Skins WIP: lots to talk about

[Teancum]

First off, regarding the current available species:

 

Hoth Clothes:

-Trying to figure out how to move the OJP hoth clothes to the end of character selection. May just be the separate pk3s, or I may have to re-reference all icons in the shader to get a good order. Anyone know?

 

Twi'lek Female:

-6 new preset colors: gray, lt. purple, red, med. blue, lt. green, orange

-New head, based on the Alora head, comes in both variations (straight tentacles, one wrapped around head)

-2 new torsos: 1 based on the Alora model (very proud of this), and a reskin of Torso 1

 

Rodian Male:

-3 new heads: based on "New Rodian" found at pcgamemods

-Linked hands/arms to heads, so everything looks kosher

-To Do: more color selections

 

Human Female:

-A bunch of new heads, from "New heads for Jaden" at pcgamemods

-To Do: more color selections

 

Human Male:

-Small variations of heads: a medium brown hair reskin of the blone head, with/without goatee, added goatee for brown haired guy

-To Do: add a no goatee for blone guy

-To Do: more color selections

 

Kel Dor Male:

-May add a 'dark clothes' skin pack I found, since the Kel Dor is low on options

-To Do: more color selections

 

NEW Species

Chiss Male:

-Updated torso icons to reflect blue hands

 

Chiss Female:

-Updated torso icons to reflect blue hands

-To Do: more color selections

 

Zabrak Male!!!

Recieved a JA Zabrak species from Aaron Smith. I am currently working on gathering some skins for it (uses JK2 and Rosh torsos, with Maul head). If anyone has a non-tatooed skin of Maul's face, send it my way, Aaron gave me one, but I'd like to have 2-3 faces to build from. This model has some bugs, but Aaron and I will be working them out. Probably won't be done with this for a month or two. I'm excited about this one.

 

MP skins

 

Have to copy/paste the GLM into a new directory for CTF support

 

Lannik Racto:

-Created CTF support

 

Jedi J2:

-Working on this one-I personally like the Korriban variation (from the opening cutscene). Have CTF skins. Haven't done much though.

 

Reborn Boss:

-To Do:I thought some community skins would be cool for CTF. I'll be looking through jk2files.com

 

Elder/Merchant:

-To Do:Should be easy enough for CTF support -- Use the prisoner skin

 

Brown Cultist:

-To Do:Using regular cultist for CTF

 

JA style icons for all addon models probably won't get done for awhile. The Zabrak is my next big project after the other species and MP skins.

 

*Edit* I realize the filesize may be kinda big. What do you all think about an OJP_species and a OJP_mpskins separation?

[keshire]

My Yavin Bush man is a completely new species. It just needs better skins. Take a look at it.

[Teancum]

Update:

 

Racto is now done

 

Brown Cultist will have custom CTF torsos (having trouble matching red/blue color exactly). Done, but won't show up in game for some reason

 

Keshire - checking out Bush man right now -- Probaby won't use it, except for the heavy goatee, maybe. I'm trying to keep the pack very Star Warsy. It's pretty good, though.

[Marker0077]

First off I'd like to point out that we're not too concerned with skins at this point due to Cool Mods. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying stop what you are doing - far from it, I'd just like to point out that some of the OJP skins will be going in the CM skins pack along with a countless number of others, some of which are CM exclusive.

 

Another thing about this is the installer gives the user an option to move duplicate models & skins to a sub-folder in "base". This is done not only because people don't want to see the same thing twice but there is also the .menu files to take into consideration (for CPC models).

 

Another thing, MAKE SURE you do not forget to include the original authors in the credits with what you are working on, including any information they left with the material such as URLs to their website, emails, etc; etc. That's a HUGE thing. I will toss whatever it is aside if that is not there, unless it's really good, then I might go looking for it myself but the bottom line is no credits, no add. Not for CM anyways & I'm sure RA feels the same way about OJP.

Originally posted by Teancum

Hoth Clothes:

-Trying to figure out how to move the OJP hoth clothes to the end of character selection. May just be the separate pk3s, or I may have to re-reference all icons in the shader to get a good order. Anyone know?

