Endor. A dead planet ?

[Guest Fondas]

[*] I've read somewhere that the explosion of a standard nuclear head in Earth's orbit would create an enormus destruction. Now, multiply this by the size of the Death Star and all the possible explosives it carried, apart the main core...

 

[*] The fact that there were capital ships between the DS and the moon of Endor is irrelevant since they had deflector shields, Endor didn't.

 

[*] DS1 wouldn't be pulverized by Aldeeran's debris, simply because it had it's powerful deflector shields up. Even the Falcon was able to fly through them.

 

[*] There are debris in Star Wars ! DS's are clearly visible, even exploding TIE fighters have and they are visible. Small, but it's there.

 

[*]K_K is right, Saxton's arguments are a little far fetched but nevertheless, he's got a point...

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[This message has been edited by Fondas (edited August 20, 2001).]

[Admiral Odin]

Here is one idea.

 

Now SW has technology that obviously far advanced then what we have today. You have to allow that things could happen that with our current technology would be impossible.

 

1.I gather that there is a basic assumption that the Core of the DSII is radioactive. Now that might not be, they could use Fusion reactor, or something else that does not create Radiation.

 

2.Endor is an alien planet, the Ozone layer around the moon could provide protection against any kind of radiation, or burn larger pieces of debri then ours could.

 

3.The rebel ships around the moon. Now I don't think the rebels would just sit around looking at the pretty debri smack into Endor. Now those ships have fighters and guns. What says they couldn't have just blown up the larger debri so they would burn up in the atmosphere. (he brings up this fact in His Holocaust however once again the particles could have been completly disentegrated into atoms, which would not create a cloud)

 

 

 

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"Dulce bellum inexpertis."

(Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb

[Flying Beastie]

First: There's a picture (a screencap, not a drawing) in one of the RPG sourcebooks (possibly one of the old WEG ones), of Endor as seen from the Forest Moon. It's a little silver disk about the size of Earth's moon (as seen from Earth, natch), but with streaks across it.

 

It looks kinda like someone at ILM took a jpg of Venus and rendered it as a greyscale, then superimposed it over a view of the moon seen from a forest, really.

 

It may have been visible in RotJ, but it's also likely that this particular image was taken from one of the Ewok movies.

 

Second: A lot of the debris would've been heading away from the moon (and/or been thrown into Endor's gravity well).

 

The larger chunks were blasted by the remains of the Rebel fleet in orbit (that most of you seem to have forgotten), and the smaller chunks would've burned up as shooting stars.

 

IIRC, one of the novels makes reference to the shooting stars that streaked through the skies over either Yavin 4 or the Forest Moon after a Death Star.

 

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Uh-oh. . . Don't try this at home, kids!

[Guest Rogue 9]

the planet of endor is a huge gas giant...see the thrawn trilogy, also the DSII's core wasn't radioactive in the sense we think of otherwise Luke would have been killed by radiation as he and vader were fighting near a vent that went directley into the core.it did not have anything stopping physical mass or an energy as vader threw the emporer down the vent into the reactor and the dark side energy realised by his death came back up. also the falcon's sheild generator was gone so there was no way it was sheilded against the radation when it was in the reactor.

[edlib]

One quick thought in answer to Fondas' point #3:

In the Star Wars universe I always thought that the shields that are installed aboard ships and stations were largely ineffective against solid objects, only energy bolts. When first entering the Hoth asteroid belt the Falcon is hit with a rock large enough to jolt the ship, and Han says "Something solid hit us!". Plus, the SDs were getting pummeled when they tried to follow.

There is also the case of the Rebel fighters flying through the shield of the first DS. If it was that powerful then they should have exploded against it or merely bounced off. Then there was Han's stunt attaching the Falcon to the backside of a SD. The capital ship's shields should have prevented him from doing that.

The Endor shield was far more powerful, being from a planet based generator, requiring it to be lowered before any ship could fly through.

Actually, now that I think about it, the use of shields in the movies was treated a bit inconsistantly. Otherwise why would such a big deal have been made of destroying the SSD's bridge shield generators if the fighter could have just passed through it anyway?

Hmmm...

[Admiral Odin]

There are to types of shields I believe one, for solid objects and one for lasers.

 

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"Dulce bellum inexpertis."

(Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb

[Guest Fondas]

Good point edlib !

 

Although shields are frequently mentioned in SW, we never see them !

 

Remember the fighters running cover for Luke during the DS trench run ? Two or three shots were enough to blow it to pieces.

 

Also Luke and Wedge in ANH got their ships damaged by ONE shot !

 

Someone could say that they had their shields config to front, but let's get real

No fighter locked in a defensive dogfight manoeuvres would ever had it's shields front.

 

 

 

[edlib]

The same thing happens in Star Trek all the time too. Did you ever notice that the bad guys shields always seem impervious to any attack, but the good guy's shields are either always down, or depleted at an insane rate.

 

What's up with that, I hear you ask? It's more dramatic that way.

