Want to help me polish up JA?

[Deadeye]

I was on another thread for a few days, and it got me thinking. There's a few things we can do to improve JA. I'm talking mods here!

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112637

 

I am a environmental/texture artist. I worked on Elite Force 2 and am currently looking for work at another company. (They laid us all off) -There's my credentials.

 

I really only suggest that we add a couple of things.

 

1) Completely re-do Coruscant. It's ugly and looks nothing like Coruscant. I'll do it, but I don't know Radiant. If you can convert 3D MAX files to .bsp. or can import into Radiant, then we're set.

 

2) Add NPCs to populate the levels like Coruscant, and Tatooine. Also the Hutt level where you free prisoners. -Not every one in there should be hostile. Like the Kapaa the Hutt level in MOTS. In fact we should make that Hutt level bigger.

 

Even the enemy factories should have some innocent workers, or something.

 

If we can do it, it would be nice to have killing too many of these innocents automatically make youre choice as to weather to turn to the dark side later in the game. That shouldn't be too hard right?

 

 

Thoses are just a few ideas. We can get more specific if enough people want to join up. It's not really a total conversion, just a few little additions. Shouldn't be too hard

[TK-8252]

I'm already planning to add and edit a whole bunch of NPCs...

 

I had a thought. How about giving the Imperial R2 and R5 units a stun baton like R2-D2 used in RotJ on an Ewok and that Kowakian-Monkey-Lizard on Jabba's sail barge. And then have them be enemys so they will seek you out and attack you.

[Deadeye]

Good idea, that way, you're weapon-less for a short period of time.

[TK-8252]

Originally posted by RSloan76

Good idea, that way, you're weapon-less for a short period of time.

What do you mean? Why would giving the enemy droids a weapon take away your weapon?

[StormHammer]

Well, you already know my feelings about JA. I think there is definite room for improvement, which I've touched on in other threads. It needs more depth, better design in some of the levels, and more compelling sub-plots for the mini-missions.

 

NPCs are a must for some of the levels, and if someone can model them, I can probably have a go at skinning them, now I've started to cut my teeth on the DF Mod.

 

Straight off, it shouldn't be too hard to import the Ugnaughts and 'mine worker prisoners' from Jedi Outcast, along with any others deemed appropriate.

 

I tend to agree about Coruscant. It just didn't feel like the Coruscant of the movies.

 

I think the Blenjeel level could be re-envisioned as well, if you had to help some 'living' survivors get to your ship.

 

As for the Rancor vs Prisoners level...it would be nice to actually visit the Hutt beforehand - and I agree, it should be larger and more sprawling like Ka'Pa's palace in MotS, with 'neutral' characters.

 

So yeah, if others are interested in 'improving' JA, I'm all for it.

 

Give Kyle a new outfit, for starters...

[ExcelsioN]

I agree, JA could definetly do with several improvements. Perhaps in an expansion?

 

There are several points that could be improved upon:

 

Siege Mode - Bot support (like Battlefield 1942), and MUCH more maps. 3 just isn't enough.

 

Enemy AI - Stormtroopers still just stand there and stare at you (even in Jedi Master difficulty; see below)

 

Difficulty - Overall, I found JA Jedi Master fairly easy compared with JO Jedi Master.

 

Graphics - I understand that the engine isn't that capable to keep up with the graphics standards of, say, Doom 3, but there is some room for improvement. Im not saying that the engine is bad though.

 

Missions - Level design was excellent, but levels like the Rancor level need to be longer. Also, different endings to each mission (like the last 1) would be great.

 

Having the choice of missions was excellent, Well done Raven!

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by Excelsion

I agree, JA could definetly do with several improvements. Perhaps in an expansion?

 

The idea behind this thread (correct me if I'm wrong RSloan76), is to assemble a team of fanatics to make a Mod to introduce perceived improvements.

 

Having the choice of missions was excellent, Well done Raven!

 

I agree...the ability to choose was excellent. It's a shame some of the missions themselves were not very exciting.

[Deadeye]

What do you mean? Why would giving the enemy droids a weapon take away your weapon?

