JRHockney* Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 mmm, not sure. Maybe we should do that for all kicks? Yeah, maybe. But if that ends up being the case, I would like to see back kick knock people back a bit further for movie realism sake and for the sake of a little better usage. Couldn't hurt, especially with the risk factor. I think kicks should be there to give the defender a short rest after a good beating, not enough to get his dp back fully but not enough to save him from death everytime he does it, think about that one Hmm, I'm not sure what I think about that one. Maybe. However, we have actually been trying to make it so that it is easier to finish off defenders because fights still seem too long at the moment. Staves for example should keep the extra dp drain, with a staff you can deliver good strong slashes equally with both sides. As a con, staff users should be extra vulnerable to kick in some way. Duals have almost always worked like this; 1 saber is used for defense and the other one for offense. Following that rule, duals should lose the bigger dp drain (if thats possible) but dual users (being ambidextrous) shouldnt get bigger dp loss for back hits Actually, we've been doing things almost exactly opposite to that lately. Staff we have seen as more of a solid defense weapon because it has alot of surface area and is two handed in its grap which makes it a strong blocking weapon. We've tried to make it so that it is easier to take on two people at a time with it (like maul vs quigon and obi) without overpowering it. Unfortunately, allowing it to absorb 75% of all hit damage just made it too hard to defeat and overpowered it. I don't see staff as being that powerful of an attack weapon because its really only about jabs. Its just to awkward to try and wind up a powerful swing when a blade is protruding out of the other end and the grip makes on it makes powerful swings even more awkward(imagine if a light saber was a baseball bat and trying to get a powerful swing on a ball with a staff as opposed to a single saber; it just doesnt have the same leverage). Duals we've seen as more of an offense weapon used to overwhelm opponents with hits (kind of like what anakin tried to do to dooku). But because each saber is only held with one hand, we've imagined it as not as strong defensively, but we haven't moved to make it that way (DP wise) and I'm not sure thats a good idea after what happened with the staff. The attack is obviously too overpowered at the moment because both blades often hit (not all the time) for 12 DP each which is why I suggested lowering it to 9 or 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Both blades simply CAN'T hit at the same time like some people have been suggesting. The code doesn't allow it. I suspect it has more to do with the dual sabers using more spinning transition moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Yeah, maybe. But if that ends up being the case, I would like to see back kick knock people back a bit further for movie realism sake and for the sake of a little better usage. Couldn't hurt, especially with the risk factor. I don't think the rear kicks were more effective in the movies. Maul did several side kicks that were just as effective. As for dual sabers, both blades simply CAN'T hit at the same time like some people have been suggesting. The code doesn't allow it. I suspect it has more to do with the dual sabers using more spinning transition moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 I don't think the rear kicks were more effective in the movies. Maul did several side kicks that were just as effective. Oh yeah, watch the Episode 3 dooku fight. Dooku chokes obi and muel kicks anakin across the room practically. As for dual sabers, both blades simply CAN'T hit at the same time like some people have been suggesting. The code doesn't allow it. I suspect it has more to do with the dual sabers using more spinning transition moves. Well, It has to do with something. I've watched as a bot hit my like twice and half my DP was gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Oh yeah, watch the Episode 3 dooku fight. Dooku chokes obi and muel kicks anakin across the room practically. It's not that far, Anakin really just falls into a wall corner about 10 feet away. Well, It has to do with something. I've watched as a bot hit my like twice and half my DP was gone. We'll do some tests on the server when I have the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 It's not that far, Anakin really just falls into a wall corner about 10 feet away. Well, he was in the air when he hit the wall though. Thats strong enough to be considered a bit stronger that most of the other movie kicks. Besides, since you are at a risk turning your back to the person, the kick should be a bit stronger. I guess its not that big of a deal, but it would help a bit in two on one and it is movie realistic. Btw, if you havent already, you really should check out that map I sent you the link for. I've never had so much fun on a map before! Here's the link in case anyone else wants to see it: http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Twilight_Manor;60858 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I think the kick power was a factor of Dooku's power rather than a directional thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 I think the kick power was a factor of Dooku's power rather than a directional thing. Yeah, I'm sure it was, but it's still movie realistic! LOL! Anyways, I still think its a good idea just because its a bigger risk to try and use a back kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sushi_CW Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Just wanted to bump up a reminder that something needs to be done about saberlocks. They do precisely nothing at the moment. For now, how about making them cause knockdowns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 Just wanted to bump up a reminder that something needs to be done about saberlocks. They do precisely nothing at the moment. For now, how about making them cause knockdowns? Fine with me. I'm sick of those doing next to nothing. I don't like tiring my hand out for a standard hit of DP damage or what ever it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 Alright, Before people get too comfortable with the attack fake the way it is, I think it is necessary to restate why I think it is such a bad idea to keep it this way: 1.Its overcomplecated, unrealistic, and backwards to what it should be, thus confusing the hell out of new people. Having an attack fake that can be parried, but causes slowbounces when hitting an opponent right is plenty useful and a more realistic alternative. 2.Cannot really be swung at intentionally. You might think it can be, but what your really doing is normal swinging constantly as a precaution and to hit your opponent. The only time it can really be swung at is when your opponent "overfakes" his attack swing making it too obvious not to swing at. The truth is, the attack fake can be done fast enough that by the time your opponent realizes its an attack fake and swings, its already hit. Future OJP players will learn this and it will this and find ways to spam it to death, just as many have done with certain MB2 moves. 