Ravens ordering system is totally out of whack. It's not judged by date, it's not judged by size. What it *actually* is judged by, I'm not 100% sure. I think they have their own numbering system & that's done in the actual engine (at least that was the case in JK2) so there is no changing that. Normally when you do icons it follows by date but not always.

 

I'm a perfectionist myself so I understand where you are coming from but in all reality, I think this matters very little & I wouldn't worry about it.

Originally posted by Teancum

NEW Species

Chiss Male:

-Updated torso icons to reflect blue hands

 

Chiss Female:

-Updated torso icons to reflect blue hands

-To Do: more color selections

I'm going to see what I can do about changing "Species" to say "Type". Some of the models names are just too long in the CM pack. I'm not putting "Obi-Wan Kenobi Male" as the CPC name, I'd rather just have it read the name alone under a "type" category (since naming a species obi would look lame).

 

Anyways, unless the Chiss Female is using an actual female body, I more than likely won't be adding it to CM. FYI.

Originally posted by Teancum

Zabrak Male!!!

Recieved a JA Zabrak species from Aaron Smith. I am currently working on gathering some skins for it (uses JK2 and Rosh torsos, with Maul head). If anyone has a non-tatooed skin of Maul's face, send it my way, Aaron gave me one, but I'd like to have 2-3 faces to build from. This model has some bugs, but Aaron and I will be working them out. Probably won't be done with this for a month or two. I'm excited about this one.

Depends on the model, there's been a couple of different Maul models. If it's the Cheshire Maul model you are referring to, I believe the model came with an unpainted version. Either way, there are a variety of reskins for that model & I'm sure you can find 2 or 3 at JK2Files.com. If you can't, let me know & I'll email it to you (or a link).

 

I more than likely will not be adding this model mainly because I already have this myself & I am considering adding a hooded version to the model, as well as changing the body. That's still on the drawing board but either way, I have this already; So unless you are doing something new that can be added onto it, it won't be getting added to CM.

 

Although, if you want to assist me with the Maul model I am working on, I think that would be fine. Between what you have & what I have, I think we can produce a better Maul than either one of us would have done alone.

Originally posted by Teancum

MP skins

 

Have to copy/paste the GLM into a new directory for CTF support

No you don't. Take the reborn model for example, just name the skins "default_boss", "red_boss", etc; etc. & make icons for it. They will all run out of the same model folder just fine.

 

Default-type skins can stay hidden, which some will be in CM like clannie skins & personal skins, but when it comes to red & blue skins, they *MUST* be on the menus to work. FYI.

Originally posted by Teancum

Lannik Racto:

-Created CTF support

 

Jedi J2:

-Working on this one-I personally like the Korriban variation (from the opening cutscene). Have CTF skins. Haven't done much though.

 

Reborn Boss:

-To Do:I thought some community skins would be cool for CTF. I'll be looking through jk2files.com

 

Elder/Merchant:

-To Do:Should be easy enough for CTF support -- Use the prisoner skin

 

Brown Cultist:

-To Do:Using regular cultist for CTF

I think the hidden skins are already available in the OJP skins pack. It was the main purpose for it to begin with.

Originally posted by Teancum

The Zabrak is my next big project after the other species and MP skins.

I don't mean to "rain on your parade" or anything man but I'm telling you that after CM is released, people will more than likely roll with that. I'd just hate to see you go through the work for something that's only going to get used until CM: SP A comes out.

 

My contact info & site URL & all that stuff is in my sig. There are some promo screenies in one of the news posts on the site, check it out. You'll see what I mean.

Originally posted by Teancum

*Edit* I realize the filesize may be kinda big. What do you all think about an OJP_species and a OJP_mpskins separation?

I had to do quite a few things to cut the filesize down. I reduced the texture quality to 7 on the Jasc Paint Shop Pro scale (I normally use Adobe, I just use Jasc for saving), I converted all stereo sounds to mono (which they're supposed to be in the first place), I removed a ton of duplicates, I changed all skins that already had models (that didn't need custom sounds) to run out of the existing models folder, etc; etc.