 

In siege mode I belive if you get hit with the Demp gun, you cannot fire or swing for a few secs. I think that effect would be good in the form of a stun rod from a droid.

 

 

The idea behind this thread (correct me if I'm wrong RSloan76), is to assemble a team of fanatics to make a Mod to introduce perceived improvements.

 

Yes that's right. Just a few improvements. Now we could go on forever talking about major improments, but I think we should keep it simple, so that it can be done. Do it one level at a time, and make them what they should have been. I don't know if changing the structure of the game would be a feasible idea.

 

Straight off, it shouldn't be too hard to import the Ugnaughts and 'mine worker prisoners' from Jedi Outcast, along with any others deemed appropriate.

 

Good idea. We can also use all the jedi from JO, and JA, and change up some textures so that they all dont look alike. We should be able to canibalize lots of textures from JO, and JA.

Heh. After all, "JA has over 2000 possible character combinations!"

 

 

As for the Rancor vs Prisoners level...it would be nice to actually visit the Hutt beforehand - and I agree, it should be larger and more sprawling like Ka'Pa's palace in MotS, with 'neutral' characters.

 

Exactly what I had in mind. Maybe we could simply add onto the existing map, so we don't have to redo the whole thing.

 

Also, the hutt would take your weapons, so you'd have to use force powers to get outta there. Why in all of JA was there only one time you used your Force Pull to pull a lever? It's always cool to use the force to get out of a sticky situation that a non-force user could not. -Exaclty why it takes a Jedi to rescue all the prisoneers. You would have to use force run, and sight to keep away from the Rancor (like in JA) but you'd also have to find the switch to get you out of there. Maybe a combination of door releases with a touch of using the old jedi mind trick on a gurad to open the last door for you.

 

Now that I've got my creative juices flowing, I think I will write a desing document for this hutt/rancor level. I'll let you all know when I'm done.

 

In the mean time keep the ideas coming, but make sure it's simple and do-able.

[StormHammer]

Just as a refresher, these are the levels in the game...

 

Yavin - straightforward.

 

1st Tier

 

Tatooine 1 (Mos Eisley) - not enough to do, needs NPCs - and I'd be more interested in going with Kyle at first to learn some info, then get sent back to the docking port.

Tatooine 2 (Sandcrawler) - linear but okay - but it would be nice to look inside the settlement buildings - and maybe encounter a few people huddled inside.

 

The 2 Tatooine levels should have been combined into one mission, IMHO.

 

Bakura (defuse the bombs) - level was okay - can't think of anything to add., apart from better narrative.

Blenjeel (Merchant rescue) - definite room for improvement, like adding NPCs to rescue and escort to your ship (perhaps you pick them up and sling them over your shoulder...)

Corellia (tram) - Okay of itself, but needs NPC workers and more to do (and it might just as well have been married up with the Crime Boss level)

 

Hoth (2 levels) - mission was fine.

 

2nd Tier

 

Nar Kreeta (Rancor) - could do with a meeting with the Hutt, and things go bad from there...

Zonju V (swoop bikes) - personally, I would have placed this on Tatooine to marry up the two Tatooine missions. But that's just me.

Kril'Dor (Wedge + Gas platform) - You never get to see Wedge. :| The mission was okay, but it stands alone.

Coruscant (Assassin Droids) - doesn't look like Coruscant - too linear, no NPCs, not even any vehicles flying close by... Again, personally I would have married up the 'tram' level with this one to form a longer mission and more of a chase scenario for the Crime Lord (assuming the 'tram' level took place in Coruscant, or the Coruscant level was actually Corellia )

Dosuun (Captured) - felt a bit too contrived

 

Vjun (3 levels) (Vader's Castle - plus fight Rosh) - can't think of anything wrong with this entire mission.

 

3rd Tier

 

Chandrila (Jedi Tomb) - level was okay, apart from too many Dark Jedi to fight.

Tanaab (Mutant Rancor) - level seemed pointless

Yalara (noghri) - the Noghri don't match their description or supposed behaviour - they're supposed to be bodyguard/assassins blending into the environment....er...

