Doomie Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Y'know, i remember reading somewhere that the kaminoans didn't like the regular clone troopers for some reason that I forgot, and proceeded to create the Clone Commandos. They were created a bit different from the other clones. Clearly different enough to allow them to develop their own personalities. Maybe that caused the different voices too. (About Boss, it's pretty clear that somehow the voice got cloned with him too. But we've also got stuff like 'genetic memory', so meh.) where is Kamino in the OT? Did it get destroyed in between? I think it only became less interesting. Though the Emperor could use it to double his army in no time. And then it'd be the rebels main target. Damn, what DID happen to Kamino? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Kamino is of no use by the time the OT comes around. The emperor is in power, and he was doing damn good of staying in power. (Until Luke showed up) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Originally posted by Doomie Y'know, i remember reading somewhere that the kaminoans didn't like the regular clone troopers for some reason that I forgot, and proceeded to create the Clone Commandos. Yet in the movie, Lama Su kept going on about how magnificent they were... The Commandos were made for special missions. Same with the ARC trooper. Commandos are a bit less of a drone like the meatbag troopers, but still have high loyalty and obeying orders without question. In other words, they think more. ARCs are almost identical Jangos... just loyal to the Republic <.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtech Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Doesn't it say in the developer notes that the problem with ARCs is that they are LITERALLY Jango clones. I mean, they may be loyal, but you try telling them to go on a suicide mission! (Prepare to loose a few fingers). Commandos are a compromise, not brain-dead, but fairly controllable. With clone troopers being pretty much fleshy droids in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak Um... pilots are pilots... trained at the Naval Academy... Han Solo anyone? As for the stormtroopers being clones... I'm sure by ANH, the clones would be getting pretty old due to growth acceleration. also, where is Kamino in the OT? Did it get destroyed in between? As for Royal Guardsmen, perhaps they were specially trained on Yinchorr? And once they started getting stormtroopers, take the best ones and train them. It's people that think too much and focus on contradictions and "abc-canon" crap that ruin it for themselves and others instead of just freaking enjoying the damn stories. There's people who get paid handsomely to worry about that stuff. Unfortunately I'm not one of 'em! ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak Yet in the movie, Lama Su kept going on about how magnificent they were... He's a good salesman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumMayhem Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Its a clever move by LA to use different personalities to keep gameplay and interaction fresh with your fellow Deltas, and from what I have gathered, an explanation is feasible. As far as i've learned, Jango Fett's instructor's weren't clones of him, but allies that were handchosen by the Prime Clone himself to train the armies. As far as differentiating between Advanced Recon Commandos and Clone Commandos, ARCs are identical Jango Fett templates in that they havent been tampered with at all (with perhaps the only exception being the growth acceleration - or maybe not.. as ill point out later), and were each trained by Fett himself. Much like Fett, they are incredible at their art, but also share the same independance as the being they are based off and hence proved incredibly difficult for the Republic to control. This resulted in the small quantity of ARC Troopers being placed back into stasis and only released when absolutely necessary (ref. The Defence of Kamino). This took the genetics officers of Kamino back to square one, and hence they began to develop a new tactic which involved 'raising' a squad of four individuals to work in sync as a unit, much like the aiwha (flying beasts you see burst out of the seascapes of Kamino) do when they hunt. So looking at the get-go, Clone Commandos are segregated from other Troopers and are only trained together as a squad from their very beginnings, and hence are open to develop their own personalities; as, for example, siblings do. I expect Fett himself had little to do with their training, hence accents developed by Commandos would differ to a degree. Keep in mind that Fett's Concord Dawn accent could have been shared by some of his trainers, which would explain Delta Three Eight. As far as the connection between Stormtroopers and Clone Troopers goes, im sure most of the Clones would have died out through combat or accelerated aging by the time of the OT. Then seeing as the Empire had total control, it would recruit from the masses much the same as police forces or military