Commandos vs. Spartans

[Niner_777]

I'm trying not to spoil anything.

 

After Darman's experiences in Hard Contact, I definitly don't think that he will, and I don't think that he'd let his squadmates do it either, if they had wanted to. Let's just say that Omega Squad has had better experiences with jedi than Delta Squad has had, from what I know of course.

[jedimasterjesse]

Read the Halo Books, and you will see why Spartans would win.

 

They are trained from the age of 6, taught the art of Warfare, Rules of Engagement, and Stealth, and only the strong survive.

 

Spartans would win, and read Halo: The Fall of Reach to see why.

 

 

I've read 'em all, the RC books and the Spartan books. And I still say Commando. Spartans as you say were trained from 6. Commandos were trained from birth. The DC-17 (and its attachments) could out-gun the Assault rifle any day. The armors are basically the same, I might give a SLIGHT advantage to the spartan on this one, just cuz they make a bigger deal of it. The person inside, the real difference? Commandos are perfect fighters. They've been bred, more or less, to eliminate the enemy. The spartans have been plucked from ordinary lives (albiet very young) and augmented to do the same task.But if we were boxing, say, I'd put my money on the spartan. But in real combat, Commando.

[Bomberman65]

Yeah you make some intresting points there jedimasterjesse. I was thinking something like that cause I've got and read all the halo books and I'm half way through RC:TZ.

So yeah I agree with you.

[Niner_777]

Me too. The commandos seem better trained and better equipped, where as the spartans are just abnormally strong/etc. I'm not saying that spartans were'nt well trained or equipped though, because they were.

[Bomberman65]

Yeah its just that commandos were bred since the were consious Spartans weren't.

[taclled]

besides commandoes are trained by mandalorians in every tyype of warfare that the mandalorians have faced and used. also the commandoes have altered genes to make them almost perfect so id put my money on a commando.

[Niner_777]

That's true, also.

[Redtech]

Commandos are "docile" compared to Jango or Null Arcs. Spartens are biologically and cybenetically upgraded.

[taclled]

yes but there can be a full regimant of spartans in and on scorpions coming at a squad of commandoes from all sides and they will be playing catch with a permacrete detonator's det. one accitdently pushes the button and there are no more spartans or scorpions. and that commanod will be saying "oops sorry for all the commotion, guys" or " keep it down will ya"

[Bomberman65]

Yeah cause the commandos would probally have gone on a stealth\reconnaissance mission earlier and laid out mines and dets on the tanks and things. So I think the commandos would have the upper hand in it. But thats just me.

[Just_Darrell]

Really these kinds of discussions are doomed to not go very far, given that you're not even comparing apples to oranges, you're comparing watermelons to mountain goats. The different universes they exist in really don't do well for comparisons between what a Spartan can do versus a Clone Commando, not to mention even if they WERE in the same universe, you're dealing with a fictional universe which is dictated by imagination alone, not by any kind of universal law. However, that doesn't mean the discussion isn't fun to have now and then anyway.

 

For a bit of background, I've played both Halo and Halo 2. I'm a fan of the Halo genre and the storyline, though I have never read any of the books. I like Master Chief, I like Cortana, and I eagerly await Halo 3. Conversely, I love Republic Commando, and though I am not a "Warsie", I hold a love for the Republican Clone army (Though not so much after they become Stormtroopers for the Empire). Star Wars Episode II is one of my favorite movies only because of the Clone troopers. Jango and Boba Fett are awesome, hands down. Jedi are neat and all, but the games really aren't true to fluff, so to speak. Jedi are all about diplomacy first, fighting last. You would rarely see a Jedi racking up a kill count like they do in Jedi Academy; however, Clone Troopers and their genetic source (Jango Fett, and later came Boba) fight on a regular basis because it's part of the foundation of who they are. So, I'm a fan of both games.

 

There is a similarity between a Spartan and Commando in that both are not really natural; they're artificially created to serve a purpose of war. Spartans are taken as children and then biologically enhanced, trained, psychologically prepared, and given the best armor/weapons available. Commandos are artificially created clones born in a laboratory, and from the moment they are born they are prepared for war. They are not as biologically enhanced as Spartans, but they are just as well equipped, and their own natural abilities are respectable, though not superhuman. We can say, at a glance, their training is roughly equal (One begins at six, the other begins at birth. However, much of the Clone's first years are undoubtedly focused on things like learning basic battlefield knowledge, as you can hardly expect a toddler to train for combat conditions). Their equipment is roughly equal (They both have what amounts to the "best of the best" available). Biologically, however, we can't deny the Spartan is far ahead of the Commando; the Spartan can survive falls from extreme heights, flip over tanks, and for God's sake they're at least seven feet tall.

