The War in Iraq

[ShadowTemplar]

1. Turkey has the appearence of being a democracy. There is a parlaments and so forth. However, like I have said, Turkey is run by the military. If the military doesn't like something then it gets its way. The Turkish parlament in 2003 voted on whether to allow US troops in Turkey for Iraq. The Turkish military wanted none of that so it basically forced the parlament members to vote a majority "nay". That's just one example out of many.

 

2. There are many non-democratic countries in the EU. Slovakia,

Slovenia, Hungary to name a few.

 

Somebody around here appearently needs a little brush-up on European geography. Hungary has been a democracy for one and a half decade... It was in the Soviet rim, not one of the core republics.

 

Turkey is a more delicate matter. Technically it is a military despotism, but it is in the, historically speaking, highly unusual situation that the military actually places more importance on democratic values than many of the civilian politicians. In fact the Turkish military is the best guarentee the world has that Turkey will not degenerate to a fascist, fundamentalist country like Iran or the US.

 

And while we're on the subject of European geography, I'd like to remind you, Skin, that I'd concider declaring any of the Balkan states a "succes" something of a gamble.

 

Posted by boranchistanger on 07-18-2004 05:45 AM:

Every citizen in the US has access to healthcare, the best in the world actually.

 

Aah, heath care... One of my favorite topics to discuss with American Conservatives. Why? Because the Scandinavian model is soo much more efficient: Government pays for healthcare over the taxes, meaning that it's available to everyone free of charge. And it's actually a cheaper way to do it than the American model. Pro capita (which leads to the conclusion that it is cheaper even for those who would could afford it in the American system, even though they pay for the rest as well).

 

Actually, among core nation-states, the United States has some of the worst healthcare. We are far surpassed by nations like Norway, Germany and (I believe) Denmark.

 

Go DK! (And it's actually cheaper pro capita too)

 

Convincing 30 Banana Republics to sign on or lose some sort of foreign aid couldn't have been difficult.

 

Watch what you call a banana republic!!!

 

Posted by boranchistanger on 07-19-2004 01:01 PM:

Why should Americans die for no reason just like they did in Bosnia, Kosovo, Somalia and others (All under Clinton by the way).

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I seem to recall that the US involvement in Bosnia and Kosova were limited to airstriking Belgrade?

 

He is a Socialist, and he has admitted so. And no socialist person is very smart.

 

Watch your mouth! Many socialists are extremely intelligent. And I simply can't stand your inability to distinguish between Communist, Socialist, and Social Democrat. You seem to think that everything to the left of Liberal is a big, monolithic, communist block.

 

Is there some balance that a nation-state can find with socialist attributes while maintaining capitalist virtues?

 

It's called Social Democracy and is the most succesful way of managing an economy so far.

 

Posted by boranchistanger on 07-19-2004 01:01 PM:

So this man [Moore] is a liar and, well, a Socialist. And I hate guys who are liars.

 

And, appearently, Socialists as well. I think that comment was uncalled for and inflammatory.

 

I'm a huge proponent of the scientific method and Kerry, my friend, more closely adheres to it than Bush.

 

Skin, please, PLEASE, stop using the 'science card'. It really serves science poorly to get dragged into the Bush/Kerry mudslinging.

 

Kerry was actually in the bush during his military service

 

Hehe. Pun intended?

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by ShadowTemplar

And while we're on the subject of European geography, I'd like to remind you, Skin, that I'd concider declaring any of the Balkan states a "succes" something of a gamble.

 

And yet, its a nation that went from the grips of ethnic cleansing back to one of tourism in only a decade or so. Our work in Bosnia is to be proud of, not ashamed. That's the point I'm making. I agree, there are definately many things left they have to accomplish, but things are looking decidedly "up."

 

Originally posted by ShadowTemplar

Watch what you call a banana republic!!!

 

Oops... sorry. I forgot the Danish Army was there.

 

Originally posted by ShadowTemplar

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I seem to recall that the US involvement in Bosnia and Kosova were limited to airstriking Belgrade?

 

He might have been referring to the peac-keeping troops that went in after the hostilities.

 

Originally posted by ShadowTemplar

Skin, please, PLEASE, stop using the 'science card'. It really serves science poorly to get dragged into the Bush/Kerry mudslinging.

 

Can't help it. I see the world through that lens.

[ShadowTemplar]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

I agree, there are definately many things left they have to accomplish, but things are looking decidedly "up."

 

Definitely. But if you paint too rosy a picture, people might start thinking 'mission accomplished' too early... As some politicians are wont to do.

[yaebginn]

http://rnc.org/

 

check out the vids on this site. there is a short, 1 min one, a long 12 min one, and a spanish one. These are your beloved Kerry's views on the War in Iraq.