Keyan Farlander Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 K_K, you are pretty much right in everything that you said. Works alone don't do it - indeed, you cannot do good works without the grace of God. Those Bible verses say you NEED faith, and that is absolutely true - that is not in dispute. But they do not imply that you can "sit on your ass." Look at Mat 25:32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 who says i sit on my ass? (well i do actaully) But in no way do i make a point is saying "Jesus died for me, so i dont need to do anything". I wouldn't be a christain if i did that. but i do not need to do good works to earn salvation, or Prove to anyone that i have been saved. As i said before, "Becasue I am a Christain, I do good works". and not "I do good works, because I am a Christain" Can you undertstand the differance? We all should memorize this: John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever belives in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. and teach it to all belivers and unbelivers. *THAT* is our job, share the "Good News", and increase fellow Christains Faith by USING the "Good News" The rest God will take care of [This message has been edited by K_Kinnison (edited April 08, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 You're just repeating yourself now, and not responding to me. Look up the passage I pointed out in my last post in this thread and tell me you don't have to do good works. Good works are not a way to earn your own salvation, they are a way of using the gift of the Cross to make your salvation come about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 so jesus's death doesn't save me? it means nothing? And i actually have to do something more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 No, it is a gift, but like any gift, it is useless unless you accept it and USE it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR2000Z Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 Because of His Death, he opened the Gates of Heaven so the souls can go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 that dont quite figure correctly. it is a gift I have to pay for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold leader Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 No, you just have believe in Him and try to follow the example He set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ike Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 KK, you contradict yourself left and right. We are to follow Christ's example, and that is to serve and to love. During the Last Supper, which we remember this coming Thursday, Jesus taught the lesson of service when he washed the feet. He said "As I have done, so you must do". What is service? It is an ACTION, a WORK. And of course there is the verse of "greater love hath no man..." What did Jesus do for us? An ACTION of laying down his life for us. Love is an ACTION word. If we love God, we must DO his will, we must spread the Good News, we MUST feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, etc., lest Jesus tell us to depart from his sight. We CAN do any kind of work or action, even ones that look charitable on the outside, but if we do not have love, as Paul says, it has no merit for us. Believeing in Christ and Loving Christ and acting in Love is what shows we are Christians. "they will know we are Christians by our love" It is NOT enough to just say you believe in Jesus. You must show it by your life, by your actions, by your works. If you do not have any works, your faith is dead, and you will not get into heaven. Oh, and this line: "Becasue I am a Christain, I do good works". and not "I do good works, because I am a Christain"is totally redundant. You should say, rather, Becasue I am a Christian, I do good works". and not "Because I do good works, I am a Christian"But I disagree with that statement. If, as you say, real good works are not possible without belief, then it should stand to reason that a non-baptized person is therefor a Christian if they, in fact, do good works with love in their heart. [This message has been edited by Ike (edited April 09, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 I think you are getting confused between salvation and the chistian life. Our Salvation is brought about by Father, Son and holy spirit. No one else gets the Credit for saving us, and bringing us to heaven A Christian life is somethign we do, to thank God for Salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ike Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 You must live a Christian Life in order to be saved. Don't you see? we must live as Jesus lived in order for us to get to heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Conor Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 "What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, be warmed and filled,' without giving them the thingsneeded for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead." James 2:14-17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue 9 Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 I think I'll just ignore denominations, and say I am A Christan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 Originally posted by Rogue 9: I think I'll just ignore denominations, and say I am A Christan You must have a credo of some sort, though. You must believe or not believe certain things. Calling yourself Christian is far too general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue 9 Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 ok, very well, My denomination is Protestant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 Very specific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue 9 Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 you want specific, here you go... I Believe the Bible is the inspired, infallible and authoritative Word of God. I BELIEVE that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I BELIEVE in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father and His personal future return to this earth in power and glory to rule over the nations. I BELIEVE that the only means of being cleansed from sin is through repentance and faith in the precious blood of Christ. I BELIEVE that regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential for personal salvation. I BELIEVE that the redemptive work of Christ on the cross provides healing of the human body in answer to believing prayer. I BELIEVE in the Spirit-filled life by whose indwelling the Christian is given the power to live a victorious and effective life. I BELIEVE in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost, the one to everlasting life and the other to everlasting damnation. was that more specific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 No I mean stuff like predestination, for example. If you believe in that, you may well be suited to a Presbyterian church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue 9 Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 predestined, Hmmmm...not really. I believe god has a plan for everyone's life, but because he has given us free will it is up to us to decide to follow his plan. [This message has been edited by Rogue 9 (edited April 09, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zoom Rabbit Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 You may pigeonhole me in the category: 'Christian Mystic Samurai.' Is there anyone else in here besides me? Hello? <font size=1>Anyone at all?</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 Originally posted by Rogue 9: predestined, Hmmmm...not really. I believe god has a plan for everyone's life, but because he has given us free will it is up to us to decide to follow his plan. OK, that's a bit more specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 Originally posted by Ike: You must live a Christian Life in order to be saved. Don't you see? we must live as Jesus lived in order for us to get to heaven. I feel sorry for you Ike if you fel that you need to do something more in order to be saved. And you have lost your trust in what God has done for you. Salvation is 100% paid for. All we need to do is know what happened on that cross, and we are given a place in heaven. Look at the thief on the cross with Jesus, he first ridiculed Jesus, then realized he deserved to die, but Christ didn't. he confessed his faith to Jesus, and was granted a place in heaven. He didn't have to "live a christain life" to be saved. All he needed to do was believe, and let GOd do the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ike Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 KK, that is a poor example. First of all, where is it noted that the Good Thief (Dismas) ever ridiculed Christ? Second of all, we don't know what kind of life he lived before he became a thief. Third of all, the circumstances were quite unique in that: a. Christ, who reads souls, was right there. b. He was about to die. Finally, Dismas expressed sorrow for his sins and belief in Christ. He did an ACTION. Christ, being able to read his soul, saw his true sorrow and granted him forgiveness. The state of your soul is what determines where you go when you die. If you have grave sin on your soul, I hope you like it hot. We have given you numerous verses that attest to the necessity of living out your faith by works and actions. Here is another: The parable of the talents in which the three men are given X number of talents. The two men invest theirs and get a return, while the thrid buries his in the ground. The third man was then expelled from the Master's house. Imagine the talents being our faith. If we have faith but don't invest it, i.e. do anything with it, then we gain nothing and our faith is dead. What do you think the 10 commandments are for? They guide our ACTIONS. And it is not all about Thou Shalt Not. Each commandment has positive aspects to it; aspects about DOING things. If you promptly obey your parents without complaining, you have just done what is considered a GOOD WORK. I think you have a very narrow definition of what is considered a WORK. A WORK is not only about going way out of your way to do something for someone, like donating lots of time and money to charities, or setting up a soup kitchen or anything like that. Anything that is done in line with God's Commandments is a Good Work. It is clear from the Gospels that Jesus wants us to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, visit the sick and imprisoned. Do you not recall the parable of the sheep and goats? Those who did not do all those things were sent to hell. Those who went to heaven (the sheep) were the ones who DID (i.e. as in a WORK) all those things. "Not every one who cries out "Lord, Lord" will be saved, but those who do the will of my father in heaven will be saved." Matt 7:21 I'm not getting through to you, am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 Originally posted by Conor: "What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, be warmed and filled,' without giving them the thingsneeded for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead." James 2:14-17 I mean, this just about sums up the whole thing. One cannot possibly maintain a belief in sola fide in light of this passage. It is just not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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