Byss (Star Destroyer) - level seemed okay, if linear. Not enough TIEs to shoot down.

Ord Mantell (Boba Fett) - level was fine - but where are the NPCs?

 

Taspir III (2 levels) (Force Path choice)

Korriban (2 levels) - can't think of anything wrong with this mission either, apart from too many Dark Jedi.

[Deadeye]

I agree with you 100% on what needs to be done to each level Storm Hammer.

 

 

Tattoine 1, then swoop bike through dessert, then Tatooine 2. Add NPCs, and stir

 

I'm still working on the design doc for the hutt level. Of course I think I'm getting ahead of myself, but I tried to distinguish 'wish list' stuff, and do-able stuff.

[Deadeye]

Oh I just thought of an idea. This is probably not do-able though.

 

You get to the end of the Coruscant level.

 

You open the door to the crimelord's office, and right in your face is the crimlord being gripped and held in the air.

I'm talking right in front of your face as the door opens.

 

The body falls to the floor limp, and there you see a very powerful Dark Jedi

 

Cut to cutscene:

 

He explains the worthlessness of the petty crime lord, and how he lured you here. Then you go at it.

 

-In an ideal game, this would be one of the few boss Jedi you would face. Maybe it would be do-able if we just boosted the health of an uber-cultist, and set some other force powers for him

 

 

Also it would be cool if the boss fights took place across some span of the level, like in JK1 with Maw. It would be cool to crash through glass into a crowded area, b/c you can't kill innocents, and the Dark Jedi knows this, and pushes them in your way. he can strike at you all day, and you have to make sure not to kill the innocents. Unless you're going Dark side, and then let the massacre comence!

[Tyler_Durden]

Guys, this may be asking alot, but how about inputting a first person viewpoint for the lightsaber as well as a transparent skin to go with it. That would be awesome for us disappointed first person saberists.

[Deadeye]

Ok I'm done here it is. What do you think? Since this a free forum, I don't feel right about asking people not to post ideas that expand on this idea. But I would rather spend time finding out whats do-able instead of this turing in to a wish-list, or "wouldn't it be cool if" thread. So have at it people!

 

 

** indicates an ideal scenario, and something that might be too difficult to implement into JA

 

 

Cutscene:You are reluctantly given clearance to land at the Hutt’s palace

 

Cutscene: You meet with the Hutt in his main audience chamber. You tell him how it is believed that the Hutt is holding people against their will as prisoners.

 

The Hutt makes reference to the fact that the Jedi have no authority out here. (Something implying that Luke’s Academy’s reach is not nearly as great as Luke would like –Like in the Old Rep).

 

You get more demanding about the Hutt proving himself, and you start making demands. Maybe a mind trick attempt? The Hutt laughs at you, and orders you to be taken prisoner. Gun cocking sounds go off, and you raise your hands.

 

The level starts much like the level in MOTS where you must get out of your cell, manipulating a guard. The Gamorreans need to be used.

 

**There are a few ways to get out of your cell. They all work, but have varying difficulty. This will give the player some creativity with his force useage.

 

1.Force pull the keys from the guards belt. Sneak out.

 

2.Force pull the lever that opens all cell doors. –This triggers all the guards, but the other prisoners are triggered to fight the guards. This raises an alarm and lots of guards pour in, and you must try to get out of the riot weapon-less. This is the most difficult option.

 

3.Mind trick one guard. This must be done to one guard while the other guards are out of site.

 

 

For JA: Force pull the lever for your cell. The guards have melee weapons and you have to force push them, in order to get out. You have no means to attack. One guard has a blaster pistol, which you can force pull you.

 

** On your way out of the prison area, after you trigger the guards, an alarm is raised. When you leave, you can shoot or force push or lightning (if you have it), a control panel that closes the big door and locks all the guards in. You still have guards to contend with outside, but it keeps their numbers lower.

 

You have to find a ventilation shaft to circumvent the guards coming down the hall. You must be outnumbered, and out gunned in order to make the player choose an alternative rout. You can try to fight through the hall, but it is near impossible.

