Dissapointments (spoiler)

[Darth InSidious]

 

Random bashing at its best.

Far too rushed? It wasn't far too rushed. It was fine without M4-78. The absence of Master Vash is another story, but its inclusion or exclusion means nothing.

So yeah, content was "missing". That's relative as the developper removed the content. How can it be missing if it was never meant to be there?

All I'm saying is that things are fine without without M4-78. What if M4-78 was such an uninteresting planet the developpers removed it? Must everything be put on the shoulders of time constraint?

The only reason people are whining is the ending. If from the Ravager to Malachor, things had been done well and felt complete, there would be no complaints. The exclusion of M4-78 just became some sort of whiner "flagship".

 

Thing is, it *was* meant to be there - OE removed it under pressure from LA. All I was doing was offering an opinion that the game felt....rushed towards the end, which I thik is hardly surprising due to the amount of content which had to be cut. The devs themselves told us that they cut it due to time constraint, and frankly I don't see why they'd say that rather than say "well, we cut it cuz it's crap." If you look around the modules, it's clear that they are very incomplete.

 

I think there would be complaints if the ending had been done well, but perhaps they would have been less

 

The game still has lots of bits which were cut midway - the HK factory, or how you originally would have learned sabre forms, for example.

 

And just a nitpick for some other peeps: The TSLRP are *not* restoring M4-78. It's a separate group doing it, who are squatting at the RP forums

 

Edith: And what *is* wrong with the new level system? That you can't reach 50? So what? IMO, it doesn't really make much difference either way.

[90SK]

If I want an intellectual challenge, I can red science books or something; that is not what games/films are there for.

 

I strongly disagree. It's not like every game and movie should fit a specific mold based around action. KotOR II breaks off from the "epic" feel that is generally promoted by Star Wars games (thus the conflict). The biggest problem I see is that you're all thinking in black and white. "Good or bad". Well guess what: we're dealing solely with opinion here. If you state your argument in black in white fashion, you're going to set people off. It can easily be avoided, and "I hate relativism" is hardly an excuse. >_>

[Darth InSidious]

That comment of mine was a joke

[90SK]

Sure, but tell that to all those literalists out there! The point is: do it out of common decency. Nobody likes a negative-Nancy.

[Darth InSidious]

Sure, but tell that to all those literalists out there! The point is: do it out of common decency. Nobody likes a negative-Nancy.

 

Wrong again, Cap'n! Cynical Sid loves Negative Nancy

 

And just because the comment's context is a joke doesn't mean that I don't dislike relativism

[90SK]

Will you stop contradicting me?

 

Besides, I'm pretty sure Doubting Thomas has had dibs on Nance for a while.

 

But seriously, if you were half serious (not to be repetitive), than I stick by what I said.

 

Anyway, it was just an example. You know what I really mean.

[Axe Windu]

Ok Im not whining... its a thread about kotor 2. Im saying I was dissapointed... you argued my points Im argueing yours, its called a debate.

 

Secondly what did you mean by it was my choice to by the game for xbox 2 months early? Your saying if I went out and bought TSL brand new right now it would have a HK factory, a completion to the remote/goto conflict, and a better ending??? If so point the way. Its not my fault that TSL was released before they had sufficient time to complete it.

 

How am I whining by stating things that are clearly obvious to anyone who plays the game. Since the training module they introduce these HK 50s. Much of the plot is built around them. You finally figure out how to track them and get HK to say hes gonna find them and nothing. They just get cut out cause of lack of time. They made half a plot about something. Same goes with the goto/remote conflict. They make you play a lv where you go around as remote for 15 minutes. Then there comes a movie with goto and remote. There is supposed to be a conclusion to that movie. Not concluding it made no sense. That conclusion looks like it woudlve been cool but it wasnt there. What a dissapointment... how is that my fault? What about the ending? The ending to KOTOR was like a long and conclusive video... the ending to this was a 15 second film that didnt even make sense. The Ebon Hawk is flying presumidly to the unknown region... what happened to remote... what happened to the crew... if your evil it just shows the core... what is that. This may be an unrealistic statement but there was not one person who played that game and went wow this ending was great! I bet most of the fans were generally let down. And your defense is well it got cut? They shouldnt have cut it, they shouldve dedicated more time to having this make sense.

