Luc Solar Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Did you know that this guy from the bible, Simson, took a bone from the ground and with that bone he killed 1000 filiestea..filishtheh.. ah..you know, the guys who are nowadays referred to as "palestineans". 1.000 people. Killed. With a bone. 1.000 soldiers that were out to kill him. He hammered them all down with a bone. Is the bible the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Btw - a palestinian whore seduced Simson (or whatever his name was) and cut his l337 hair thus making him lose his Strenght. Then Simson prayed and got enough strenght to make the roof fall on a ****load of palestinians killing them all. God had answered Simson's prayer. All palestinians died. Great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I could compair Christ to another famous guy whom the government of his time feared because he could start an uprising against it: Charles Manson. Both were charismatic and had a definent following. Both were put down(though Manson can't be killed by the government, just imprisoned). Both had followers killing people(don't give me that crap that Christ didn't. He had an entire war). What does this show I believe in? Simple. If Manson could convince people that he was a great guy, why couldn't someone who lived when peoples minds were even MORE simple than today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegietto Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 Did you know that this guy from the bible, Simson, took a bone from the ground and with that bone he killed 1000 filiestea..filishtheh.. ah..you know, the guys who are nowadays referred to as "palestineans". 1.000 people. Killed. With a bone. 1.000 soldiers that were out to kill him. He hammered them all down with a bone. Is the bible the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth? i know is it true i mean how could a man kill 1,000 men with a bone it just hard to believe i mean they would surround him and kill him their is just no way Kain i don't know what is wrong with u but Charles Manson is crazy and Christ did some werid stuff but he is not crazy or insane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Did you know that this guy from the bible, Simson, took a bone from the ground and with that bone he killed 1000 filiestea..filishtheh.. ah..you know, the guys who are nowadays referred to as "palestineans". 1.000 people. Killed. With a bone. 1.000 soldiers that were out to kill him. He hammered them all down with a bone. Is the bible the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Btw - a palestinian whore seduced Simson (or whatever his name was) and cut his l337 hair thus making him lose his Strenght. Then Simson prayed and got enough strenght to make the roof fall on a ****load of palestinians killing them all. God had answered Simson's prayer. All palestinians died. Great. 1. his name is samson 2. It doesnt mean samson was the ONLY one doing all of that, ive thought about it, and either the palestinians were stupid, or he had help. For instance the people of israel has song "Saul has killed thousands, but david has killed tens of thousands" now, it is pretty amazing that david could single handedly kill over 10,000 people, whether it was spaced out, or at one time. The thing ive figured out is, he didnt actually do it, but he was more like the general commanding men, with his strategy he killed tens of thousands. (he normally has a large group of people with him) i think thats what happend with samuel. 3. your ending is wrong. 4. are you sayng its impossible to break a building down.... read the way he did it, he got between the main 2 polls, and pushed them aside, now, back then people did lots of hard labor (today we only use like 10% of the muscle the people had in the 1800s) and maybe the polls were already weakend. There were over a thousand people on top of the building. Imagine, all of that wieght mostly supported by 2 poles. why post about the bible, and not research it...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 What does this show I believe in? Simple. If Manson could convince people that he was a great guy, why couldn't someone who lived when peoples minds were even MORE simple than today? werent those people high? he also said he believes every man is jesus. Both were charismatic and had a definent following. Both were put down(though Manson can't be killed by the government, just imprisoned). Both had followers killing people(don't give me that crap that Christ didn't. He had an entire war). what war? id love to hear about it. definate following? 12 people? true, thousands followed him, but they werent really "followers" they were just there, sort of like church. in the end, they all turned on him. When did christ go against the government? If he was that bad, why did judas kill himself after he betrayed Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegietto Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 hey all jokes aside my dog is name samson but only it is spelled sampson. I know he was not the only one in the fight, because it is impossible for one man to beat 1,000 men, that just can't happened. "Saul has killed thousands, but david has killed tens of thousands" now, it is pretty amazing that david could single handedly kill over 10,000 people, whether it was spaced out, or at one time. The thing ive figured out is, he didnt actually do it, but he was more like the general commanding men, with his strategy he killed tens of thousands. (he normally has a large group of people with him) i think thats what happend with samuel. Now i don't see how David did it either i mean he has lucky to live i mean if it really happened. I mean he killed alot of men to do and he couldn't do it i mean for real that is very impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 David always had a huge group of people following him, thousands i think. David was the leader... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegietto Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 i know he had more people but he was strong by himself i mean after beating goliath everyone followed hm cause they throught hey he beat a giant he can beat anyone so they joined him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 WHAT WAR?!?! WHAT WAR?!?!?!?!?! The Crusades anyone? Yes, they were the followers of Christ, CHRISTIANS. And whats to say all of the apostles weren't high? The Bible? I never said Christ went against the government, PER SE. The Romans were worried that Christ would rise against them. And didn't the Manson family bail on Charley in the end too? Oh yea, THEY DID. They even testified against him in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 The Crusades anyone? Yes, they were the followers of Christ, CHRISTIANS. Kain, you act as if we didnt already know this. Im ganna leave the catholic thingy alone... and try it a different way. whether what i said was true or not, it wont stop people from thinking christians are evil, and started a huge war, and killed thousands... so its not worth wasting bandwidth to post it again. So, is christ responsible? Just because someone sins doesnt mean its God's fault, or christ's. They set rules up that said not to do this. It doesnt mean the religion is bad, because a certain member (or thousands of members) does something wrong. If that were the case, every group, organisation, religion etc isnt fit to be around. why? Because everyone does immoral acts. From what ive read about the crusades, it started with a guy named peter the hermit (dont know how true this story is) anyways, he would preach, and get everybody into a religious fury... anyways, somewhere along the line things happend, and they started running out of supplies and they started stealing from peoples houses, and doing wrong deeds such as these.(thou shalt not steal) when they ran out of supplies, someone said they could kill the "enemies of God." the church did not approve of this. Anyways, like i said, i dont know how true it is, nor did i bother to read the whole thing. Enemies of God could simply mean someone who doesnt believe the way they do. I could believe in God but not the same way a cathlic does (for those that know me, know im strictly stuck to my bible) so i guess i *could* have been killed for that, but im not sure. Something to keep in mind that just because someone says they are a christian, doesnt mean they are a christian. If you dont believe it, are you a christian. It comes down to what a christian is. If you look in the bible, it says the only way to the father is through the son. So you must go to the son, to get to God. The son is christ (you probably know that) so basically you pray to christ (and mean it) and accept that he did die for you, and that you have sinned (who hasnt?) and that you are sorry (you have to acutally be sorry) and that you want him to be part of your life. Then you can say your a christian. The quick thing i just wrote up doesnt have to be what a person prays, just something simular to that. Just because your a christian doesnt mean your going definatly going to heaven without a shadow of a doubt. The bible says you must be batpised (thats not hard) but it also says only the people who do the will of God can get to heaven. So basically, do what God says, and your good to go. Now thats how it is, if you look through your bible. Your allowed to believe whatever you want. But still over this whole crusade thing, if they were christians, then is christ responisble for there actions. Are any other christians who did not participate in those events responisble? Are we to take there sins as our own? And whats to say all of the apostles weren't high? The Bible? Nothing says they werent. But then again, how do i know your not high? If they were, they wouldnt have all seen the same thing, and i dont think they would have remembered what happend too well (i dont know, ive never been high) even so, if they were hallucinating then it would be impossible for 2 people to have the same hallucination. Its not possible. And didn't the Manson family bail on Charley in the end too? Oh yea, THEY DID. They even testified against him in court. 1. Judas killed himself after he betrayed christ (why, he just gained a large ammount of money, if christ was that bad, he should have been proud of himself. 