Where is the big update?

[Salv]

As far as the JK/JA community getting smaller etc..tough it might be true, this aspect affects mainly multiplayer mods, that said, making an MP mod for a "dead" engine would be pretty pointless, no one is gonna play it. In the other hand you dont need anybody to enjoy a good single player mod, and provided that it is good then it shouldnt matter on what engine or how the graphics look like, as long as it is of good quality and provides a memorable single player experience. Which, if you dont mind me saying it, I think this mod provides.

[Tesla(DF)]

Thousands of people make daily visits here, massassi.net jk2files forums, haps forums, cortos forums(not that many ) And many other places.

 

When this is done, everyone that isn't named padawan when they connect to a server, will know about it. We just would need to immerse the people.

[Ack]

Wow, what's up with all the negativism? "I personally don't think they will finish it" etc... Sure, that might be your personal thought, but if we keep saying this to ourselves and others, it will come true. I'd rather have it that they take it cool, and then get cracklin' at it later, then work so much that they puke over all DF related things ever... Take your time.

 

I'm easy... I guess

[MikeGunther1969]

Gromas is Beta ready.................progress methinks!!

[Dervish108]

I hope this is released

[Fracman]

it will be released... but not right "now".

that takes a while like everything

[Kurgan]

When they say "Big Update" and "Coming Soon" it usually means something won't happen at least for a few months.

 

 

As for the "negativity" look at it from the standpoint of somebody watching your progress. On average, it's taken you a year to do each map. So calculate that based on the number of maps in Dark Forces: 14... so the project will be done in 2015! 10 more years to wait!

 

No offense intended of course.

 

At least you haven't fallen into the trap of Duke Nukem Forever, of upgrading to every new game engine that catches your eye and resetting the project!

 

As I said in the DF2 Mod thread, perhaps a faster way to get some progress on this would be to focus on a "multiplayer pack" (even though DF had no multiplayer). That would get the weapons and skins out there and generate interest. Obviously if you're still working with the limitations of the SP engine, of course none of the weapons would function the same way, but still. This part would be easy compared to re-creating the Single Player maps. I can understand for a project like this it's useless if you don't re-create the SP experience, but still. I think it would "ease the pain of waiting" for the fans a lot more!

 

So give them the 10 weapons, a few taunts, a handful of skins, and let them run around SECBASE in a deathmatch to tide 'em over, I say.

[Fracman]

Hmm good point. Until now, we (the team lead) did not want to release any real multiplayer map to the public since we simply don't have enough time to make both,

single and multi player missions.

But we might have to reconsider that... provided the effort is less then we think now.

[MikeGunther1969]

Darth Linux (welcome Back BTW!!...long time no see on the forums) has also confirmed that Gromas is ready for Beta testing amongst the team members of DF MOD.

 

Progress!!

[Kurgan]

Yeah. Honestly a lot of us would have loved to play Dark Forces multiplayer. Doom on DWANGO was really big back then and many were disappointed DF was SP only.

 

I heard rumors that an MP portion was in progress but never completed, and since the source for DF was never released to the public, we just had to dream until JK came out years later.

 

Toss together a couple of MP maps (secbase would work just fine as is... just make all the doors openable and remove the scripting), the HUD, all the weapons (maybe even a pickup item or two) and a handful of skins. Release that pack and you'll get tons of publicity, testing, and make the wait much more bearable for the fans.

 

And just do the stuff how you plan to do it for SP anyway, just in this pack they'll be fighting other humans and bots instead of AI. So you won't have wasted your time. It doesn't have to be elaborate like Coop (though we all want that someday too), just I'm talking Deathmatch & Team Deathmatch.

[Fracman]

An other idea would be to use the siege mode, but it has not been really investigated by the team actually.

[Kurgan]

Siege would mean more work for you, but I'm not arguing against that, we need more Siege maps!

 

But what would it entail? Kyle, Jan and a bunch of Rebel commandos going on a mission vs. a bunch of different Imperial units? Say to capture/Defend the Death Star plans or guard a Dark Trooper facility? A re-imagining of some of the Dark Forces missions where it's not just Kyle doing all the work? Interesting concept!

