Sheilded vs Non-Shielded discussion

[K_Kinnison]

This has been a contorversy ever since you first were able to fly a SW ship with no sheilds, in TIE fighter, and all the games after.

 

Is thier advatages to NOT having shields?

 

Is thier Disadvatages to having shields?

[Guest emupiett]

There are advantages and disadvantages to both. When one does not have shields it teaches them to learn evasive maneuvers. When one does not have shields, they sometimes can tend to be cocky and then they get careless and die because they do not evade. This is much more true when one is dodging a missile. However, I also think that speed has something to do with the advantages and disadvantages as well. I would much rather be in an Interceptor than a Y-Wing (but that is my personal opinion) because the Y-Wing is too sluggish for me.

 

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"Intensify forward firepower!!"

[K_Kinnison]

I think the learning curve for non-shieled ships is much higher.

 

My style is to "fight dirty" that means i USE my shields to take a low damageing shot so i can hit them with full Quads.

 

Non-shielded craft are notoriasy fragile in H2H situations, that is where the B-wing and Y-wing (and sometimes X-wing) are masters of. From my experinace in Shileded vs Non-shieled battles the Shieled craft won hands down, due to the fact it could take a hit, while delivering a shot of its own in h2h.

 

Yes, there is the speed tradeoff, but msot good pilots that use shields, divert all shield energy to the engines. Thus putting them on equal footing with the added bonus of more durability.

 

Since 75% of all kills in a 1v1 battle are done at range, shields are the deciding factor

 

shields rock!

[ME_Jeldren]

Well the non shieled crafts are pretty small and manuverable. This is an

advantage when you are engaging heavy fighters. The X-Wing for example

is very vulnerable to laser/ion fighters because it is pretty big and has only

average shields. Shields also teach you bad flying tactics that will get you

killed when you fly an unshieled craft. I don't think that a pilot used to unshieled

crafts will have the similar problems with a shielded craft.

 

[K_Kinnison]

you could use the same argument for non-shielded craft

 

The Tie Fighter for example

is very vulnerable to laser/ion fighters because it has no shilds, and the Solar panels make it a big target. Not having Shields also teach you bad flying tactics that will get you killed when you fly an shielded craft. I don't think that a pilot used to shielded

crafts will have the similar problems with a non-shielded craft.

 

Non-shielded craft are VERY vunerable to Ions since the have no shields. And from the side are the same size an a X-wing. One thing you might not notice, is that a X-wing without shields, all shield energy to engines, performs about the same as a TIE/Int. With SLIGHTY lesss manuverbilty. And without a "sheild bubble" has the same cross-section as a T/F or T/I

 

In a 1v1 battle with a X-wing going after a T/I, it is an even match, but the X-wing can take about 4-8 direct hits without any damage, while a T/I starts taking damage at 1 hit.

[Guest Starflame]

I have 2 words for you . . . SHIELDS KILL!

 

No, they don't kill the enemy, they kill YOU. SPEED is everything. I've been a trainer in many different squadrons, I would be the first to know that it's practically the first thing you teach a rookie.

 

Do you think you can hit me at long range if you have an X/W and I have a T/I K_Kinnison? Nah, it's a simple (not for new people) manuver called a "long range quick snap barrol roll". Theres no way in hell you could hit me at long range. I'd get behind you and rip you apart as soon as we got close, that's all there is to it. T/I is a superior craft for speed in manuverability. X just doens't stand a chance. Take my advice, if you ever have a shielded craft, dump full shields into engines.

 

Starflame

[Guest Starflame]

PS: X doesn't perform the same as T/I with full shields to engines. T/I is still more manuverable.

[Guest Starflame]

PS: X doesn't perform the same as T/I with full shields to engines. T/I is still more manuverable.

[Guest Starflame]

I have 2 words for you . . . SHIELDS KILL!

 

No, they don't kill the enemy, they kill YOU. SPEED is everything. I've been a trainer in many different squadrons, I would be the first to know that it's practically the first thing you teach a rookie.

 

Do you think you can hit me at long range if you have an X/W and I have a T/I K_Kinnison? Nah, it's a simple (not for new people) manuver called a "long range quick snap barrol roll". Theres no way in hell you could hit me at long range. I'd get behind you and rip you apart as soon as we got close, that's all there is to it. T/I is a superior craft for speed in manuverability. X just doens't stand a chance. Take my advice, if you ever have a shielded craft, dump full shields into engines.