2. The crowd was bribed, by the leading preists and older leaders, to choose barabbas over christ. I never said Christ went against the government, PER SE. The Romans were worried that Christ would rise against them. The romans *might* have been scared, but of what? Christ preached about peace, not rebellion. He even supported them in certain ways! Now, the king of Israel was scared, because of the prophesy that jesus would be a king, the thing is, he was not king of israel, but heaven. Thats why judiasm started, they dont believe christ was the messiah, so they decided to continue waiting for the messiah (or an earthly king) ...and it's great to see a Christian willing to discuss matters of the Bible PROPERLY with a 'non-believer'. I hope other christians on these boards will follow your example in future... Theres a right and wrong way? Or is it, a way you prefer, and a way you dont prefer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Nothing says they werent. But then again, how do i know your not high? Never said I wasn't. That isn't even a relavent point. If anything, thats a cheap shot. If they were, they wouldnt have all seen the same thing, and i dont think they would have remembered what happend too well (i dont know, ive never been high) even so, if they were hallucinating then it would be impossible for 2 people to have the same hallucination. Its not possible. You'd be surprised actually. Of course, you've never been high. 1. Judas killed himself after he betrayed christ (why, he just gained a large ammount of money, if christ was that bad, he should have been proud of himself. Whos to say the Manson family wasn't upset after they testified? Oh wait, the one that testified DID retract her statement for Charley. Not quite suicide, but whatever. 2. The crowd was bribed, by the leading preists and older leaders, to choose barabbas over christ. Money can do that people. TO ANY person. Everyone has a sum that would change their mind. And don't give me that crap that it isn't true. If someone offered you so much, you'd break. The romans *might* have been scared, but of what? Christ preached about peace, not rebellion. He even supported them in certain ways! Now, the king of Israel was scared, because of the prophesy that jesus would be a king, the thing is, he was not king of israel, but heaven. Thats why judiasm started, they dont believe christ was the messiah, so they decided to continue waiting for the messiah (or an earthly king) He could've preached whatever he wanted, but he could've started a rebellion at the drop of a hat. The whole peace thing could've been a cover. The human brain CAN do that. Wow. Now, I'll excuse myself. My beliefes have been laid down and I know from experience that people like you refuse to see the wisdom in it. The Bible has that effect on...yep. Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloseTheBlastDo Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 ...concerning debating me properly Theres a right and wrong way? Or is it, a way you prefer, and a way you dont prefer? The right way to debate me - or anybody else - is to go through each point the other person has made and - well - debate it! You have barely touched directly on 10% of the points I have made. Instead you have gone off on wild thoughts of fancy full of exxaduration and ignoring totally the fact that I have disupted many of your arguments MANY times... You are not interested in debating. You are only interested in convincing. And I'm not going to waste my time going round in circles with you anymore Luke... To look at 'rational' christian arguments - read posts by both Kurgan and Rainer511. You will find it's not the actual beliefs thats the problem - it's the ability to debate - and having the decency to at least recognise the valid points of others... Don't get me wrong - your not the only one to not debate things properly on this forum - no matter which side of which argument. I'm not trying to single you out. (For example - I'm on your side about the Crusades. I believe they show the dark side of human nature in a general sense - not specifically Christianity...) But since your asked me directly what I meant by my comments - I'm telling you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 well, thanks about the crusade thing ctbd. Money can do that people. TO ANY person. Everyone has a sum that would change their mind. And don't give me that crap that it isn't true. If someone offered you so much, you'd break. That was my point, they were convinced to ask for jesus to be crusified. It wasnt because he did something wrong. Now, I'll excuse myself. My beliefes have been laid down and I know from experience that people like you refuse to see the wisdom in it. The Bible has that effect on...yep. Nevermind. It might be wisdom, but judging one of the greatest man whoever lived and comparing him to an insane murderer is sort of.... yep. Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 It might be wisdom, but judging one of the greatest man whoever lived and comparing him to an insane murderer is sort of.... yep. Nevermind. Everyone has different definitions of 'the greatest man who ever lived'. Everyone in the Manson family believed Charles was the greatest. The apostles thought Christ was. The Hebews thought Moses was. Muslims believed Muhammad was. The same runs true the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegietto Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 Kain you our right everyone has their own opinion, i mean yes they all think someone else is the greatest but most people think Christ is but i don't understand what the Manson family has to do with Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 The Manson family thought that Charles Manson was the greatest man that had ever lived. Christians believe that Jesus was the greatest man that had ever lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegietto Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 i know but the manson family was a bunch of freaks when christians our normal people who live their lifes one day at a time they don't going killing people because they think god wants them too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Everyone has different definitions of 'the greatest man who ever lived'. Everyone in the Manson family believed Charles was the greatest. The apostles thought Christ was. The Hebews thought Moses was. Muslims believed Muhammad was. The same runs true the other way. Kain, i said one of the greates people who ever lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by vegietto i know but the manson family was a bunch of freaks when christians our normal people who live their lifes one day at a time they don't going killing people because they think god wants them too You're judging by our standards today. The Romans probably thought Jesus was leading a bunch of freaks around as well. And to be fair, Christians have killed when they think God wants them to as well. (Crusades anyone?) So maybe the comparison is not so awful at all. ***Disclaimer*** The above comment is, in no way, intended as an attack on Christians or Christianity. I'm simply helping to validate an analysis and comparison. Please do not attack me saying "Not ALL Christians are warlike!" Because I know this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Kain, i said one of the greates people who ever lived. I know what you said. And thats still a matter of opinion. To someone like me (and not atheists, I mean someone with a mindset toward this like mine), he was nothing more than a nut-job with charisma, the same as Manson. To a Christian, he was a messiah and a saviour. If someone said I was one of the greatest men to have ever lived, not everyone would agree with it. The same is true for Christ, Moses, Muhammed, and Manson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 You're judging by our standards today. The Romans probably thought Jesus was leading a bunch of freaks around as well. And to be fair, Christians have killed when they think God wants them to as well. (Crusades anyone?) So maybe the comparison is not so awful at all. ***Disclaimer*** The above comment is, in no way, intended as an attack on Christians or Christianity. I'm simply helping to validate an analysis and comparison. Please do not attack me saying "Not ALL Christians are warlike!" Because I know this.... The Romans could care less about a carpenter's son, they tried him, and said he did nothing wrong! But since it was some holiday and thousands of peopel were outside the building they didnt want to start a riot, so they asked the people who they wanted to set free, Jesus or barrabas. Some law makers convinced the people to to let barrabas go free, so they did, and then they crucified him. Also, the keyword in your statement is *THINK* i was going to point this out earlier when vegietto said it but I didnt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegietto Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 i know he doesn't kill them intentally but alot of people die for stupid things everyday of the week and i'm sorry but Charles Manson was a crazy person, a freak, he was messed up in the head very badly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 i know he doesn't kill them intentally but alot of people die for stupid things everyday If this is about people just dying, we have to die. This is something ive thought about, if we just lived forever (right now) we wouldnt need God.... When you get to heaven you live forever, but only because God saved you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegietto Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 If this is about people just dying, we have to die. This is something ive thought about, if we just lived forever (right now) we wouldnt need God.... When you get to heaven you live forever, but only because God saved you. i know but why die of starvation i mean that is the worst death to me i think it should be of old age or because u died in battle, i mean i know we have to die someday but not like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Am I God? Do I know his reasoning? Who is anyone to question God? Who knows, maybe they did something wrong, (im not saying they did, but who knows) an example (aids) My view is, is that the reason aids came out was because of sexual sin. If people could control themselves better, it wouldnt get spread. Either way, i also think everything happens for a reason. That reason being, an event that will happen in the future (The Revelation) Like the bible says, things need to happen before the end. This world isnt ready for the end. Yes, yes, before you start talking about when people said it was supposed to happen... dont. I know people have said it was going to happen in the 1970s and the year 2000 (mainly because they thought jesus was 2000 yrs old then, but really he was 1997 yrs, he is 2000 now because he was born 4-3 BC) Anyways, the bible says no one knows when it will happen (so people wont slack off, and for other reasons) So when someone says Christ is coming back next week, next year, in ten years, etc... they dont know, so dont bother to listen to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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