 

After it was all said & done, I cut the filesize down 2/3s from the original size & it's not only smaller but it has more sounds, more skins, & tons & tons of bug fixes for these various models & skins.

 

To answer the question though, yes - absolutely; All new models should go into a totally different pack. You should have one be a "Models" pack & one be a "Skins" pack.

[Teancum]

Wow, that was way too much to read. lol First off, how does cool mods relate to OJP? It sounds pretty cool, but if it's not actually part of OJP, then I'd prefer to still submit mine to OJP and wait until it's added to the skins pack. I'm not trying to burst your bubble either, but what you're doing sounds different than what I'm planning. I don't really want recognizeable characters on the creation menu in normal singleplayer. I can't picture Obi-Wan at the Jedi Academy, which is why I'm keeping my pack to species only. I also have some skins which I have done myself, so it would an exclusive submission to OJP.

 

As far as credit to others, everything I have placed into the pk3 has been added to my credits. Don't worry about that, I've been editing games since JK1.

 

Thanks for the tip on being able to keep my hidden colored skins in the same folder as the original model. That helps a lot. The only hidden MP skin that was added was Racto, and that was default only.

 

As far as the Zabrak goes, I already have another custom model ready to be weighted. I only have Milkshape, but Aaron may be able to weight this in a month or so. It has 5 torsos (4 human, and the standard JK2 torso, for ease of adding skins), including hoth, 3 heads, and 2 legs, as well as things like a holster, chest pad, and arm pockets (from the merc model) that can be turned off/on. I looked in the zip for Cheshire's Maul model, didn't find a blank, so I'd appreciate it if you did send me that blank you have -- to smmelton@iupui.edu .

 

Regarding file size: I think I'll do some of the things you're doing to drop size, but as far as sounds go, so far there aren't any new ones, since the MP skins are defaults, and the species don't need new ones.

 

I probably will just release this on it's own if OJP doesn't want it, but I assumed that it was a 'submit it, and if it's worth putting in, we will'. I don't understand why:

 

we're not too concerned with skins at this point due to Cool Mods

 

Not trying to start a fight. I just thought OJP was different, more for stuff like hidden skins, and a new species compilation. Other stuff can be downloaded in other's packs, such as Cool Mods.

[Marker0077]

I've been modding all night so please forgive me if I don't make sense every here & there. I'm really tired atm...

Originally posted by Teancum

...how does cool mods relate to OJP?

There's alot of stuff in CM that I can't submit to OJP just because it's not solely mine, now I plan on pimping the OJP name off with the project & getting more people interested, then after the release & I've gotten everyones attention with it, I plan on asking the authors to permit me to contribute their work into OJP.

 

As far as my work goes, I plan on adding it to the project. I'm in the process of getting new animations going which will be used in OJP supported projects such as Movie Battles, OJP Enhanced, & Action Jedi Knight (backburner mod of mine).

 

So to answer the question, CM is apart of OJP & vice versa.

Originally posted by Teancum

I'd prefer to still submit mine to OJP and wait until it's added to the skins pack.

There seems to be a bit of miscommunication, all I was trying to say before was you might not want to spend all that time working on the Maul model or at least not alone. I'd be willing to show you what I've got & what I have in mind but it's too long of a thing to go into detail here, that's what IMs are for.

 

As for the skins, I was just trying to offer you tips. You said you were going to add a whole new model folder for the reborn boss skin to be added to the UI menus which is totally unneccessary.

Originally posted by Teancum

I don't really want recognizeable characters on the creation menu in normal singleplayer.

Who said anything about SP? I'm referring to the CPC (Custom Player Classes) menus. I have an Obi-Wan, an Anakin Skywalker, a Mace Windu, & a Qui-Gon Jinn that all uses the same body so all of their outfits are interchangable with optional robes & whatnot. I need to change the head on the Anakin model & convert the models themselves over to JK3 but aside from that, that portion of the pack is done.