[Fracman]

Interesting, but really a lot of work, also in doing a concept for the missions...

thats why it won't be realized soon or at all..

[Kurgan]

Hence why the deathmatch idea is a good starting point.

 

At the end of the day we'd all love to go Serious Sam style and play the entire DF mission set from the drop off at secbase all the way to the final battle with General Mohc with Kyle and Jan dueling blasters or something, but that's right now a mad dream! At least here we could be running around dueling with Assault cannons on Jabba's ship or something with friends/bots.

[compupc1]

Speak for yourselves, unless deathmatch would truly be trivial to implement, I would rather have all efforts focused on the single player experience, which this team has demonstrated such a talent for creating. The deathmatch experience can more or less be replicated in any number of other games; single player campaigns are far more unique. PERSONALLY, I believe this to be the greatest product this mod can offer.

[Ack]

If we're alredy throwing out ideas, I've had a similar thought to your siegetalk... And that would be to make Talay a siege map, with rebel troopers vs Stormtroopers/Darktroopers and reenact the wiping out of rebel forces. I know the rebels hardly had a fight at all, but it could be the "last surviving troopers" kind of thing... I think it would be awesome... On the other hand, seing a phase II dark trooper in full 3d at all would be awesome so... uhm... Never mind this post and keep on doing the single player

[Kurgan]

Hey, we all agree with you, but the trouble is it's going to take them ten years to produce it. Wouldn't you rather wait 6 months and get an MP component?

 

It's not like they'd have to "give up" their time to work on the MP part, since they have already said they are going to use the MP engine anyway. They might as well release it while they're in the process.

 

Using your logic, there is no reason to make this game, because the single player experience can already be replicated in so many other games, and in fact it can be replicated perfectly in Dark Forces itself! The point here was to take advantage of this new engine.

 

Face facts, searching out keys, gunning down enemies and hitting switches are major old school when it comes to FPS's. Dark Forces was rather unique when it came out, but nowadays it's old hat. Republic Commando is a much more complex single player Star Wars FPS that doesn't feature Jedi, Force Powers or Lightsabers of any kind.

 

That's not the issue. The issue is that I figure this way the fans will have something to enjoy, rather than just hoping and dreaming of one day seeing the finished product "when it's done."

 

And as far Dark Forces Mods for other games, I don't know of any that exist. But what is Dark Forces, other than some weapons, models, and a certain "feel" to it? I think the fans would like a multiplayer portion, so it wouldn't be out of spirits to create it, and it would certainly be done a lot faster than re-creating the entire SP experience.

 

If they are serious about completing this, which I don't doubt they are, then this is a completely reasonable request.

 

Deathmatch WOULD be trivial to complete compared to the single player TC. Like I said, it's just a couple of maps and the skins and weapons. There's no scripting needed, no cutscenes, no AI (unless they want to), no voice acting (except a few taunts if they want to spice it up), and no having to deal with the restrictions of the SP SDK.

 

MP would feature the modeling and artwork, the "aesthetics" of this mod. So it would give the deathmatch of JA the "atmosphere" and beauty of Dark Forces. I think that would definately be worth seeing, and worth doing. They wouldn't need to give up anything in order to do it. And once they saw how much better the MP engine does it than SP, they would never need to look back.

 

The SP in JA will never be able to be like Dark Forces, because it can't really be tinkered with. The MP has virtually no limits. You could make the weapons and physics to your own specifications, to be just like DF, or better, whatever. It's a radical comparison. SP Dark Forces Mod using the JA SP engine would be like the first few levels of Jedi Outcast where you only have guns. Frustrating and boring. And while you're being frustrated and bored, you can go "wow, gee these levels look just like dark forces only prettier."

 

I think the MP engine does the game far more justice, and getting people into the spirit with a deathmatch mod would be a simple and good way to start that, and build up the faith of the fan community.

 

There, that's my 2 cents.