 

Starflame

[Guest garyah99]

Originally posted by Starflame:

I have 2 words for you . . . SHIELDS KILL!

 

No, they don't kill the enemy, they kill YOU. SPEED is everything. I've been a trainer in many different squadrons, I would be the first to know that it's practically the first thing you teach a rookie.

 

Do you think you can hit me at long range if you have an X/W and I have a T/I K_Kinnison? Nah, it's a simple (not for new people) manuver called a "long range quick snap barrol roll". Theres no way in hell you could hit me at long range. I'd get behind you and rip you apart as soon as we got close, that's all there is to it. T/I is a superior craft for speed in manuverability. X just doens't stand a chance. Take my advice, if you ever have a shielded craft, dump full shields into engines.

 

Starflame

Hey Starflame! Are you trying for the record for double posts in one thread??? j/k

 

I agree with Kinnison, I'll take a shielded craft any day. Shields DON'T teach bad flying habits, bad trainers do! As a matter of pride I avoid taking fire, no matter what type of ship I'm flying. As for speed vs manoeuverability, a good pilot learns to use the advantages of the particular type of craft he is flying. An X-Wing with shields can take more damage than a Tie/I. With equal lasers, the X-Wing will win. Putting all shield energy to engines will give you a faster straight line speed, but in order to be the most manoueverable, you have to cut throttles anyway. I'll take shields, thanks.

[Guest Starflame]

!! Sorry about the double posts, I had no idea I did that . . . I'm still wondering how hehe.

 

Yes, you should always avoid taking fire, but being able to avoid is really the problem. An X is extremely vulnerable in close, it's excellent at long range I'll admit. A T/I really only has to avoid long range contact. When you cut throttle to 33% in close, your manuverability still depends on your ship. The T/I has superior manuverability to X.

 

I'll tell ya what, I apologize for seeming obnoxious earlier, and I'd love to discuss our theories on flying, while flying. Basically I'm inviting anyone to a "discussion flight". Anyone interested?

 

Btw I don't know how I double posted, I didn't even realize until I checked back!

 

Starflame

[K_Kinnison]

Starflame... I agree the T/I has the edge in manuverbilty vs a X-wing.. even with the X-wings shields fully diverted to the engines.

 

How much do you know about Online flying? Ever herd of the NRES? Or NRES_Photon? he is now NRN_R_Photon. He credits me with his flying abilities the way they are now. And he is by far the #1 pilot online.

 

Ya know what? he started, and ended his training with X-wings.

 

the "snap-roll" is a predictable manuver.. if you can judge the lag, you can still hit your opponenet

 

If you want a lesson... go talk to him. or you can give me your zone name, and i will ahve him contact you. I am a retired pilot, and the group that I had, won the Week of War, then we decided to do other things.

 

I was reknowned as a Marksman in XWA in my prime. Usualyl i could ALLWAYs get the first hit in. Even with barrel rolls, you ahve to understand taht if you perform a "long range quick snap barrol roll" you end up on the same line of flight, and as you aim at me... i will allready have 4 lasers heading your direction.

 

I know all the tricks, and i taught people how to fight against all the tricks.

 

You know how fast a X-wing goes with Shields diverted to engines? 125 MGLT, more if you sacrifice laser energy. but even with the Diverting of energy, you will still ahve Shield energy avaible to protect you from enemy fire.

 

All 1v1s boild down to how much damage you can take, and give in a set period of time. If you can give double damage then you recvie to someone for even 1 respwan, you win. Shields vs non-shielded.. shields will ALLWAYS win in ANY situation

[Guest Starflame]

Ahh, hello Gremlin, I presume that's you. Next time just annouce yourself please

 

I do know my friend Pho very well however, we are/were good friends, at least until I announced some of my OTHER zone names before I left *laughs*. I'm sure we've chatted enough to make several hundred novels, I'd rather not chat any further thank you.

 

Photon is not the best player in XWA however, he'll admit to that.

 

I think Pho would agree that I don't need a lesson either. He'll say I need a new conn, which is true.

 

Now, about the disadvant/advant of X vs. T/I . . .