do these days, to boost the efficiency of its forces with more free thinking individuals. I see the use of the Clones by Palpatine as a quick rise to power and then nothing more. Wiping out his Seperatist opposition using his planted Sith agents, combined with using his Sith leaders to use the Seperatists to thin the Jedi simultaneously was a genius plan. Ive gotta give him that much.. There is a Dark Horse comic that portrays Luke Skywalker and a Clone Trooper on the cover. It seems that he seeks out the assistance of the CT to aid him in a mission. Could this be a surviving ARC Trooper? It would make sense, seeing as these pure replicas of Jango were fully independant and self sufficient. Very interesting indeed! As for Jango keeping his father's accent, he was already around 12 when Mace took down Jango on Geonosis and I suspect, since then; has lived alone, thus the accent stayed with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Originally posted by MaximumMayhem As far as differentiating between Advanced Recon Commandos and Clone Commandos, ARCs are identical Jango Fett templates in that they havent been tampered with at all (with perhaps the only exception being the growth acceleration - or maybe not.. as ill point out later) If they didn't have growth acceleration, they'd all be little 10 year old kids like Boba (who wasn't growth accelerated), so that doesn't work. Remember, according to Lucas only 2-3 years pass between Episode II and III, and since the "Clone Wars" series which introduces the ARC troopers takes place in that short period, they simply have to be growth accelerated to be ready in time! If they are independant, fine, but of course that means they may have rebelled against their being treated as slaves & cannon fodder, unless Jango was able to pay them or convince them to be loyal to him somehow. If you got this info from the EU novels fine, but I'm just saying. ; ) This took the genetics officers of Kamino back to square one, and hence they began to develop a new tactic which involved 'raising' a squad of four individuals to work in sync as a unit, much like the aiwha (flying beasts you see burst out of the seascapes of Kamino) do when they hunt. That doesn't solve the independance problem, and they still have to be growth accelerated. Just saying... As far as the connection between Stormtroopers and Clone Troopers goes, im sure most of the Clones would have died out through combat or accelerated aging by the time of the OT. Then seeing as the Empire had total control, it would recruit from the masses much the same as police forces or military do these days, to boost the efficiency of its forces with more free thinking individuals. This really has yet to be explained in G-level canon. It's possible we'll learn of this in the Episode III G-level materials (novel, DVD), but if not there's some possible retcons handy: 1) The Empire switched to numerous clone "templates" and these included going to the highest bidder kind of thing, like rich officer families contributing their "templates." 2) The Empire hired on lots of different planets besides Kamino, with different templates to use in their clone stocks. 3) After the Clone Wars, they started getting conscripts/recruites and brainwashing them, which was cheaper than using clones. And the clones were eventually phased out, or relegated to a small percentage of the Stormtrooper population. 4) After the Clone Wars, they switched to a new faster (but more dangerous) technique involving the Spaarti Cylinders and all that hokum from the Thrawn novels in the EU. Lucas just threw it all into chaos with his announcement that the Jango Clones became the Stormtroopers. I see the use of the Clones by Palpatine as a quick rise to power and then nothing more. Wiping out his Seperatist opposition using his planted Sith agents, combined with using his Sith leaders to use the Seperatists to thin the Jedi simultaneously was a genius plan. Ive gotta give him that much.. Getting a big army in secret quickly with clones makes a lot of sense. The question is, does he continue making clones up to the time of Episode IV? Hence the need for some explanation there, because if nothing else changed, there's no way Kamino could provide that many soldiers, and the batches they had ready would be too old by that time. There is a Dark Horse comic that portrays Luke Skywalker and a Clone Trooper on the cover. It seems that he seeks out the assistance of the CT to aid him in a mission. Could this be a surviving ARC Trooper? It would make sense, seeing as these pure replicas of Jango were fully independant and self sufficient. Very interesting indeed! Maybe, but that's assuming the growth acceleration isn't on this dude. Let's say he was "born" during time the Army was created, that would mean he'd be in his late 20's, early 30's by the time of the OT (like Boba), and assuming this is EU, add onto that whatever number of years it's supposed to be. If he DOES have growth acceleration, then double whatever his age is. As for Jango keeping his father's accent, he was already around 