How do you view sith lords?

[Chevron 7 locke]

Are you saying he was allied with the true sith or that he was preparing the reoublic against the true sith?

[TKA-001]

Revan is excempt because what he did was a sacrifice to save the republic. nuff said

Essentially, you're saying that Revan is exempt because he believed he was doing the right thing and because he was doing it for the good of the galaxy. By the same logic, Palpatine is also exempt because he believed that replacing the Republic with his Empire was the right thing to do for the good of the galaxy.

 

Both of them used two galactic wars for their personal gain. Both of them betrayed the organizations they feigned to serve/were allied with. Both of them had opposing political officials murdered. Both of them manipulated their own followers and were responsible for numerous acts of genocide, and both of them did all of the above and more because they believed their ultimate goal was for the good of the galaxy.

 

Just imagine Revan or Palpatine trying to explain themselves to the quadrillions of people who were killed because of them. The only fundamental difference between the two is that Revan was redeemed due to the actions of his former comrades (the Jedi). Ironically, Revan would never have returned to the light side if not for Malak.

[Chevron 7 locke]

Revan went to war to save the republic! I'm not saying that all those deaths weren't wrong, but it what was what needed to be done to prepare forhte arrival of the True Sith

[Darth_Yuthura]

Are you saying he was allied with the true sith or that he was preparing the reoublic against the true sith?

 

According to the Desciple... whoever the hell he is... Revan only attacked military targets in the Republic, but left the industrial centers relatively intact. I think Revan passed himself off as a Sith so the Republic would assume he was part of the 'true threat' when he truly was not.

 

Revan also did not harness the full power of the Star Forge, but only used it as needed to replenish his fleet. Malak used it to its fullest capacity and suffered because of it.

 

This doesn't sound like what a genius and sith lord would have done.

[Chevron 7 locke]

The starforge itself was alive. If he had used it the way malak did, he might not have turned out to be the revan we know and love. the darkness of the starforge would have consumed him totally and utterly

[TKA-001]

Revan went to war to save the republic! I'm not saying that all those deaths weren't wrong, but it what was what needed to be done to prepare forhte arrival of the True Sith

Needed to be done? The Republic almost collapsed because of the Jedi Civil War, their fleet was decimated, and the Jedi were all but destroyed. How did that help prepare for the True Sith?

 

Revan also did not harness the full power of the Star Forge, but only used it as needed to replenish his fleet. Malak used it to its fullest capacity and suffered because of it.

How was anything that happened to Malak related to his use of the Star Forge? He wasn't using it long enough to be particularly affected by it.

[Chevron 7 locke]

His plan was to unify the galaxy, but the the Jawless giant Malak screwed it up. I'm quite sure that if Malak had not interfered, revan could have united the galaxy against the true sith

[TKA-001]

His plan was to unify the galaxy, but the the Jawless giant Malak screwed it up. I'm quite sure that if Malak had not interfered, revan could have united the galaxy against the true sith

That does not justify anything Revan does, any more than Palpatine's intentions justified anything he did.

 

Besides, if this True Sith business was really the only thing that motivated Revan, why did he see it necessary to declare war on the Republic and establish his own Sith Empire? Do you seriously mean to tell me that he had no other options?

[Darth_Yuthura]

The starforge itself was alive. If he had used it the way malak did, he might not have turned out to be the revan we know and love. the darkness of the starforge would have consumed him totally and utterly

 

Exactly. Revan didn't want to be fully consumed by the Darkside, so he only used the Forge as needed... why didn't he use it against the True Sith in the first place? Maybe they were more powerful than the Star Forge the way Revan used it. He wanted to leave the Republic industrial centers intact so that he would have to rely less on the Forge.

 

I think Revan intended to rule, but not be a dictator like Hitler. The reason he defied democracy was because nothing would have gotten done through conventional politics. He did what was required, but if the Jedi had appointed Master Kavar to lead the charge in the first place, no one would have followed Revan.

[Chevron 7 locke]

If he knew when the True Sith were coming then yes, i believe he may not have had an option. lets look at the facts. there was alot of corruption in the senate and even if Revan had gone and told the jedi council and the senate, it may have taken years to decide on an action to take. I believe that Revan made the right choice

[Darth_Yuthura]

I think that as well, but it would have been better altogether if the Jedi had taken action in the Mandalorian wars to begin with, then if Revan were indeed a dark lord, he would not have had any followers. The Council never admitted that they were wrong on that particular matter, but they might have been able to make all the difference.