The ventilation shaft simply brings you farther down the hall and you can run out the door near the end.

 

After a few small halls and/or connecting rooms, where you mind trick. (distract like Obi-Wan in ANH), the guards away, you come to a door that is guarded. You can distract the guard all day, and make him walk down the hall to investigate, but he’s got the key.

You must force pull to get the keys, then mind trick him so he doesn’t attack. Go in the room, to find your guns, and some shield belts. Your lightsaber is kept elsewhere. Now you can run through the level killing, like normal Quake III games.

 

The level has you stumble into the existing JA level via ventilation shafts, where you’re in the Rancor area. The Hutt has begun the betting, so 4 of the 16 prisoners are already out in the open.

 

Cut to original JA rancor introduction Cutscene.

 

With out your saber, and your guns being useless against the Rancor, you proceed through the level like you already do in JA.

 

Once all 16 prisoners have been set free, you have to find the Hutt, to get the one last prisoner who might have info on the Cult of Ragnos, and your lightsaber. The area leading to the Hutts Audience chamber is short.

 

Cutscene: You enter the Hutt’s audience chamber to find the Hutt with a few guards around. One guard is holding gun to the last prisoners head. You spot your lightsaber on a small table near the hutt.

 

Since the hutt is relatively young, or has forgotten the former power of the Jedi, or b/c he sees that you are just a kid. He fails to realize your force power…

 

You force pull the saber to you hand and do a long-jump-looking leap to the Hutt, and ignite your saber, and demand the release of the prisoner.

 

The Hutt tells the guards to leave the room, and now you have to prisoner.

 

One of two things can happen now:

 

1)You have to escape with the prisoner to the ship. This would be a very short sequence where you must protect the last prisoner. But this time you have your saber.

There would be a short cinematic after you leave the audience chamber of the Hutt pounding the alarm button with his fist.

 

2)The level ends and you fly off with the prisoner, and there is a cutscene where the prisoner tells you about a cult facility on Vjun or some other level where you face imperials.

[X_Fighter]

your ideas for improving jedi academy are great so here is my idea there should be cutscenes of important events in the storyline in between missions like rosh getting captured and seduced to the dark side by tavion

 

Exploration of the academy we only got to see a little bit of the academy

 

Seeing Corran, Streen and Tionne

 

More cutscenes involving the main Enemies

[mariners2001]

this is an amazing thread and I agree with all of StormHammer's thoughts. In fact, it makes me quite disappointed with the game. There was so much missed potential here.

[Deadeye]

Cameos are always cool in these games. I don't think they add much to the game at all really. Was anyone really that awestruck when Chewie came out? Or were we all like, "where's Han?"

 

Lando's appearence was a bit better since there was Billy Dee doing the voice. Even still, it was kinda blah in my opinion.

 

Hey, I just had a thought. Storm Hammer you listening? Marrying up the two Tattooine levels with a swoop ride through the dessert shouldn't be too hard right? Can we not simply replace the ground textures from the original swoop level with dessert sand ones? The rest of the rock formations are rather dessert-like.

 

Damn I wish I knew how to use Radiant. I would get on it right now.

 

-Don't tell me I need to learn, b/c I don't have time. I'm contantly working on my portfolio to get another job in the industry, since I got laid off from Ritual, and QIII games around about done.

 

The best thing would be to be able to sit down with a Radiant person, and open up those few JA maps, and let me direct how to change them. I know enough about Radiant to know that texture mapping is very simple. We could totally swap out textures to change environments. Like the one I mentioned.

 

Anyone wanna give it a try? We could add a few jawas and sand people running around in the background, and we could even add a bantha or two. It would be like Beggar's canyon (back home -heh), since we couldn't map a whole flat dessert enviro w/o ending up with invisible walls. There could be sand people on the tops of the canyon walls taking pot shots at the player, and there would be all kinds of Tatooine ambient sounds in the background.

[ExcelsioN]

Just another idea for the Tatooine levels:

 

When you first see Chewie on Tatooine (in the cutscene), he says something; to which Jaden says:

 

"Princess Leia? Wow...must be important buisness"

 

Perhaps the level could be changed to include something about Leia?