12 when Mace took down Jango on Geonosis and I suspect, since then; has lived alone, thus the accent stayed with him. So how did Boba pick up the accent in the first place? He didn't have it as a child when his dad died. Fast Forward 30 years and suddenly he's got an identical "Concord Dawn" accent as his father (via Lucas's revised 2004 OT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Originally posted by Kurgan So how did Boba pick up the accent in the first place? He didn't have it as a child when his dad died. Fast Forward 30 years and suddenly he's got an identical "Concord Dawn" accent as his father (via Lucas's revised 2004 OT). You expect too much of a child actor. What they needed was someone that'd look like how Jango would have likely looked as a child. There's only so much you can teach a kid. And you can't digitally give a kid an accent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 All Lucas had to do was find a kid who COULD speak that accent, and dub over the Boba actor's lines. He's done that sort of thing before (he redubbed all of Beru's lines in ANH, and David Prowse's for Darth Vader, plus he had to do Threepio's because of the noisey suit, Darth Maul's lines in TPM, etc). Sure, as the actor I'd be pissed, but oh well. Things were fine until Lucas decided to dub over adult Boba's lines in ESB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 He could've but he didn't need to. Plus there are lots of kids that over time develop their accent. We could assume Boba is one of these kids. He developes the accent later on. *shrugs* It's Star Wars, people need to stop being so picky about trivial things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Maybe Boba spent enough time on Concord Dawn between AOTC and ESB to develope an accent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Originally posted by InsaneSith He could've but he didn't need to. Plus there are lots of kids that over time develop their accent. We could assume Boba is one of these kids. He developes the accent later on. *shrugs* It's Star Wars, people need to stop being so picky about trivial things. Well, like I said, it's George's fault. He was really the "picky" one, who had to change his movie, throwing the "logic" of it into confusion on points like this. ; ) One out of universe theory could point to Lucas making a blunder in AOTC, then wishing to cover it, by changing ESB instead (a movie he didn't originally direct, but has control over), or thinking his audience too stupid to recognize that Boba and Jango are clones of one another and make the connection between trilogies (despite having the same ship, armor, weapons, job, etc). I don't see how the fans are to blame for noticing! Yeah, obviously he somehow picked up the accent, in-universe, it's just left as a mystery for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBomber Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Maybe the accent was there, but we couldn't hear it since his voice hadn't changed? Or maybe he studied his father through videos, and developed the accent. Who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Originally posted by ZBomber Or maybe he studied his father through videos, and developed the accent. That's kind of creepy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBomber Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad That's kind of creepy... What isn't creepy about Boba Fett? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 That seems to me to be a more reasonable theory, if we accept the 2004 Editions as superceding all other editions of the movies (which seems to be what Lucas wants), that Boba was so obsessed with living up to his father's legacy that he imitated him down to the accent. He could have spent a lot of time with journals, videos, tapes, etc. of his dad's voice. That scene in AOTC where he lifts his father's helmet to his head could then take on an even deeper meaning. It's like he's trying to channel Jango's soul or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Originally posted by Kurgan If they are independant, fine, but of course that means they may have rebelled against their being treated as slaves & cannon fodder, unless Jango was able to pay them or convince them to be loyal to him somehow. All Clones are loyal to the Republic. The ARC trooopers and Commandos just have some independence to solve problems. Unlike regular clones who obey oders without question and just charge into battle. ARCs and Commandos think before charging into battle and solve problems. ABC-Canon crap sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Well now that's the thing. They just say the clones have "reduced independance." What does that mean exactly? How much? The officers have to have some command ability. Are they just more suggestable by Jedi? And are they more loyal than say, brainwashed recruites? Seems like kind of an open question... Jango's loyalty was bought with money and a "son." Of course, he fought for the Seperatists, ironically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Of