 

Unless I can log onto xbox live and fill in all my plot holes via downloadable contect or something this game was dissapointing. You can not have three plotlines that are inconclusive and a bad ending. Sure theres great graphics and force powers and all that and Id play the game again and again your right its not a bad game but its not as good as the other one and there are points which are a let down.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Thing is, it *was* meant to be there - OE removed it under pressure from LA. All I was doing was offering an opinion that the game felt....rushed towards the end, which I thik is hardly surprising due to the amount of content which had to be cut. The devs themselves told us that they cut it due to time constraint, and frankly I don't see why they'd say that rather than say "well, we cut it cuz it's crap." If you look around the modules, it's clear that they are very incomplete.

 

The fact that people left Korriban for the last planet (in general) has nothing to do with the rushed feeling at the end. You could have started with Korriban.

Besides, has the possibility that it was removed due to not fitting in been considered? I guess not. The reason M4-78 exists is to have a place for Master Vash to hide. Yet, a single human on a planet full of droids sticks out like a sore thumb. What else would there be left? The origins of HK and G0-T0, for a single planet.

It becomes one huge sidequest.

 

Perhaps with time they could have changed it so it fits in, perhaps not.

 

I think there would be complaints if the ending had been done well, but perhaps they would have been less

 

There would have been virtually none.

 

The game still has lots of bits which were cut midway - the HK factory, or how you originally would have learned sabre forms, for example.

 

I agree about the saber forms, but not about the HK factory. If the entire story arc about discovering HK-47's origins related to G0-T0 and M4-78 is removed for X reason, then this had to be removed too.

Besides, it doesn't with in the grand scheme of elements.

 

And just a nitpick for some other peeps: The TSLRP are *not* restoring M4-78. It's a separate group doing it, who are squatting at the RP forums

 

It matters little as it is requested by mostly whiners.

[BattleDog]

I think that the HK factory is felt. Its needed for the HK plot to fully make sense, however, the ending is the biggy. M4-78 is irrellevant, I didn't notice anything missing, I had no inkling until I came back to the forums after finishing the game. What can be said is that most of the planets do feel small, however this is due to poor design. KOTOR planets weren'e big, they were just fiendishly designed. Tatooine is four oustide areas, with very little in any other than the town. The trip is the way the areas are modelled, they seem bigger than they are.

[Darth InSidious]

The fact that people left Korriban for the last planet (in general) has nothing to do with the rushed feeling at the end. You could have started with Korriban.

Besides, has the possibility that it was removed due to not fitting in been considered? I guess not. The reason M4-78 exists is to have a place for Master Vash to hide. Yet, a single human on a planet full of droids sticks out like a sore thumb. What else would there be left? The origins of HK and G0-T0, for a single planet.

It becomes one huge sidequest.

You refuse to listen to me. M478 was missed out because there wasn't time - if you look at what remains it's obvious. If it was simply a crap planet, why begin it in the first place?

 

Perhaps with time they could have changed it so it fits in, perhaps not.

Well, we'll never know now

 

There would have been virtually none.

Sorry, here's me still thinking inter-dimensional travel was impossible

Stupid me

 

I agree about the saber forms, but not about the HK factory. If the entire story arc about discovering HK-47's origins related to G0-T0 and M4-78 is removed for X reason, then this had to be removed too.

Besides, it doesn't with in the grand scheme of elements.

Originally,yes, but actually, they moved the HK factory to Telos, and were working around the M4-78 integration problems. Again, the factor was time.

 

It matters little as it is requested by mostly whiners.

Y'know, you could *try* not to sound so much like a brat

What you're saying is the equivalent of "I disagree with this because you agree with it, and you smell!" It's really not helpful, or indeed very mature

[lukeiamyourdad]

You refuse to listen to me. M478 was missed out because there wasn't time - if you look at what remains it's obvious. If it was simply a crap planet, why begin it in the first place?

 

Perhaps they didn't think about it at first. They did begin Sleyheyron in K1 too you know.

Many things sound fine on paper but when you starting to build it or make it, it turns out it wasn't such a good idea.