 

So, on paper, the Spartan would come out on top. Commandos and Spartans are both soldiers since childhood, they are both equipped with the best gear, but Spartans are walking juggernauts compared to the far more human-like Commandos. But we all know paper is not the same when under fire.

 

Let's assume a Commando and Spartan meet on some fictional battlefield with "standard mission" equipment. They do not know who they are fighting, or in what terrain they will be fighting, only that they will be fighting. They will have a well-rounded arsenal that will represent being able to fight at long-range, or short-range combat. They will only have weapons that they would be "naturally" armed with (Spartan will not have Covenant Weapons as secondary, Commando will not have Geonosian/Seperatist/Trandoshan weaponry as secondary). The equipment list would probably look something like:

 

SPARTAN

 

- Assault Rifle

- Shotgun

- Fragmentation Grenades

- Pistol

- Cortana

 

Going by the Halo game, a Spartan can really only carry two weapons (But I'll even give him the benefit of the doubt and say he can carry a pistol too). An Assault Rifle is well suited for medium-long range combat, and a shotgun is good for close range. A pistol is a suitable back-up weapon. Fragmentation grenades seem to be the only grenade type that exists in the Halo universe (Or is the only kind that is ever readily available), and I believe plasma grenades are a Covenant weapon. We'll also assume he has Cortana, so he has an ability to get intel on the battlefield. Of course he has his Mjolnir suit, which has the strength enhancements/energy shield. He also has a helmet-mounted flashlight to see in dark conditions.

 

Clone Commando

- DC-17m Blaster Rifle

- DC-17m Sniper Attachment

- DC-17m Anti-Armor Attachment

- DC-15s Rechargable Sidearm

- Thermal Grenades

- Sonic Grenades

- Flashbug Grenades

- EC Grenades

 

Now, right away we'll see that a Clone Commando is better equipped, tactically, than the Spartan. He has the equivalent of an assault rifle for medium-long range, he has the equivalent of a sniper rifle for very long range, and the equivalent of a grenade launcher for anti-armor. He has a pistol, but unlike the Spartan's, the Commando's has an infinite ammunition supply. The Commando not only has the equivalent of frag grenades, but also three other types that allow him to tackle any number of enemies (Sonic for good ambush opportunities, Flashbugs for stunning the enemy, EC for eliminating hostile droids and enemy electronics). I could give him a demolition charge, but I won't, as we'll assume these are really too bulky for everyone to carry one and they're not so numerous nor common on the battlefield as the Republic Commando game would have us believe. Not part of their equipment, but available, is their Clone Advisor; like Cortana, this allows them to have intel while on the battlefield. They wear their Katarn class body armor, which has a rechargable energy shield, low light vision, and a vibroblade mounted to one gauntlet.

 

So, a Spartan is a powerful soldier, but compared to the Commando his equipment is lacking on a tactical basis. He's not geared to handle the situations a Commando is, although he's better able to bash the enemy's brains out when he gets on them. One thing to consider is that Spartans really only know one enemy to fight; Covenant. Much of their tactics, if not equipment, is designed with this in mind. Of course they have battlefield knowledge they can apply to any enemy in any situation, but I imagine the majority of what they know is specialized to Covenant forces only. Why else would you need a seven foot, power armored, genetically engineered killing machine? Fighting regular humans can be done with regular humans, whereas with Covenant something like a Spartan might be more useful. Meanwhile a Commando is trained to fight any number of hostiles, ranging from Droids to Trandoshans and everything between. Not to mention, each one is a specialist in accuracy, demolitions, leadership, electronic manipulation, and close combat. I would imagine a Spartan is specialized in one or two, not all of, the above categories. Thus we see that while a Spartan is more powerful physically, a Commando is more powerful tactically.