[TK-8252]

It may not seem like much to other people but I was extremely disappointed about this: NO Gamorrean Guards in the Hutt level. I mean come on, ALL Hutt's have Gamorreans as their main guards. Would it be possible to put a new Gamorrean NPC into that level as a new enemy? Maybe when the Dark Forces mod gets their configuration for the Gamorrean Guard NPC someone could "borrow" it and put it in?

[maaaaark]

how about a mission where your've got to get/steal a pod racer to take out some guy in a racer.

 

it gives you some reason to make another vehicle if nothing else:)

[[My Name Here]]

I like that idea, especially if you did something like search through the level (or perhaps go through multiple levels) searching for bounties to get money to buy a pod.

[JediLurker]

Well, if you do figure out how to do cutscenes and all that, I'd like to see a different direction taken with the main character's dialogue. One thing that bugs me about JA is the sudden change you take on when you turn to the dark side. Up until that point, the main character is more or less exactly like Luke and Kyle in his\her overall view of things. It makes for one heck of a gear shift after just one incident. The dialogue and attitude of the main character up to the point of choosing dark side or light side should have been much more neutral in my opinion. That way when your choice is made, the corresponding attitude shift doesn't seem over the top. As it is now, the complete 180 Jaden does when you go dark is almost laughable.

 

Edit: Also, as Excelsion suggested, different mission endings would go a long way toward that end as well. I'm not sure if that's a possibility or not. Something like optional objectives, for example. Each mission would have specific objectives that you would have to complete and some that you could choose to do or ignore. Like on the Rancor level, being required to save a certain number of prisoners. Saving all of them would be optional. This could lead to different mission endings if it were possible.

[X_Fighter]

An improvement for taspir

 

Jaden says rosh lured him into a trap. What trap? All I see are rosh, some boxes and nothing else there should be some stealth troopers decloaking where jaden throws the boxes when the scene where jaden throws the boxes they hit the troopers and they fall to their deaths.

 

A mission where you are pursued by bounty hunters hired by alora to dispose of you and you have to lose them. Killing them is optional so you can have two endings to that mission

 

1) You safely get to your ship and fly off the planet (if you kill the bounty hunters)

 

2) When you get to your ship you are surrounded by the bounty hunters you have a hard time beating all of them (20 against 1) when your friend comes flying in lasers blazing and helps get rid of them for you

[jadenkorr]

One thing i was a bit disapointed about was in reveiws it said about chosing what side of the force you go to well i thought it would happen a bit early. I totally agree with your ideas and i really envie you because you could actually do all that. With the speed level i think like what [My name here] said about getting money for a pod well maybe you should have to that before you get your swoop bike.

[frogbeastegg]

There are some excellent ideas in this thread

 

I would like to see a small level inserted right before you choose your new lightsabre, this level would give you the chance to try out the sabre staff and dual sabres before you choose which one to build. Currently you have to play multiplayer to try them but a small level which enables you to fight a couple of those sabre using ASP droids would allow you to make an informed choice.

 

A small courtyard in the Jedi academy would work well as an arena, a switch on the wall could summon a new ASP droid (like the ones in Vader’s fortress) each time it is pressed. There would be no time limit or enemy limit so the player can practise for as long as they want. To exit the level you could have the player walk through a clearly labelled door, this would allow the mission to count as finished instead of failed.

 

The structure could work like this:

1. Finish mission where you loose your sabre. Get told you need to build a new sabre.

2. A screen asks if you would like to try the two new sabres before you make a choice. Choosing yes takes you to the select a sabre screen. The player picks their trial sabre. Choosing no leaves the structure as it is in JA.

3. The player fights ASP droids until they are satisfied and they leave the level.

4. The player is asked if they wish to try the other sabre type. If they select yes the level reloads with the new sabre. Same practise procedure as above.

5. The player is then sent to the build your new sabre screen and makes an informed choice.

[razorace]

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to simply create new campaigns/maps instead of pimping up the old ones?