[Benevolence]

Much of the time in getting the demos out the door wasn't development as much as changing platforms. From JO to JA SP and now to JA MP. Once we get JA MP working like it should (likely the most difficult task before us right now) development will be much quicker. And I promise you once we get JA MP working, nothing short of an SP SDK, we will be finishing the mod in JA MP.

 

Things are moving and getting done! We aren't dead, I promise!

[Kurgan]

Well converting the entire project to MP will be a lot of work certainly (but worth it in the end). Witness all the work RazorAce has been having to do with Coop. Of course you guys have "only" those 14 (?) maps to do, which is far less than JA had.

 

Converting the models and textures over isn't such a big deal. You don't have to do any coding, just use the regular JA gameplay. A blaster rifle works like a blaster rifle, etc. Now as to coding the new weapons I assume you really didn't have anything done in that regard anyway, since you couldn't do it in SP (I mean all you did was grab firing modes from other guns right? Like making the bowcastor shoot rockets to simulate a fusion cutter sorta, stuff like that?). So that means you'd only have certain weapons right off the bat, like the bryar, fists, ST laser rifle, concussion rifle (I know, it's nowhere close, but it's a fine placeholder), assault cannon (primary fire merr sonn rocket, secondary repeater fire), Thermal Detonators, fusion cutter (bowcastor as a placeholder), IM Mines (trip mines), Mortar (secondary TD's or Secondary Repeater)...and you could adjust the damage/splash damage values later to make them more "accurate" to DF.

[Tesla(DF)]

Just checking in to say I didn't fall off the side of the planet.

 

Testbase hit a speed bump, a bit of mappers-block, so I took a longer brewak than I planned

 

Salv and I talked terrain and everything is peachy except for possible lighting issues.

[MikeGunther1969]

Just in case you haven't noticed, DF MOD Team has very quietly slipped in a HUGE UPDATE. While Small in actual content, the update itself is HUGE, and the content is fantastic. 3 more maps, in 2006... Fest (aka Testbase), Gromas Mines (aka Blood Moon), and the Detention Center (aka Crix Madine's Fate). The Screenshots of the day are also beginning to show some new screenies from these levels as of today.

 

The release of these levels would mean 6 of the original 14 would be complete, and their team definately has at least 4 more in the works...Nar Shaddaa, Ice Station, Jabba's Ship, and Coruscant.

 

Nice going DF MOD Team, you have me all geeked up to play DF once again!!

 

One quick question to DF MOD though...has anything at all been done on levels 7, 12, 13, and 14?...and if so, can you put up a few screenies on the next major site update? Enquiring minds want to know!!

[Fracman]

Heh Mike, it's a dangerous question

Yes, some work was done... but those mappers left a long time ago already and they did not left much to work with.

Screenshots? not worth it, really.

 

We prefer to concentrate on the maps that are currently in the pipe

[SlicerDude]

Sweet! I must say I'm quite excited, and looking forward to it. Can't wait to see more screenshots, too.

[Ack]

Weee. I think this is a very clever move. Releasing levels after levels (which will keep the community interested.) Great job guys! Nice intro

[MikeGunther1969]

Well. I look at it like this....as a HUGE FAN of the entire DF/Kyle Katarn Saga, it would be great if all 14 of the original levels were finished. Having said that, If only the 10 WIP (whch includes everything that is finished and currently in production) end up getting done, I would be down with that as well. I would also however, along with the rest of the entire modding /gaming community, have to beg, plead, whine, cry, snivel, and grovel that the final level (Arc Hammer) gets done.

 

It would only make sense to have the Arc Hammer level (if only a smaller version..sans the puzzles, etc) as the Final level. The world needs to experience once more, the epic battle between our hero Kyle Katarn, and the Infamous General Rom Mohc in all of it's glory. You could simply do it as a duel if it all come down to the fact that it needed to "just be released", but I do think that from an architecture standpoint, the ship would be an easy build if you took the doomgiver map as a base from which to start, and then modified it to suit your needs,

 

Just a thought here.....Keep up the good work....I'm really excited to try out the next 3 levels...particularly the prison level. It was one of my original favorites!!!

 

MG