Originally posted by Teancum

I also have some skins which I have done myself, so it would an exclusive submission to OJP.

Like I said before, OJP is apart of CM & CM is apart of OJP. If it's in OJP, it might get added to CM. Depends on a few things. If someone doesn't want their stuff in there then I'll obviously take it out.

Originally posted by Teancum

As far as the Zabrak goes...

I have 3DS Max 5 & I can probably get those models in-game for you. I'm used to using Milkshape & I just got 3DS not too long ago but it's alot better than Milkshape by far.

 

When you say 5 torsos, 3 heads, etc; etc. are you referring to skins or actual meshes? If it's actual meshes, you need to watch your polycount man. I'm not sure on all the details because I am somewhat new to the modeling scene, but I do know high polycounts cause slow animations.

 

I'll email you regarding the Maul stuff.

Originally posted by Teancum

I probably will just release this on it's own if OJP doesn't want it, but I assumed that it was a 'submit it, and if it's worth putting in, we will'. I don't understand why:

eeyah, you're misinterpreting what I said or I just said it wrong. It's not a "we don't want it" kind of thing, it's just that due to CM, skins just aren't a high priority for us, that's all.

Originally posted by Teancum

Not trying to start a fight.

Good cuz you'd prolly kick my arse. :-)

Originally posted by Teancum

I just thought OJP was different, more for stuff like hidden skins, and a new species compilation.

Alright, let me clarify on this a bit. OJP is a developers union among other things like a friendly file resource. Basically, you share your work with us, we share our work with you & don't have to worry about someone complaining about how you went off & used their work or whatever the case may be.

 

As long as you understand that what you submit to OJP is not EVER to be removed, & you give credit where credit is due, you are free to use the material that we provide.

Originally posted by Teancum

Other stuff can be downloaded in other's packs, such as Cool Mods.

Let me make another clarification. You remember in JK2 how you would go & play online & someone would be using a skin but you didn't have it so all you could see was Kyle & it got lame looking at Kyle all the time? I fix that among a ton of other things. Cool Mods is a project of various packs. The best of the best made better.

 

Basically, I take the best material out there, I make as many fixes to them as I can, I did tons of sound sourcing for alot of the models, I converted tons of SP only hilts over to MP, I have a Mature pack where vulgar taunts are optional (among other things), etc; etc.

 

CM isn't just a skins pack. I cover all areas. I also don't have readme files, I use manuals in WinHelp format & in HTML.

 

Anyways, I think you get the point. I'll be sure to email you those head textures & then I'm off to bed. Cheers all.

[Teancum]

Originally Posted by Marker0077

I have 3DS Max 5 & I can probably get those models in-game for you. I'm used to using Milkshape & I just got 3DS not too long ago but it's alot better than Milkshape by far.

 

When you say 5 torsos, 3 heads, etc; etc. are you referring to skins or actual meshes? If it's actual meshes, you need to watch your polycount man. I'm not sure on all the details because I am somewhat new to the modeling scene, but I do know high polycounts cause slow animations.

 

I'll email you regarding the Maul stuff.

 

Well, the poly count is about 10k, but remember that the engine doesn't render surfaces that aren't on, so you're really looking about 1/4 of that or so.

 

Let me talk to Aaron about having someone else weight this. I know the original model had facial bones, so if you can do those, it shouldn't be problem.

 

Just curious, what's the difference between the CPC and Species menu? I thought they were the same.

 

I tried that tricks with the new hidden team skins. It works if you use the command or select red/blue from the profile menu, but not if you are actually in some team game. It defaults back to model_color instead of model_color_hiddenskin. Might be a coding issue.

[razorace]

Alright, let me clarify on this a bit. OJP is a developers union among other things like a friendly file resource. Basically, you share your work with us, we share our work with you & don't have to worry about someone complaining about how you went off & used their work or whatever the case may be.

 

As long as you understand that what you submit to OJP is not EVER to be removed, & you give credit where credit is due, you are free to use the material that we provide.