 

The fight would probably happen at range, as most combats do on the battlefield. When the two opponents first meet each other, not really knowing who is who, they'll undoubtedly go for cover and start firing. Now, assuming the battlefield takes place at medium range (A reasonable assumption), the Spartan has already effectively lost the use of one of his weapons. Meanwhile the Commando has the ability to use all three of his weapons. Now cowering behind cover, super reflexes and strength really don't mean much. You can't be dodging and jumping around a battlefield and expect to hit anything; motion and accuracy are anathema to one another. Thus a Spartan pausing to hit something is just as fast as a man on crutches. We will assume, however, that the Spartan is quick enough to duck out of cover, fire, and hide again that the Commando really can't snipe him effectively. However, the Commando can make it very difficult for the Spartan to move, again, denying him precious mobility. Here they are pretty much at a stand-still.

 

The Spartan would go to Cortana for help to see about this new threat. Cortana may or may not have the ability to hack into the Commando's communication to get information. Really, though, this isn't going to do Cortana any good; suppose she can crack the system. I doubt Cortana speaks Mandalorian. I'm not quite sure what language Commandos speak (Or what language Spartans speak for that matter); in the games and novels they speak English, but this is because the countries they are popular in speak English. Given that we're looking at two different sets of people (The clone of a Mandalorian and a Spartan) from two different galaxies, odds are they speak vastly different languages. With the Covenant, Cortana would be able to translate because, again, this is an enemy the Spartans are made to deal with. They're the only real concern, so they have the intel to apply. The same cannot be said for Commandos. The Commando, on the other hand, would go to his Advisor; again, his Advisor does not know what a Spartan is, so really his information is not going to be all that helpful. He can, however, give the order to kill, which I assume would be necessary in a time like this (As opposed to stun/interrogate/bypass).

 

One thing about Commandos, though, is that they are very dynamic, forward-thinking individuals. Spartans are regular humans with the ability to freely think and decide things for themselves. During the firefight, both would probably notice a shield surrounding their enemy. When Master Chief is struck in the Halo games, there is a shimmer around him; assuming this is true to life, we can make the assumption the same happens to Commandos. Now, to a Spartan, this information doesn't really mean much. His tactics are pretty much the same as they would be any other time, it's just going to take a few more bullets to execute his plan. To a Commando, however, he knows exactly how to handle shields. So, what would happen next?

 

Now, after a brief firefight, it's pretty obvious to both Commando and Spartan that their enemy is a good soldier. A ranged stand-off like this is really not going to go anywhere, and will only waste ammunition. And in a war of ammunition, the Commando wins by default by the notion that one of his weapons has infinite ammunition. So, they both decide to flush the other out with a well-placed grenade. The Spartan goes for a frag grenade (His only real option) and hurls it out from his cover in the direction of the Commando. We'll assume that the Spartan has enough battlefield experience, biological manipulation, and technological assistance that he can judge the throw and make it perfectly. At the same time, the Commando goes for an EC grenade, and hurls it at the Spartan. Again, we'll assume enough battlefield experience, body memory, and technological assistance that he can judge the throw and make it perfectly. Both see the other throw the grenade, and are now getting flushed out of cover. The Commando only really has to get to the other side of his cover, or another point of cover to put himself at a safe distance. The Spartan, however, is facing a grenade with a MUCH larger radius, and an electronic pulse isn't really bothered by things like concrete or the like in the way.

 

So, what we see is the Spartan running towards the Commando (Where he will have the advantage, and he could undoubtedly run there faster than the Commando could really get away) and the Commando going for more cover. The grenades go off. The frag grenade will probably do minimal damage to the Commando (Who will have either got on the other side of his cover, or gotten more cover). The EC, however, will have drastic effects on the Spartan. His energy shield is gone (But will recharge), Cortana gets zapped (I am not sure how resilient an entity like Cortana would be to an EC, but let's assume she's down long enough for this battle to be determined), and his suit's systems are hampered. Assuming his visor looks roughly like the inside of a Comando's, he's going to have a lot of difficult seeing. The suit's responses will probably be erratic at best, but let's assume that through biological enhancements, the Spartan can keep coming at a pace that is still considerably fast for a seven foot tall man in armor that weighs nearly half a ton.