 

Sorry, here's me still thinking inter-dimensional travel was impossible

Stupid me

 

I'm making that hypothesis based on the basic reaction of most KotOR players.

 

Originally,yes, but actually, they moved the HK factory to Telos, and were working around the M4-78 integration problems. Again, the factor was time.

 

Here, you mention integration problems. Was time the only factor? Could it be that it just didn't fit in?

Again, if the move to Telos makes no sense. It's right there in the middle of your path the first time you enter the compound. It would be horribly odd not to be able to enter it at first but suddenly, you could. It's strange backtracking.

 

 

Y'know, you could *try* not to sound so much like a brat

What you're saying is the equivalent of "I disagree with this because you agree with it, and you smell!" It's really not helpful, or indeed very mature

 

You have no lesson to give me.

[Axe Windu]

Ok not to be selfish but coudl captain skye and whoever just posted please respond to what I said! I want my points disputed and questions answered

[90SK]

The plot wasn't "build around" the HK factory. It was a sidequest; they wouldn't have cut it if it had been essential to the plot.

 

Aside from that, everything has been gone over. As long as you complain about what's missing in the game it'll be categorized under "whining". Because we've already heard it. Again and again.

 

Seriously, a mod should just post a sticky FAQ thing on the ending, HK factory, and G0-T0/Remote cutscene. It's getting to the point were it's almost like spam.

 

 

@InSidious

I would say the same for you. Braying about how much the game sucked, giving no hint at possible pros, isn't exactly a savory trait. Stating your opinion is one thing, but doing it in a respective non-inflammatory manner is important.

[Axe Windu]

Skye I still wanna know what you meant by it was my fault for buying the game 2 months early? And so what its been gone over again and again gues what thats why the game was DISSAPOINTING a fact which you dispute yet havnt given me a reason why. You didnt go over it you said oh its cut content deal with it. You dont make a game like this then cut major things. And the HK factory was a MAJOR part of the plot.

[90SK]

Unless you don't have a PC capable of playing KotOR II, you had a choice between the PC and X-Box version.

 

And the HK factory wasn't a MAJOR part of the plot, for the same reason I stated above. It was a side quest (just because the HK-50 droids are present doesn't mean that you'll inevitably come to the dialogue about finding them).

 

And so what its been gone over again and again gues what thats why the game was DISSAPOINTING

 

To you! It’s your opinion! Do I sound like a broken record? Because I feel like one. If people would buckle down and cope with a situation that constant complaining won’t change, we wouldn’t have pour through the same points over and over and over and over and over again.

[Darth InSidious]

Perhaps they didn't think about it at first. They did begin Sleyheyron in K1 too you know.

Many things sound fine on paper but when you starting to build it or make it, it turns out it wasn't such a good idea.

Do a comparison of the Sleheyron modules, and the modules for M4-78. With Sleheyron they'd done bugger all, with the Droid planet they were waist deep. By that point taking it out was expensive. A large portion of dialogue and a lot of Voice-Overs were done. If you're unsure about a planet, you wouldn't hire in voice actors. I'm sorry, but that's just financial nonsense. Also, Vash was hiding on Korriban, escaped the Sith there, and was supposedly heard of the Sith on M4-78, realised the threat and decided to take action. Or something like that.

 

I'm making that hypothesis based on the basic reaction of most KotOR players.

Most KotOR players posting here, I believe you mean .

 

Here, you mention integration problems. Was time the only factor? Could it be that it just didn't fit in?

Again, if the move to Telos makes no sense. It's right there in the middle of your path the first time you enter the compound. It would be horribly odd not to be able to enter it at first but suddenly, you could. It's strange backtracking.

It's cuz it would only open for an HK unit. Or something. That's what the "sublevel" was, and why there's a malfunctioning HK-50 there. It was an old Republic base, and it is full of droids. Of course it was back-tracking, they were trying to find a place to fit it when the Droid Planet was cut. Yes it's a side-quest, but it's a pretty big one, IMHO. Heck, it was almost complete, too.

 

 

 

You have no lesson to give me.

"Fool! Like all Jedi you hear but you do not *listen*!"

[90SK]

Do a comparison of the Sleheyron modules, and the modules for M4-78.

 

How? Look at the two screenshots and one bum module?