 

Uh, actually his description was more accurate for what he was talking about.

 

Anyway, it sounds like Teancum's work is pretty cool but I have an issue:

 

1. We (the moderators) will have to talk directly to the people that originally created the material.

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by razorace

Uh, actually his description was more accurate for what he was talking about.

Huh? What exactly is inaccurate about what I said? I needed to add that you need to get the original authors permission to add their work to OJP but aside from that, what was inaccurate?

[razorace]

Well, your wording made it sound like you have to contribute if you want access to the source files....which isn't true. And I don't think we've ever used the term "developer union". It's more of a development platform more than anything.

[babywax]

Does 10k seem high to anyone else? If you have any faces that you don't need, just delete em.

Although I did hear someone say that all of the actual body parts are in one model, with all the heads turned off etc... If that's what you're talking about it seems fine... The most I've heard for a JK2 model was about 4k tri's.

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by razorace

Well, your wording made it sound like you have to contribute if you want access to the source files....which isn't true.

While I have in the past, on this particular post I didn't really imply anything one way or the other. I think you just got that impression due to my previous posts, so for everyone else, let's clarify on that again...

 

You do not "need" to share your work with others (except for what is submitted to OJP of course) however, if you have material that you publically distribute on major mirror sites (like LucasFiles, FileFront (JK2Files.com), pcgamemods, etc; etc.) & that you do not submit to OJP, it's *solely* up to OJP staff (more like solely up to RA but not entirely) on whether or not you are just using OJP for selfish reasons & should be contributing more. Worst case scenario, you *might* get your work removed from various file servers because of this.

 

Sound about right RA?

Originally posted by razorace

And I don't think we've ever used the term "developer union". It's more of a development platform more than anything.

It's both really. Perhaps you have a different interpretation of what "union" means (I hope you're not thinking teamsters FFS - lol) but this is a union.

Originally posted by babywax

Does 10k seem high to anyone else? If you have any faces...

I'm a beginner as far as modeling goes so I was just speaking on what I heard, not what I know. I did just hire a new modeler tonight (thank god) but I still plan on handling some of the modeling myself. I apreciate the feedback either way though, thanks.

[Teancum]

10k isn't really that high. Because only parts of the model that are on are being rendered. For comparison, the Human Male model is about 15k.

 

Originally posted by Razorace

 

Anyway, it sounds like Teancum's work is pretty cool but I have an issue:

 

1. We (the moderators) will have to talk directly to the people that originally created the material.

 

I'll leave everyone's emails in the readme I'll include. In fact, I could just warn them all that you'll be emailing them, then you could email them all at once with something like this:

 

I have recieved a submission to the OJP from a user who has recieved permission for the use of some of your resources. However, I want to make sure that all of you are okay with submitting these things to OJP, here is what you have contributed individually:

 

bhalurei - skin 1

fuensona - skin 2

 

If each of you would send a reply letting me know if permission was actually granted, that would be much appreciated. If we do not recieve an email, we will assume that permission has not been granted.

 

Sincerely,

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by Teancum

In fact, I could just warn them all that you'll be emailing them...

Warn them, lol - THE RAZOR IS COMING TO QUESTION YOU - DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNN - lol.

Originally posted by Teancum

...then you could email them all at once with something like this...

I don't recommend that, I recommend individual emailing. Alot of people filter out emails from various people that it is "to:" in order to help block out spam (somewhat older spam but still spam). Little FYI for ya.

Originally posted by Teancum

I have recieved a submission to the OJP from a user who has recieved permission for the use of some of your resources. However, I want to make sure that all of you are okay with submitting these things to OJP, here is what you have contributed individually:

See that won't really work if you ask me. You need to produce a sales pitch with it a bit. You need to let them know there are ups with having their work included in OJP but there are downs as well - be straight up because not only is it just the right thing to do, they'll also find out about it later & if you don't tell them everything, they might be pist about it.

 

Which particular pieces of work of theirs it is should be the last thing covered in the email. Just my opinion.