course he did, jango worked for the highest bidder. Clones do not. They are bred for the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak All Clones are loyal to the Republic. The ARC trooopers and Commandos just have some independence to solve problems. Unlike regular clones who obey oders without question and just charge into battle. ARCs and Commandos think before charging into battle and solve problems. Phreak sums up the clones perfectly. *quoted for emphasis* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumMayhem Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 You have some very valid points there Kurgan. Ofcourse the ARCs would had to have been growth accelerated, seeing as they would only be Boba's age at the time of their required use. I cant believe my mind skipped something so obvious. Regarding the personality of the ARC Troopers: I believe that seeing as they ARCs themselves were brought up on nothing but military training (especially from Jango himself), they would be well conformed to fight for this army, seeing as they know of nothing better. It could be considered a form of brainwashing. The only difference is that having Fett's personality and personal training made them simply harder to reign in. Thanks to Jango, they; like him, were too good at their job, and I suppose they are a little too independant for the Republic to control them adequately which could have jeopardised the lives of others on missions. I personally dont think their immediate loyalty to the Republic would be an issue - but then again, it's difficult to asses as we've never had any hard evidence of our actions ourselves. All we know of the ARCs is EU which, while enticing; I dont like to refer to at all. (While I have the chance, I would LOVE to see an ARC in action in Episode III - or beyond.. just gimme film footage! *wink*) As for the Clone Commandos and their independance, im certain that the cloners would have reduced it down a few notches after the ARC fiasco, and to counter this step back in fighting potential; came up with the Squad system to balance it back out. One of the designers of the game is quoted as saying something along the lines of "to get the job done you either send in a lone ARC Trooper, a Squad of Clone Commandos, or a group of 100 Clone Troopers" - very well said. Quite a practical numerical analysis of performance ratios. I agree in hope that Lucas has clarified the Clone situation in Episode III. My theory is that, no matter how utterly corrupt the Empire is; people will always be willing to sign up and serve because its a legitamite force - its just how that force is used that gives it an ugly face or not. Similar to military these days. One sees tons of headlines that outline atrocities and war crimes caused by army factions. The Imperial forces are painted as evil, but if you think hard enough, its difficult to place them all in the same basket. Rubio's Troops doesnt quite cross the path of showing the Imps in a positive (or even neutral) light. I think this kind of portrayal will be utilised in Episode III, as I dont assume the Emperor to simply broadcast a codeword to suddenly transform the clones into heartless monsters. Id like to hope there is more to it than all minions of the Emperor becoming evil. Time will tell though As for young Boba's accent, I suppose Concord Dawn is just the Star Wars term for New Zealand, as its the Kiwi accent both father and son share. Im sure as Boba matures, and his voice takes on a more mature tone, it will sound just like dads, seeing as their voice boxes are identical and thus would produce almost; if not identical sound. This is all very exciting! Id like to thank Temuera Morrison for lending his vocal talents to 038. I love the Clone Wars and im a stickler for quality. I appreciate his efforts to make RC all the more authentic. (I was similarly relieved to hear that Kiwi.. ahh.. Concord Dawn accents were included in Battlefront). Here's to an exciting new year for film and SW gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 In the Tie Fighter game, you took on the role of an Imperial Pilot Grunt and it gave you great insight into the Imperial Army's world. They never, ever seemed evil, more just guys that do their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonepadawan Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 FC gave a pretty nice view of the Imperials also.. they made the destruction of the Death Star seem like a great disaster etc.. Also, the actor who plays Scorch and Carth was in that too... so he's had a good experience of 3 era's of SW and 3 totally different characters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Yeah, a lot of stormtroopers were probably drafted from conquered planets. Maybe they'd get shot, or choked if they didn't do their job. That also explains why stormtroopers shoot so bad. They don't want to fight, they just have to. I forgot what i was gonna say about the clones, this'll have to do :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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