[johnhawke]

the devs said they're eyes were to big for their stomach, they bit of more than they could chew, they flew to close to the sun, etc. there was a 2 page article of computer game developer about this very thing, they got rushed so they sent it out half complete. Pity, but that what happens when you rush things. It's still a good game in it's own merits, it's just not a worthy successor to KOTOR1. Maybe K3 will make up for that sick feeling in our collective stomachs. (I can only hope.)

[90SK]

^^^

I agree, though I think that it's better more as a standalone than as a sequel. Sort of a separate game that ends up tieing in with the original KotOR. Sort of a spin-off, you know?

[johnhawke]

yeah, what cap said, it didn't leave me disappointed, I just think it coulda been more. I like how the drew Revan into the storyline without bringing him all the way in.

[Axe Windu]

Ok... you dont like me saying its a dissapointment. Even though almost everyone but yourself has admitted they were bummed about left out content Im still stating my opinion. First off no **** its my opinion Im the one stating that and I dont have to say it infront of what I say to make it so. People know its my opinion by reading that I said it. So if your a broken record we should put you on mute because everyone knows its my opinion. I didnt say its a scientific and unarguable fact that Knighty Olds is a dissapointment.

 

It is a fact that it is obvious to anyone who plays this game that there are issues that are impossible to resolve. Such as HK50s, GoTo and Remote, and the crappy ending amoung other things. I can not say it is a fact but I am willing to bet that everyone who played this game after wandering around as remote for 15 minutes and having a cutscene that went no where and then watching the 30 second ending was a lil let down. A lil let down surprised shocked whatever. There was atleast some feeling of what was that. Also you knew there was a feeling of the game was incomplete. Im not saying it was a horrible game or the game in its whole was a total dissapointment, Im just saying upon beating it I was dissapointed. Are you going to dispute this?

 

Thirdly your statement about me buying an xbox makes no sense. So I bought the game for xbox... its my fault there is missing content? Its my fault there not putting it back in. Obsidian Entertainment and LucasArts made a roleplaying game based on one of there most popular games ever (in LAs case) that had huge chunks of it missing because they rushed it out. Your rebutal was oh there fixing it. Whose fixing it team gizka? Im not gonna be able to plug in my xbox and have the game whole. That is not my fault. Until that happens this game was a let down because it is missing chunks of it. I dont know why LA and Obsidian dont just fix it and make a downloable thing for xbox live. I mean if they were gonna rush it they shouldve done something about these things like gave you atleast some explanation. HK goes oh were gonna find the HK50s the robots that the plot keeps mentioning throughout the game and you get nothing. It was a major part of the plot, not neccisary but major, they were in many scenes and brought up time and time again. Or why couldnt they have not shown remote going to do the mass shadow thing at the end instead of just leaving it halfway. Check my post What about this or something like that in the Knighty Olds 3 thread. Its the only one that would make sense of this mumbo jumbo.

[90SK]

So you're saying that you thought the left out content was dissapointing, and not the entire game? Sure, I agree. And no, I don't deny it was disappointing in some aspects. But it isn't fact, and you were of stating it as an absolute. Or at least that’s the way it was coming off. I was a bit miffed with the ending too. I'm not trying to say KotOR was a saintly game of super awesomeness; it's just not the steaming pile of crap everyone seems to be eluding too.

 

And it was your choice to get it for X-Box. They said not Live support. So, presumably, you knew that if a mod or patch was to be released that restored the content, you wouldn't be having any of it. PC versions have always been more flexible. If you were oblivious, than it's just an inconvenience.

[johnhawke]

for crying out loud, how many more threads are gonna be started about the suckiness of this game before some one realizes that theres absolutely nothing more that can be done about it? I mean just because we complain from now till armageddon about it isn't gonna make LA decide to pick the game up and finish it... So unless you're waiting for team gizka, than keeping a subject as old as this alive is just beating a dead horse. Sure the game wasn't what it was hyped up to be, but it had a lot of cool features that even the saintly KOTOR didn't have, so why not just accept it for what it is? A cool game in it's own merit.

[90SK]

I whole heartedly agree.

[Axe Windu]

Ok someone just give me a way to bitch at LA so I can be happy. Its people like you guys that make games like this and fable happen.