 

In ANH I like how Wedge can fly right through the wreckage of a TIE in one scene, yet one hit from a laser and he needs to bow out a couple of minutes later.

 

Again, it's just far more dramatic to have Luke in the trench alone.

[K_Kinnison]

2 types of shields, ray-shields, and particle shields

 

The shields on a Fighter are not all that powerful, they make it slightly harder to damage the craft.. think of it as energy armor. Secondly, during a trench run, most of the fighters energy was diverted to the engines, hence weaker shields.

 

The Dish on the M.Falcon is a SENSOR dish, not a shield generator.

 

The M.Falcon has enuf particle shielding, and armor taht it could collide with a few stray asteroids, as long as it wasn't one of the big ones. Remember when the 2 asteroids collided in front of the falcon, and it was sprayed by rubble? you herd it, but were not effected by it.

 

Particle shielding is usualy at or near the ships skin, and does not create a "Bubble" of force. Ray-shielding typically is a deflector Bubble style as we see in TPM.

[Guest Redwing]

Originally posted by Fondas:

 

Although shields are frequently mentioned in SW, we never see them !

 

Remember the fighters running cover for Luke during the DS trench run ? Two or three shots were enough to blow it to pieces.

 

Also Luke and Wedge in ANH got their ships damaged by ONE shot !

 

Someone could say that they had their shields config to front, but let's get real

No fighter locked in a defensive dogfight manoeuvres would ever had it's shields front.

 

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As K_k can tell you, we didn't see everything that happened in the trench...the movie would've been far too long.

 

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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.

At last we will have revenge.

[Guest Redwing]

Originally posted by Rogue 9:

the planet of endor is a huge gas giant...see the thrawn trilogy, also the DSII's core wasn't radioactive in the sense we think of otherwise Luke would have been killed by radiation as he and vader were fighting near a vent that went directley into the core.it did not have anything stopping physical mass or an energy as vader threw the emporer down the vent into the reactor and the dark side energy realised by his death came back up. also the falcon's sheild generator was gone so there was no way it was sheilded against the radation when it was in the reactor.

 

(It's described as a hypermatter reactor.) I'm surprised this guy didn't think of that! I mean the Emperor had his persoanal little tower built directly above an open vent into the supposedly radioactive core! C'mon, Palpatine wouldn't have been that stupid if it was actually emitting harmful radiation...

 

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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.

At last we will have revenge.

[Nute Gunray]

Actually, it's quite possible that we DID see almost all of the Battle of Yavin. There's definite time constraints in place. The Rebel fighters pasted through the Death Star's magnetic field just about the time that the Death Star was 15 minutes from having Yavin IV in it's firing arc. Assume a minute more travel time to get TO the Death Star, that's 14 minutes. Give Vader and his men two minutes to get to their fighters and in space, and you're left with 12 minutes of combat time before Luke pops the Death Star. Twelve minutes of ABOUT 40 fighters (30 rebel ships, the six TIEs they show in formation, Vader and his escorts, and the Falcon) in combat isn't all that difficult to do in a movie.

Think about the movie Pearl Harbor. They had to condense about two hours of combat into 40 minutes, while at the same time stick to certain characters for the WHOLE TIME. OK you say, you're sticking to three groups of characters (the pilots, the nurses, and cuba gooding jr's character), so you dont' have to show everything. That makes my point go away doesnt it? Not really. There were THOUSANDS of people, hundreds of aircraft, dozens of ships, and dozens of buildings that were in that battle.

The tiny scale of the Battle of Yavin makes it possible that the ONLY thing we didn't see was how that one Y-Wing survived.

[Admiral Odin]

The late Y-wing came survived because he was 10 minutes late to the battle. Pilot couldn't find his helment

 

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"Dulce bellum inexpertis."

(Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb

[Flying Beastie]

Actually, it's possible that that was one of the Ys that cut across the axial trench to draw fire. It was just lucky enough not to draw too much fire.

 

"YYEEEAAAAGH!! What're you doing?!?"

"You told me to draw their fire!"

"Well don't draw it over here, idiot; I'm working."

--Gundam Wing, when the Maganaaks were retrieving the remains of Sandrock.

 

Originally posted by K_Kinnison:

2 types of shields, ray-shields, and particle shields

 

Yes. Death Star I's thermal exhaust port was ray-shielded. If it was particle shielded, the heat energy wouldn't have been able to escape (and the torps wouldn't have been able to get in).

 

Also, in ANH, one of the pilots refers to DS I's "magnetic field" --that's what was causing the turbulence when the fighters approached, not the shields themselves.

 

Most small ships shields follow the hull (as we see in TPM, when Anakin crashes aboard the Control Ship). Simple reason: they use the metal of the hull itself as an emitter (rather than being localized in one projector that can be knocked out with a lucky shot).

 

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Uh-oh. . . Don't try this at home, kids!

 

[This message has been edited by Flying Beastie (edited August 24, 2001).]