SWGB 2 Techs

[DK_Viceroy]

Maybe for SWGB 2 their could be a type of research area that no other civ would get access to. For example while the Republic would get access to Infantry weapons and a unique tech area of Advanced Cloning Techniques. They wouldn't get access to the Confederacies Unique Tech Field which would be something like Advanced Droid Design.

[Admiral Vostok]

Just when I complimented you on your punctuation you post this horrendously confusing string of words. Please rephrase (or should that be "phrase") if you want a decent response.

[Darth Windu]

Viceroy - i would say no. Instead of producing techs to make each civ unique, i would rather just give them unique units. Much easier and more better.

[DK_Viceroy]

No I was Suggesting Fileds of reserach that each civ could have in addition to having unique units, buildings and everything else.

 

They'd propably have shared techs but these Unique Tech fields will help show more diveristy.

[Darth Windu]

Viceroy - but again, why do you need unique research fileds if the units themselves are already unique? It just adds more irrelevant micro-management to the game with no gain.

[DK_Viceroy]

What I'm syaing is that all civs may share common techs, and who said it would be any more micromanagement thatn now?

[Admiral Vostok]

I think unique techs here and there are a must, but I can't see the advantage of entire fields of techs being unique. For example with the Republic cloning you could maybe have one tech that upgrades their build time and another that decreases their cost but that's about it - more suited to two unique techs than a whole unique field of cloning research. The only exception would maybe be if the Republic was the only civ to have Jedi, then there would be some the unique field of Jedi techs that only they have.

[DK_Viceroy]

Yeah that's kinda what I have in mind except i'll give examples.

 

Confederacy

 

Advanced Droid Research

 

Upgrades For Troopers

 

Creation

 

Cost

 

Build Time

 

Firepower

 

Upgrades For Mechs

 

Air Targetting

 

Fast Moving Object Targetting

 

Firepower

 

Power Requirements

 

and so on so forth

[Admiral Vostok]

But surely most of those techs you've listed would work better as generic techs. Advanced Droid Research is the only real Confederacy-specific tech. Then you have Fast Moving Object Targetting, which doesn't suit the Confederacy at all.

 

But this brings up another issue that strangely we haven't really discussed before. What form should research take in SWGB2? I know Windu wants his method of research, but most of us don't, so I'm referring to the traditional research method.

 

The way I see it, there are two options:

1. [*]Mostly generic research with some unique techs (eg Age of Mythology)

[*]Completely unique research (eg C&C Generals)[/list=1]Personally I prefer the first option as I think it fits Star Wars better. For the most part the armies of Star Wars are quite similar, and this should be reflected in their technology. Using generic techs also means it is easier to have a lot of techs, which is what I like in a game.

 

However the few unique techs amongst the generic set would be highly characterful for the armies, something like this:

Clone Growth Acceleration (Republic): All infantry (except Jedi) are produced twice as fast.

Astromech Navigators (Rebels): X-Wings and Y-Wings have better accuracy and slowly self-repair.

 

Again you'd have completely unique fields of tech for something like Republic Jedi, if they were the only ones to get Jedi.

[DK_Viceroy]

Well I'm one for making the Confederacy Have to provide Power ot their droid's or have some sort of Transmission Building so They could have techs that Allow them to stay actuive for longer while either of those sources are inoperable.

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - i will at this point take issue with some of your examples.

For example with the Republic cloning you could maybe have one tech that upgrades their build time and another that decreases their cost

Why not instead use a unique building (Cloning Center) and natural uniqueness of the units themselves?

 

All infantry (except Jedi) are produced twice as fast

Again, unique buildings surfice quite well here.

 

X-Wings and Y-Wings have better accuracy and slowly self-repair

This is an example of why natural bonuses are better. Instead of starting off where you have to research Astromechs for your Y and X-wings to self-repair, there is a far easier and more starwarsy method of having this from the start. It feels more like Star Wars because the units are already how we see them in the films, and you dont have to keep checking if you have researched all 734 techs.

[Admiral Vostok]

Why not instead use a unique building (Cloning Center) and natural uniqueness of the units themselves?

To me, an actual tech makes more sense. The Kaminoans had to research growth acceleration to make their clones grow faster so they can get armies ready quicker. They could just clone people normally, but then they'd take 20 years to make an army. Similarly, the education system the Kaminoans use for the clones is one of their own initiatives - in essence, a researched tech - that makes the clones excellent in all manner of warfare. I suppose it could easily be done with a unique building too, but since in my design each civ has a unique set of buildings the effect isn't as profound as in your design.