 

Assume both are firing as they go. Shots hit, but now the Spartan's shields aren't there to protect him, and he's getting wounded. The Commando's shields are still working just fine, and the Spartan is probably having some difficulty (Either with movement, vision, or both) and so he's not hitting quite as much as he could otherwise. The Commando leads a line of retreat back (Wanting to keep distance between him and this guy that looks like a Wookie crossed with a tank), while the Spartan follows him. Right about this time, that sonic grenade that the Commando planted as he retreated is triggered by the motion of the Spartan going by the cover the Commando just left, and he gets hit by a full-on sonic blast. Now, his shield is still not going to be up because, while it may have had time to recharge normally from the EC, the Commando's fire has kept it from doing so (Assuming the shields can only generate without the stress of incoming fire). Combined with the fire he took on the charge, the Spartan is probably dead or severely wounded at this point. If he isn't dead, then he is not going to be able to continue his charge at the Commando, and will be forced back into cover where, again, the Commando has the advantage of better firepower and better equipment. It will only be a matter of time until the Commando just chucks another grenade at him and if he comes running out, the Spartan eats an anti-armor round.

 

The Commando is simply the better tactical unit, in my opinion. His weapons are far superior, his training is far more versatile, and he's an expert in nearly every field of warfare (At least in terms of accuracy, demolitions, electronic manipulation, and leadership/tactics). The Spartan's advantage comes in with far superior physical ability, but again, in long-range firefights it doesn't matter if you can flip a truck. When you're crouching behind cover, it doesn't really matter how fast you can run (And really you can only squeeze a trigger so fast). The only way I can see a Spartan winning is if the two walked around a corner, and the Spartan bashed his head in. In close combat, the Spartan would probably win (Since while both can get one-hit melee kills on enemies in their games, the Spartan would undoubtedly be far more able to do so in this scenario), although by what margin could be debated (How well can Mjolnir armor hold off a vibroblade?).

 

Commandos are just a better soldier in warfare. A Spartan is more so better at just knocking enemies' heads off, and a lot of their resilience comes from their shield. But a Commando has the ability to take that shield away, while a Spartan is really stuck with the same tactics no matter what he's fighting (Frag it, Shoot it, or Smack it). He can't adapt as well as a Commando can, and that's what would win the fight for the Commando in every situation but a melee combat, which again is unlikely to happen as the Commando can always retreat and leave an ambush grenade waiting for the Spartan to set off. Remember, I didn't even give the Commando a detonator charge, which he could use to REALLY put a dampener on the Spartan's day.

 

I love Master Chief, and I love Spartans, but Commandos are just better soldiers for just about any situation. Four Commandos against one Spartan wouldn't even be a contest. They could throw down a Thermal, Flashbug, EC, AND Sonic grenade and lay down massive amounts of firepower on the Spartan as he tried to go for more cover (And again, he's not going to have that shield to protect him). With one sniping, one firing anti-armor rounds, and two with blasters, the Spartan is pretty much doomed.

[Bomberman65]

Wow man just wow. That was great you have oviouslly played both games. But I agree with you that Spartans are kool but Commandos are able to adapt better. On another note Commandos are able to speak in english (Galactic Basic in SW) and Mando'a which is their natural language. So they'd tell if they were being hacked and just talk in Mando'a. But man I'm still just getting over that. It was great. But the books of RC just increase what your saying further. But you should check them out but nice to have you to the discussion Ner Vode. (Mando'a for my brother)

[Niner_777]

Very well said. Some other points to mention include the fact that the Star Wars universe is far more advanced scientifically than our universe, in the Spartan's case. Obviously, the commando has a plasma weapon, which is very effective against the Spartan's sheild. Despite all the talk about the MJOLNIR armor being so good, who knows how it compares to the far possibly far more advanced armor of the commando.

 

Another point about the armor. I believe that in one of the books, it said that Spartans weighed around two tons! Much of this was due to their size and muscles, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe that it said much of it was the weight of the armor. The armor helped the Spartan move using electrical impulses sent from the Spartan's brain which gave instructions to the armor, so it was like part of their body. If the EC detonator took out the armor, it would undoubtedly slow the Sparten down greatly.

 

Just another thing that I thought of was their diet. Spartans were fed normal rations (I beleive). They talked about them eating crackers in the books. Commandos on the other hand, eat only ration cubes, which have the perfect balance of nutrients. This is just something that I thought might have a slight impact on their health and body. Unless of course they get food from locals on their mission, lol.

[taclled]

another thing even if you equiped the spartans with commando armor and ordanance/weapons the commandos will still win because they have been drilled from birth to death on military tactics and are pitted against each other in live fire competition with the losing team paying the highest price at the hands of the winners team. it works as a bit of.......... umn........... lets just say motivation.