[Chevron 7 locke]

I think the council saw revan turning to the darkside so they didn't enter the war. look at the amount of Jedi that followed Revan after the Mandalorian wars, now think abou the number of jedi that would have followed him if the council had followed him.

[True_Avery]

Revan is excempt because what he did was a sacrifice to save the republic. nuff said

A blood road paved with good intentions.

 

Many a war has been fought over good intentions from both sides. Revan may have had his/her side, but the other side had their own as well.

 

I respect what Revan did. But that doesn't exempt him/her from the tyrant rule, as he/she used power to gain more power with the blood of many, regardless of intentions.

 

Billions died at Revan's hand, and we'll honestly never know if they were justified or not. The True Sith never showed up, and we were never given full details on much of anything. For all we know, the True Sith could have been a lie.

 

Now that Tor is set 300 years later, we'll probably never know. But from what we do, Revan as just another person feeding a river of good intentions with blood.

 

Praise or condone Revan, but don't beat around the bush of what Revan did.

[Darth_Yuthura]

I think the council saw revan turning to the darkside so they didn't enter the war. look at the amount of Jedi that followed Revan after the Mandalorian wars, now think abou the number of jedi that would have followed him if the council had followed him.

 

That doesn't make sense. It wouldn't have been the Council following Revan, it would have been Revan following Kavar. The only reason Revan got so many to back him was because he pealed to the other Jedi and they were convinced that the Council were making a mistake. When they did not join the Mandalorian wars, Revan did what the Council would not.

 

Had they predicted Revan would go rogue, they would have had no other choice but to join the war and have Master Kavar leading the Jedi. They would have had to do that in order to maintain the loyalty of their followers. Either Revan would have followed Kavar, or he would have been alone without any support.

 

This gets back to an issue on the lightside not always being the best choice. Because the Jedi Council were so arrogant of their power over the Order, they just assumed all their followers would have followed blindly. In a way, they had been corrupted by power and became just like Sith Lords. The Council is supposed to speak for the Order; not themselves.

[Chevron 7 locke]

You may have a point there Yuthura

[Darth_Yuthura]

**Arrogantly**

 

Yes, you were foolish to ignore my wisdom.

 

**Not so Arrogantly**

 

I indeed hate that kind of talk as if the Jedi are perfect and always know what to do. The reason why I liked TSL so much more than any of the other SW plots was because it portrayed the 'good guys' as being just as flawed and dangerous as the Sith. I like storylines that make the characters with more shades of grey than all black and white. It shows that even the strongest and wisest of us can have the most fundamental flaws.

[Chevron 7 locke]

If all the jedi of the order had followed revan...i know he would have won the Jedi civil war. can you imagine it? Revan leading a thousand jedi into battle against the republic...

[TKA-001]

even the strongest and wisest of us can have the most fundamental flaws.

...except for the player characters, of course.

[Darth_Yuthura]

...except for the player characters, of course.

 

Very true, otherwise no one would have liked being them.

[CommanderQ]

True, no one would like to play as a mindless drunk who manages to destroy the Star Forge, hence, why everyone considers Revan perfect, which he's not.

[Chevron 7 locke]

Finally CQ posts.

 

Anyway...i see the PC as having one severe fault. he doesnt have any motivation, We have to move him around and get him to kill things.

[CommanderQ]

Of course, these actions would steer the PC into different situations requiring acts of good..or evil to complete them. This, however, doesn't contribute to the Sith discussion in a good way. The dark side actions in Kotor would mostly be out of greed or just pure evil, pointing a good direction at the dark side, very plain and simple, yes?

[Chevron 7 locke]

Uhhhh....yes?

[CommanderQ]

Ahh, good we're agreed on that! YES, yes, yes.....strange..but what do you think defines a Sith again, Chev?

[Chevron 7 locke]

I believe that the qualities that a sith show define them. A sith who simply kills for the fun of it is a murderer: plain and simple, A sith like revan who went to war with the republic to save it; i believe that type of sith is noble. A sith who doesn't kill, but simply plots...that in my opinion is the most dangerous type of sith.