 

You admitted yourself that the T/I has a slight manuverability advantage. Well, I always do a long range spiral against X, then cut in with full or partial lasers (depending on opponet skill level) to engines at 33% when I get in close. No X can outurn a T/I, no matter what you do. The X is also flat and long, and the shields actually extend or ghost the hull so it's a bigger target than it actually looks. Therefore if I'm flying a tighter circle than you I'll have an easy hit, practically can't miss. The key to what I'm saying here is that long range spiral in the begining. Theres nothing to predict, it's the most difficult manuver to defend against simply because the human brain can't anticipate where the craft will be next. Although the T/I can't possibly fire and hit the X at long range in this spiral, the trade off is getting in close so I rip your X from behind. You have shields therefore the kill would be slow and take time, but theres nothing you can do about it except try to play tank or do a common manuver where you hit full throttle and try to quick turn on me at a distance. An ace won't let you do that, they will stick to your rear and keep you at most at .15 - .20 at all times. An X doesn't have the manuverability to turn around fast enough and catch a shot at a T/I at .20 away. You'd have to be at .30+ km to succesfully turn on me. No good T/I pilot will let you do that. The X's lasers also run out faster than T/I, therefore you can't shunt lasers to engines for very long unless your going "pure defense". Regardless, full lasers and shields to engines for X is not as fast as full lasers to engines in T/I. I know how to manage power in a T/I effectively so it would seem like I never ran out of lasers. The scores would be low in such a game, but the T/I would win, if it's the right person. The key is not allowing the enemy to hit you, period.

 

Btw, I've been in NRES.

 

Starflame

 

[Guest Sean]

Starflame,

 

I've read your posts. T/I's kick ass. They're my personal favourite. I love the speed, the feeling of superiority over other pilots and the fact that I fly better without shields.

 

Keep the up the good replies.

 

PS- I'm new here, but been playing all x-wing games for many years.

[K_Kinnison]

Okay, if you randomly picked out 100 pilots, and put them into a TIE Interceptor. Then picked 100 more and have them fly X-wings.

 

Guess what craft is goign to win... the X-wings will. Jsut because they have shields. not because of skill or "long range spirals"

 

I have seen people do them, and i have hit people and killing people doing them. it is predictable, and can be countered.

[Guest garyah99]

Hey Starflame! First of all, I was just teasing about the double posting, no flame or chastising inteaded! Secondly, I guess your preference for shield or not depends on your fighting style. For example, when I'm in the kick boxing ring, I know how much damage I can take while devising a strategy to defeat my opponent. In other word, I accept a little damage to inflict a lot. I guess this translates into my flying style as well. I accept a little damage while manouevering my opponent into a situation where I can defeat him. I don't play online, but i have played numerous melees against the computer with X-Wing vs various TIEs on Super Ace AI, and while I eventually DO get killed, I take a dozen or more of them out first.

[Admiral Odin]

I prefer shields for because:

 

1. in the way I fly, I use shields to go head to head with any tie especially the unshielded ones. I will take a couple of hits to my shields but I will kill them. and when if one gets on my tail I don't have to bank away imedietally. Also I like to ram some ships when I'm bored. Shields let me have that fun.

 

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"Dulce bellum inexpertis."

(Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb

[Guest TIE_pilot]

It is hard to decide. I'd say beginers need shielded ships to stay alive and get better. Once you get good aces should not stay on an x-wing. They have it to easy. Go to a non-shielded ship. I personally like the T/I. But I'd fly an X/W anytime. It just matters what mood I'm in. If I'm mad I just want to blow the puke out of somebody with a T/I. X/W's aren't slow though, so I still don't know.

 

Boy am I bad at this.

 

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"You Rebel Scum."

[K_Kinnison]

And again Starflame i do know a lot of Vetrans out there that swear up and down about T/I, but the X-wing can teach a beginning pilot so much about how to fight. The shiedls allow them to take a few more hits ,and realize they made a mistake, and should learn harder. If they start with T/I the first time they know they made a mistake, they are looking at the craft from the outside as it explodes.

 

When i first started play XWA online, pretty much everyone flew T/I. Even the "Rebel" groups. My first lesson was very flustrating becasue ofg the fact i kept getting killed, and had to re-spawn all the time.

 

The NRES changed the dynamics of the WoW by having more people fly craft OTHER then T/Is. And you know what happened? more games were played, and more people were involved then before the T/I" only idea.