[Bomberman65]

Just to point out it did say that Spartans weighed around two tons and the armor helped the Spartan move using electrical impulses sent from the Spartan's brain which gave instructions to the armor, so it was like part of their body. That is correct.

But very good defence guys.

[Captain-Panaka7]

Don't forget that the commandos little little little blade can kill everthing in 1 hit

[Just_Darrell]

I actually took the Commando's vibroblade into consideration, but one must realize a Commando can not kill everything in one hit with the blade. For example, Super Battle Droids don't go down in one hit, nor do those big Trandoshan Mercs. Similarly, Spartans can't kill Elites, Brutes, and Hunters in one hit. But, between the two, the Spartan would have the better chance to kill the Commando with one strike (Given his increased strength and mass). The vibroblade's effect on the Spartan could be debated, but either way it's obvious the Spartan has the upper hand (Although that doesn't necessarily mean automatic victory) in close combat.

[Ben_Walker]

To your first post Darrell, damn...

 

As for the vibroblade against a Spartan, that'd probably just take a fraction off the energy shield, or barely leave a dent in the MJOLNIR armour if the shield is down. Okay, now maybe if the Commando could expose the Spartan's flesh, then that might be more fatal... but you never know with super soldiers.

[taclled]

yes but to the mass, shield, armor's electric impulses to help move, i just say this: Electro magnetic grenade. A commando will take the damage he gives himself through this and still can move but a spartan gets hit you can say good by to moving

 

 

*some what off-topic* by the way if a spartan weighs 2 tons how do they jump.

[Just_Darrell]

Well, that's sort of what I meant. A vibroblade may have little effect against the armor itself, but the armor undoubtedly has less protected joints at the elbow, shoulders, knees, neck, et cetera. Also, how sturdy is that visor? Those kinds of questions we could ask all day and night, and honestly I can't really answer them since I don't know what a MJOLNIR suit's joints are made of.

 

Regardless, as I said, a Spartan has the upperhand in close combat, no doubt. The trick would be trying to actually get to the Commando, who can pretty much negate, match, and exceed every advantage the Spartan has in every other combat scenario.

 

And thanks to everyone for their comments on my first post. I saw the argument and thought I'd chip in with my opinion. It got sort of long-winded, but I'm bad for doing that anyway.

[Captain-Panaka7]

Man Darrel i have a feeling your gonna be good at posting

[Niner_777]

I'm not sure what a vibro blade could do to MJOLNIR armor. I'd think that it could do some serious damage though. After all, it can cut through boulders and metal, thanks to it's quick vibrations. I think that if a commando got it into the Spartan, the commando could do some serious twisting damage and injure the Spartan's internal organs, possibly. However, after the commando punctures the Spartan, he'll be close enough for the Spartan to tear his arms off, so in this case, they might both die? Who knows if the Spartan would be fast enough, or if the commando could make a quick jab and back off quick enough?

[Ben_Walker]

Man Darrel i have a feeling your gonna be good at posting

 

Damn straight.

 

I say pitch a unit of Spartans against a squad of Commandos and that would be interesting. Since both soldier has their own advantages and disadvantages and theres no absoloute victor in a grudge-match.

[Bomberman65]

Yeah I'd like to see a squad of commandos vs. a squad of Spartans. That would be a good fight.

[Redtech]

I will say that the post was too bloody long though!

 

Yeah, fairly argued. BTW, Spartan armour is not "too heavy" for them, it just upgrades their reaction time and movement speed to compensate for it's weight. Imagine a human kevlar vest that actually didn't make you feel padded and slow! It's a similar idea.

 

Cortana "is" a master hacker though, she can crack languages based on syntax, fast, heck, humans can if given time and a supercomputer..which she is.

 

I think Spartans are really designed not to be ideal soldiers, but to be ideal killing machines, they don't obey standard rules of combat, it has to be non-conventional ideas and max killing ratios against the Covenant, heck, jack their weapons and use them against the aliens, it's all valid.

 

Republic Commandos are designed as an "elite force". For all the skills, they are limited by rules of engagement and genetic programming, but against an enemy they have to be able to cover SWAT and SAS style roles of hostage situations, espionage and working as a team to win the mission, which is not always kill everything that you see. They have to be used as part of the big picture for maximum efficiency, as their are many, many troops who could do their job, but the casualties would be much higher.

 

An interesting discussion on fictional characters, I must admit.