[Wudan]

Originally posted by Teancum

10k isn't really that high. Because only parts of the model that are on are being rendered. For comparison, the Human Male model is about 15k.

 

Teancum is absolutely correct on this issue - the only polys that count are the ones that get drawn.

[Admiral Chemix]

Is there a way to port models and textures from kotor? If so we could use the models for tons of skins, npcs and races. Also is there a way to create brand new shader types. Like a slime shine (for male twi'lek tentacles), or shaders that would react to light or the enviornment. Also Perhaps we should add a male twilek race.

[Marker0077]

I was considering converting KotOR over to JK3 but I blew it off because I know it's a 4 CD set & the file format for the models & whatnot are not a common file type.

[Admiral Chemix]

still it'd be worth it, the kotor models are great

[Marker0077]

Ya I got that & I totally agree with you but the reality of the matter is I just have too much on my plate to start getting into that atm. Once I have some of the things I'm working on now completed, I'll look into converting the models over.

[babywax]

10k still seems really high to me... 15k seems massively high, I just don't see where the poly's go... I can make pretty much anything look recognizable in less than 1k polies. Just doesn't seem like it would be very efficient to have that many polygons, I mean I made this: http://www.imageshack.us/host/rapier.jpg.php in less than 800, and it's pretty detailed (un-mesh-smoothed).

[Teancum]

Another update. It really looks like the new hidden MP skins will have to be in a new directory, if they use new team skins files. Reason being as I stated before, is in a non-team game, you can select the red/blue skin, but when in a team game, it will default to the normal model_color.skin instead of model_color_charname.skin. Not a big deal. I'll just make the brown cultist and reborn boss not have team support, and people can select the normal ones for team games. Racto, Jedi/J2, Elder and Prisoner I'll probably put in custom directories, though. They aren't that big of glm files.

 

Regarding Aaron's Zabrak. I'm having trouble with shaders, and I'm not sure why. The hair and 1 robe that goes over the normal JO torso have clipping issues. For instance, the inside robe is see through from certain angles. I tried using cull twosided in the shader, but it didn't help. I will just have to keep messing with it.

 

Babywax: Player models are much more complex anyhow, and as I said before, the game will only render what ever parts of the model are 'on', set by the .skin files, so it's really only rendering about 2-3k. Trust me, it's not that high. Again, the standard Human male is 15k

[Admiral Chemix]

which model is 10 k, does it have multiple torso models, multiple heads, multiple eye and mouth sets, mutiple legs and feet? If not then lower the polycount or it will cause some major probs, the human male model has a great number of torso, leg and head models. All player models, unless made for character creation support with multiple torsos and such, should be under 6k

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by Teancum

...but when in a team game, it will default to the normal model_color.skin instead of model_color_charname.skin.

Who care's what it defaults to. Ya, if you enter in "model reborn", it'll default over to reborn/red but you can still type "model reborn/red_boss" & have it work but most people will just select the player via the UI menus. I don't see the point in boosting the filesize of the file over that.

Originally posted by Teancum

For instance, the inside robe is see through from certain angles.

models/players/oldben/benrobe

{

cull disable

{

map models/players/oldben/benrobe

rgbGen lightingDiffuse

alphaFunc GE128

}

}

 

Try that. It should fix it.

[Teancum]

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix

which model is 10 k, does it have multiple torso models, multiple heads, multiple eye and mouth sets, mutiple legs and feet? If not then lower the polycount or it will cause some major probs, the human male model has a great number of torso, leg and head models. All player models, unless made for character creation support with multiple torsos and such, should be under 6k

 

The model is a species, so it has multiple things that are turned off/on. In-game rendering will be below 4k easily.

[Teancum]

Well, I decided just to include the brown cultist w/o team support. No point in putting in an unneccesary glm. I realized that the Reborn/Boss was actually the red team skin, so that one is knocked out too. Elder is in game with new team skins. Still working on the rest. Also realized there was a skin called Jedi/Master. Going to add that as well.