 

Newer pilots prefer shields, becasue they can survive longer. Jsut that added safty cushion when you land on your behind

[Guest Starflame]

Yes I agree with alot of what your saying Kinnison, I would agree to what you said about 100 pilots in a T/I vs 100 X's instantly. You know why? Quite simple, a T/I does have an advantage over an X/W, however that advantage can only be exploited if the T/I has extreme concentration and is able to watch his every move. Basically it requires the T/I to make no mistakes, hence what others were saying about the T/I being a bad rookie ship. In such a large space battle the X's would plow through the T/I like cheesecake. Few pilots have the ability to concentrate on finess when their are 100 tanks coming straight down their throats.

 

In a 2v2 it would be the same, the X's would be predominent and slaughter the T/I's simply because it's a different style of combat. But in a 1v1 dogfight, I strongly believe that that (if all conditions were equal) the T/I would have the advantage and win.

 

Well I've had my training methods insulted enough already on this board so I think we should get into that a bit . . .

 

I've trained for UPA, NRN and CM, and yes we always used T/I. Why? Kinnison said that it's hard to learn when your respawning all the time. Well, why do you think there are things called "flight simulators". In real life, you only get one chance. So if you die in your T/I after making one little mistake you realize that you can't ever make that mistake again. And you don't. If a rookie makes one little mistake in an X, he has say 2 more chances to make the same mistake again before realizing that it got him killed. By training in an X you are essentially making it way harder to get people to see their mistakes. 3 times as hard because that person in an X has 3 more chances to make mistakes than he would in a T/I, thanks to his sheilds.

 

If you start flying with a T/I, you will soon realize that 1 hit will kill you (1 hit is defined as one quad lasers burst). So you always evade and make sure you never take any fire. In my opinion, X's make rookie pilots lazy and overconfident.

 

In Star Wars the rebels had X-wings and they were alot better than TIEs. Well, the main reason for that was because practically all the X-wing pilots you saw were spectacular aces. An ace in an X can do serious damage to any number of TIEs. The X is made to take on more than 1 target in desperate situations. They were designed to take victory in a 1v1 dogfight with an ace in a faster ship. In the confusion of battle an X is the better craft over T/I, because it has a cusion. It also keeps its aces alive longer, so the rebels didn't lose their good pilots nearly as often as the Imps.

 

But lets say you and I were to meet somewhere quiet and alone in space, where there is only the 2 of us. My T/I vs your X. I strongly believe that I would win such a dogfight.

 

Starflame

 

PS: Notify me if you are Gremlin please (Kinnison)

[Guest Starflame]

^typo: "They were not designed to take victory in a 1v1 dogfight against an ace in a faster ship." Located in paragraph 6.

[Guest Cloud]

I don't know where you get that X-Wing pilots are laser. I ALWAYS did evasive manuevers when I got XWA (ok mostly due to the fact that I learned it in the hardway in X-wing). Beside, somehow X-Wings just feel cooler. Althought I remember someone saying "it's better not to be hit than to be hit". The guy was pretty good (I suck then again...) though in the TIE series....

[K_Kinnison]

In a 1v1 situation yes, a T/I can beat a X-wing, but only time that happens is during "simulators" in the Civl war Rebel pilots hada longer life espectacy the Imperial pilots because of the shields.

 

Also, in the X-wing series comics, Rougues squad goes against the 181st, Elite fighter squadron, vs Elite fighter squadron. Guess who won? Rouges did.

 

Conclusions, X-wings (with shilds are better)

 

THis isn't about which ship is better, it is about wether having shilds is better then not.

 

And would my opnion matter any more or less if i was this "gremlin"?

[Guest Starflame]

Whether or not you're "gremlin" matters, because you have taken credit for Photons flying. I know Pho very well and I'm quite sure that Gremlin was his trainer. It's very probable that you could have bragged such a thing while thinkng that I was a newbie. I can assure you that 2 years of XWA usually earns one more status than that. If you identify yourself (your zone name) things will be alot easier. Until then, you do not have the right to take credit for things such as someone elses flying ability.

 

Starflame

[K_Kinnison]

if your one of his good friends, why dont you ask him yourself, he would be better at telling you the truth or not, instead of myself.