3. There are more realistic ways of breaking through parrying, many of which are in planning at the moment. Btw, did you (razor or sushi) notice how I was using lightning tonight and giving myself an opening in your attack by stopping it? Thats another future spam city waiting to happen. I would recommend stopping the lightning block anim the second the lightning stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBitG Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Fine with me. I'm sick of those doing next to nothing. I don't like tiring my hand out for a standard hit of DP damage or what ever it is. Hmm, it seemed worse than that, when Sush and i were on the Tharagon (SP?) server today, (Which by the way, has saber lock set waaaay to high) he managed to win four saber locks in a row against me. I was on red DP after the first one, and his saber went right through me several times, yet i took no damage other than force points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 Hmm, it seemed worse than that, when Sush and i were on the Tharagon (SP?) server today, (Which by the way, has saber lock set waaaay to high) he managed to win four saber locks in a row against me. I was on red DP after the first one, and his saber went right through me several times, yet i took no damage other than force points. I have actually killed someone with it though. Probably a once in a lifetime occurance for Enhanced! LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sushi_CW Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Wouldn't hurt if DP regen paused for both players during a saberlock. And maybe instead of a knockdown, we could have a random mishap for the loser and the loss of a sizeable chunk of DP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Maybe if the loser can pull off a sequence of key punches in the mishap, you could create kind of a "desperation saber lock" to save him from *probable* death. Would be fun to have some REALLY tense moments in a saber duel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 26, 2006 Author Share Posted April 26, 2006 Maybe if the loser can pull off a sequence of key punches in the mishap, you could create kind of a "desperation saber lock" to save him from *probable* death. Would be fun to have some REALLY tense moments in a saber duel. Key punches? I'm not following you here. You mean if the mishap is a disarm and the disarm guy punches the saberist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 Hey razor, I'm starting to forget what we were planning with the primer/alternate swing idea, but I remember that originally we were thinking of making the primers blocked with normal parry and regular attacks blocked with attack parry. I think using attack parry in this case would be too hard. How about an opposite direction parry for normal attack or vice versa? Basically, make the whatever attack we feel will be used less require pressing the opposite of the normal parry direction to block. There should also be a slight difference in the appearance of both swings so theyre not impossibe to tell apart (which would mean too much seemingly random occurances). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Key punches? I'm not following you here. You mean if the mishap is a disarm and the disarm guy punches the saberist? No man, for example: A guy goes into a mishap, if he succeeds to press a combination of keys like back-forward-fake he would go into a new saberlock when the enemy hits him. Desperation ftw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 No man, for example: A guy goes into a mishap, if he succeeds to press a combination of keys like back-forward-fake he would go into a new saberlock when the enemy hits him. Desperation ftw! Hmm. We had desperation moves in the past by giving more DP if you parry a move when your very low on DP, but we got rid of it because fights became too long. Although, with the speed at which the combat takes place now, we probably could allow for something like this if it only happens at low DP. The only problem with this is that if you if you go into a disarm mishap, its going to look pretty strange to suddenly end up in a saber lock or even with a knockdown mishap to suddenly be on your feet in a saberlock. Remember, Mishaps include: disarms, stumbling, knockdowns, and disarm/knockdown combinations. The slow bounce and heavy bounce are not considered mishaps. For slowbounces and heavy bounces, it might work because they happen so quickly, but I'm worried that players would get too good at anticipating when they would get slow bounced and we might end up with 10 minute long fights again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 How about an opposite direction parry for normal attack or vice versa? That sounds completely counter-intuitive. I don't think we should do that. Maybe doing the wrong parry shouldn't cause more inbalance in the attacker but would still count as a parry? No man, for example: A guy goes into a mishap, if he succeeds to press a combination of keys like back-forward-fake he would go into a new saberlock when the enemy hits him. Desperation ftw! When we tried the desperations, they only articifically made the fights last longer. Anyway, like I stated earlier, I'm against any sort of static button combos. They're cheesy and they'd be a pain-in-the-butt to impliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 That sounds completely counter-intuitive. I don't think we should do that. Yeah, I guess I'm still thinking too much along the lines of my original idea. Maybe doing the wrong parry shouldn't cause more inbalance in the attacker but would still count as a parry? Ok, you lost me here. This system is so out of the ordinary I'm having a hard time keeping it in my mind. When we tried the desperations, they only articifically made the fights last longer. Anyway, like I stated earlier, I'm against any sort of static button combos. They're cheesy and they'd be a pain-in-the-butt to impliment. Oh yeah, well...(forward, down, down/forward, forward+punch) SHAAAROOOKAN!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Yeah they're cheesy, try to ignore as much drug-induced comments of mine as you can I'd like to bring out the fact that lunges are currently a bit overpowered if you know how to use them correctly. If someone is slashing at you, or you get parried, and you succeed to perform a lunge at your attacker he loses a big bit if not all of his DP. Can this be looked at? And can we make attack fakes do a bit more damage? It seems killing someone without using DFA's, lunges or backwhacks seems like a very hard thing to do now. Oh, and great work so far all of you. Im convincing more and more friends into playing OJP, yesterday me and Ripley played a while on the code server. Both him and me loved it. The new changes as I wanted to say are also a godsend, OJP is on its way to becoming great. Oh and Ace, when you get the time please send me that saberblade.glm? I have a week off of school coming up so I think im going to devote it to working on those animations Excuse my horrid grammar, I aint feeling too well this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 no one ever listens to me about the FP fatigue.... As for the saverblade.glm, it should be in your mailbox now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 no one ever listens to me about the FP fatigue.... WHAT!!? ....I CANT HEAR YOU.... YOu NEED TO SPEAK UP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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