Knight > Jedi Outcast Different games, same content (saber, absorb, grip etc.) but totally different. Jedi Outcast > Jedi Academy same content, was ported over directly on the same engine and it functions identical to how it did on the previous engine with the exception of a few nerfs. By your "definition" of what makes a new game were 1.03 and 1.04 sequels as well? I mean they changed a lot more in those patches that got changed from 1.04 Outcast to Academy. ??? Yoda vs. dooku Let's debate on something more your pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! All the stuff that was ported over from Jedi Outcast (guns saber swings and powers) still overwhelmingly remains identical to the way they were with the exception of a few nerfs and penalties. *sigh* If they are different games, there's no nerfing. Why can't you understand that? To nerf: Remove something from THE game. Not a sequel. From the SAME GAME. To continue to call them nerfs is in error. Originally posted by the weiner dog! Some lines of code may be different but it's built on the same engine, the stuff does the exact same thing it did in that previous engine and responds in the exact same way. BUT THEY DON'T WORK IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY OR YOUR PRECIOUS KICK WOULD BE AVAILABLE? Talk about shooting down your own argument... Originally posted by the weiner dog! Everyone can realize this, why can't you? *sigh* Yet another pathetic Appeal to Belief: Everyone believes this; it must be true? Originally posted by the weiner dog! Quake 1 > Quake 2 > Quake 3 Different games, same "content" (rocket launchers etc.) but TOTALLY different. Jedi Knight > Jedi Outcast Different games, same content (saber, absorb, grip etc.) but totally different. True. Originally posted by the weiner dog! Jedi Outcast > Jedi Academy same content, was ported over directly on the same engine and it functions identical to how it did on the previous engine with the exception of a few nerfs. Ported? No. Not the same engine. I wouldn't even expect you to understand what makes it different. Why? Because you have refused to since this all started. Originally posted by the weiner dog! By your "definition" of what makes a new game were 1.03 and 1.04 sequels as well? Did you pay money for the patch? Did you no longer need the original JO CD for the patches to work? No? Then they're not sequels. Originally posted by the weiner dog! I mean they changed a lot more in those patches that got changed from 1.04 Outcast to Academy. Your, as yet not validated, claim. THIS IS THE CLAIM YOU WERE CHALLENGED ON. THIS IS THE CLAIM YOU HAVE AS YET TO PROVE. Originally posted by the weiner dog! ??? Yoda vs. dooku Implication: No one will win this? How 'bout you refuse to even start... Originally posted by the weiner dog! Let's debate on something more your pace. Then let someone with a clue step forward because I have no pace debating with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megafu Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 wow, this is fun isn't it! not taking sides on this, just thought i'd throw in a cent or 2. i think when wiener said that JA= 85% JO he didn't mean exact code. That would take some time to actually calculate. I think he meant an approximation in the end product. For instance, to all who program( i'm sure there are many of you out there), we know that there are many ways to code something to get the same result. ie. Comp Sci 101 add ten number together and output to screen. there are many ways to figure out this algorithm, the difference being that one solution might be more efficient than others. Same result, different approach. As for JA the overall impression to MP, is that it looks, feels and plays a lot like JO. Maybe that was the error in LA/Raven to not use a more updated engine and decide to improve on the previous one. What lacks in JA is creativity. Somthing my friend and i would do in JO was i would grip someone, and he'd come flying by with an air backstab. It was hilarious and fun. Now it would take 5 of those to kill someone, losing it's appeal and fun factor. ok, enough of me... back to the joust.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jello123 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 To nerf: Remove something from THE game. Not a sequel. From the SAME GAME. To continue to call them nerfs is in error. Kinda funny how you make up bullsh*t meanings for words that don't exist. Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Good points, megafu. Unlike JO, we had an SP demo BEFORE the game was released. If people thought it was SOOOOO unoriginal, what exactly were you expecting when you got the game? I mean, come on! Get Real! NEVER expect that the game you are going to get is better than the demo. Geez. That's why all this pathetic whining is pointless. You had plenty of opportunities to challenge your viewpoint. If you chose not to download the demo before buying the game, well, that's not my problem. Silly car analogy: You buy a 1998 Civic. You turn it in and buy the 1999 Civic. You expect it to be EXACTLY like the 1998 Civic. You refused to test drive the car. Whose fault is it when you find out (just pulling something out of my hat) that the suspension of the 1998 was a double-wishbone suspension and the 1999 used McPherson struts. Now it takes you three weeks to figure out how to outrun a cop. Is that your fault or the car makers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by [div3rse.jello] Kinda funny how you make up bullsh*t meanings for words that don't exist. Haha. I guess you never look at a thesaurus. nerf = delta delta = a change A change implies an object to change from. You receive JA. IT IS NOT JO. There is no CHANGE from your original copy of JA (JA != patched JO by legal definition) Therefore, no nerf; no change from previous (non-existant) game As in, you have the very first iteration of JA. Clear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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