This is an example of why natural bonuses are better. Instead of starting off where you have to research Astromechs for your Y and X-wings to self-repair, there is a far easier and more starwarsy method of having this from the start. It feels more like Star Wars because the units are already how we see them in the films, and you dont have to keep checking if you have researched all 734 techs.

It's true that that is more realistic, but it is makes for poor gameplay. If the Rebels can get shielded, self-repairing, highly-accurate fighters as soon as any aircraft become available, they will own any civ. This is why in SWGB aircraft don't come with shields as standard; early in the game it is tricky to counter air and the aircraft certainly don't need these bonuses early on. If the techs become available through research, not only does it make the player think more about resource allocation for research, but it gives opponents a fighting chance against an air rush.

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - but although the Rebel fighters would already have shields, the enemy would also already have anti-air defences such as Rocket Troopers. You also have to remember that in my template you have to research the units themselves, so in order to get Y-wings and X-wings you have to invest in aircraft research, and you will gain access to the Y-wing before the X-wing, then the A-wing and the B-wing.

[Admiral Vostok]

But as each civ progresses their ability to deal with threats also becomes better. They may have rocket troopers from early on, but unless you mass rocket troopers then a fighter rush (especially a fully upgraded fighter rush) will be quite crippling.

 

And why is the Y-Wing available before the X-Wing? The Y-Wing in numbers is possibly even more dangerous than the X-Wing, but also the X-Wing is the standard, base unit of the Rebellion and should be the first available.

[DK_Viceroy]

I'd actually agree with Windu on the order they would come in.

 

It's of course Immutable Canon Holy Goshpel it is well Known that early on the Rebel's had to use Y-Wings as fighters indeed they didn't get X-Wings for quite a while until Incom Defected from the Empire along with their new fighter design.

 

All this Talk about templates is making me reconsider withdrawing from the Template buisness.

[Admiral Vostok]

Well the movies certainly don't support the fact that X-Wings came after Y-Wings, but the stronger of my arguments is for gameplay purposes. Clearly the Y-Wing is the more heavily armed aircraft and should come after the X-Wing for this reason alone.

[DK_Viceroy]

The Movie's neither deny or confirm that fact Vostok please so not try to misldead the Jury.

 

I am sorely Tempted with coming up with a template especially since as of late I've even been toying around with a few ideas to replace Pop slots and have unique equivalent's of them while at the same time having an open ended unit limit that is as high as your economy can support it.

[Admiral Vostok]

I never said they deny or confirm it, that's my whole point. If making the X-Wing available first isn't unrealistic according to the movies, then make it do so for gameplay's sake.

[DK_Viceroy]

I'd say the Y-wing is more of a Fighter bomber than either or the other.

 

Remeber we must be careful around here it's like a court room.

[Admiral Vostok]

Exactly. In every RTS game I've played, weaker units (fighters) are available before stronger units (fighter-bombers). Again I'm appealling in the name of gameplay.

[DK_Viceroy]

Actually I'm thinking in more realism Terms what's the point of sending in bombers if you don't have air Superiority ergo fighters would go first.

 

However in the case of the Y-wing you could get it earlier but it wouldn't be equipped with bombs yet you could load it out with bombs later.

[Admiral Vostok]

Whatever. Makes no sense to me from a gameplay perspective, but you can do whatever weird things you want in your own RTS design.

[DK_Viceroy]

* Jumps up and down in a frenzy*

 

I never said I was actually going to I said I was thinking about it.

 

The idea of having a unit like the Y-Wing as a fighter initially and then converting it into a Fighter bomber is Canon To star wars not only that It's an idea never really tried out in RTS gaming.

[DarthMuffin]

Heh, this place is just dying, it's not even funny.

 

I thought about giving a sign of life, so I figured I might drop my opinion here :

 

Originally posted by Darth Windu

Viceroy - i would say no. Instead of producing techs to make each civ unique, i would rather just give them unique units. Much easier and more better.

 

Everything has been said.

[DK_Viceroy]

* Roars And Shreiks*

 

Topic's Evolve now we're discussing about how Techs and units could interact in SWGB2.

 

Everything has been said.

 

and saying something like that is in Contempt of court and is a Deliberate attempt to kill this place right when it's becomming Lively.