Nute Gunray Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Originally posted by RayJones after all it only a stone. nothing of importance. no drugs no weapons no bodyparts. plus they didnt do it on purpose. its not that they stole something from a museum or picked a brick out of a wall. .. a plain simple stone.. that is what i dont go with.. in my opinion noone has the right to own a stone that way. and the turkey is a society on this planet.. they are human beings like you and me.. Turkish law says don't take stones from the beach. Its value is irrelevant to the word of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Originally posted by Nute Gunray .. law says don't take stones from the beach. Its value is irrelevant to the word of the law. this seems to point out the problem that "justice" by law brings with it.. if it was a diamond from a museum the value of it would have been a matter! so the "justice" (in my eyes) would start at the point where this stonecrime is set into relation.. a penalty.. OK.. maybe.. but prison? and the law doesnt says "dont take stones from the beach" it says "dont take antique stones" .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Originally posted by RayJones this seems to point out the problem that "justice" by law brings with it.. if it was a diamond from a museum the value of it would have been a matter! so the "justice" (in my eyes) would start at the point where this stonecrime is set into relation.. a penalty.. OK.. maybe.. but prison? and the law doesnt says "dont take stones from the beach" it says "dont take antique stones" .. The penalty is jailtime. How do you know what the law says? Can you read Turkish? Can you quote for me the section of the Turkish legal code that says it says "antique" stones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 sorry but i dont know it by the words .. but this turkish law isnt my point exactly.. as you mentioned there are other countries having such laws, too.. i am talking more about the "justice" of such laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by RayJones i am talking more about the "justice" of such laws. If there is such a thing as justice, then why would justice not serve to protect the rights of the one who owns an item? Turkey is the owner of the stones, as they fall within the boundaries of Turkey (which are agreed upon by virtually every nation on Earth). How would it be unjust for Turkey to protect their rights to their stones any different than it would be for you to protect your rights to something you own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr. Cracken Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 interesting. I'd say, yes, as you do have a right to protect your property, the government has a right to protect people from stealing it's land, in tis case....stones. Kinda like if someone stole your insignifigant trinket. say.... a pen. Good lord, there's about 3 other pens you own, but it was YOUR damned pen, and you want it back/keep others from taking it. but after some thought... is Justice mearly revenge? a sugar coated term for revenge? ponder on this, i must..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Cmdr. Cracken interesting. I'd say, yes, as you do have a right to protect your property, the government has a right to protect people from stealing it's land, in tis case....stones. Kinda like if someone stole your insignifigant trinket. say.... a pen. Good lord, there's about 3 other pens you own, but it was YOUR damned pen, and you want it back/keep others from taking it. but after some thought... is Justice mearly revenge? a sugar coated term for revenge? ponder on this, i must..... pretty good thought, i would agree this and err.. seconded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Justice, I suppose, is getting what you deserve, as defined by society around you, or you yourself. Thus, whether someone got justice or not varies with the wind. Ultimate justice can really only exist if some higher power, like God, exists; because only a higher being can hold humanity to an equal standard, and only humanity's creator could have that right. So, unless you believe in God, as I see it there is no real justice. That's my rant. What's yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 the man is free now after 4 weeks in prison with murderers and so on. 14 people at 24 sqm. plust there where children in this jail for stealing food. oh.. and the stone is worthless. .. justice? humanity? adequate? .. in my eyes veeeery discussable. Originally posted by Redwing Justice, I suppose, is getting what you deserve, as defined by society around you, or you yourself. Thus, whether someone got justice or not varies with the wind. Ultimate justice can really only exist if some higher power, like God, exists; because only a higher being can hold humanity to an equal standard, and only humanity's creator could have that right. So, unless you believe in God, as I see it there is no real justice. there is no need for a higher power. there is only need for higher intelligence. mankind is still so stupid. that is why "justice" fails in so many ways. what a luck that we all will die if we dont raise our level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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