Starkiller Can Fly? O_o

[Alexrd]

Is that what I said? No, it's not.

 

You said you had already answered this argument before. I went back to check it, and the only answer I got was that it's all about speculation, and nothing is explained in the movie.

 

Such as three guys waving lightsabers around? Didn't do much locking in that scene, did they?

 

You seem to forget that Theed has been invaded, and there was no security guards there to activate any lock mechanism.

 

Watch the review, it's all explained in it. I'm not going to re-type all of the points Plinkett makes here.

 

Yes, because not all points he makes are valid to me.

 

I get that you're trying to troll me by making me waste as much time as possible on this, but I'm not biting.

 

I'm not trolling anyone. I'm just giving my opinion to your comment where you say that TPM has the most stupid or inconsistent writing in the whole saga.

 

Yes it does: http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4438/dsyavin.png

And an officer even spells it out: "We're approaching Yavin. The rebel base is on a moon on the other side."

 

Yet, the could very well make it arrive right in front of Yavin IV. However they haven't decided that while making the movie. There is no explanation for the trajectory to end right behind Yavin. It's a product of circumstances, just as the force fields are.

 

I see. You're talking about Ep6, I was talking about Ep4. In that case I don't see the problem at all. There were swarms of TIEs in that battle.

 

No. I'm talking about Ep. IV.

 

Apart from the reasons I already mentioned.

 

Right. Because they have to save on fighters as much as they have to save on bolts. How conveninent.

 

And what concepts would that be, specifically?

 

"Watch the review. I'm not going to re-type all of the concepts Plinkett decides to ignore."

 

Really. Excuse me if I don't take your word for that.

 

My comment is there. If you don't believe in it, it's not my problem.

 

You weren't paying attention. I said calling you an immature fanboy would not be justified.

 

Because I gave no reason for that. However, he did when he said that he won't do a review on the OT in some interview.

 

Again, watch the review. He mentions about half a dozen of them.

 

Who's trolling who?

 

Because Solo insists it isn't.

 

Of course, if he insists, he must be right. I'll give the location of the main rebel base to the Empire, because some scoundrel says there is no tracking device on the ship.

 

I don't see the issue here at all. The reason is given right there in that quote.

 

How convenient...

 

And I'm the one nitpicking here? Very well, let me rephrase that. By your logic, when one thing has a lot of flaws and another has fewer, that doesn't mean one of them is better than the other.

 

Yes. Because what some consider flaws, others don't. And vice-versa.

 

So what? This forum is dead anyway, it's not like we're getting in anybody's way. But if you want to continue this via PM, feel free to. Personally I'd much rather do this publically so others can enjoy it too.

 

Because it's against the forum rules and there is a place to discuss things not related to the game.

[Prime]

Not so. Maul and Jinn enter the corridor just as the barriers open, with Kenobi in the distance. Then the barriers close, trapping Jin and Maul in the last and second to last compartments. Kenobi is shown stopping outside just as the first barrier closes right in front of him. Then as the barriers open again, Kenobi starts running at full pelt and manages to get to the last compartment, ie. as far as Maul did while fending off Jinn.

Watch it here:

Sorry, misunderstood the portion you were talking about. That being said, I still don't understand the problem. The shield barriers don't close at constant time intervals. Kenobi just got caught when the doors closed after a shorter period.

 

Well obviously, but good films tend to give justifications for stuff that go beyond that and actually make sense within the fictional reality.

But in fantasy worlds you just can't explain everything about everything. The important points were given. I think it was clear to the viewer that you couldn't just run through the fields just by the look of them, but they also added the part where Maul taps one with his saber, clearly indicating that these were "impenetrable".

 

The important point for the story was that the combatants were divided. It isn't really important what the fields are supposed to do, only what it is doing and how it comes into play in the story. Maybe they are for security, maybe some safety feature, or maybe they open to release gases or something. I don't see why it matters or why the film should take time to explain everything like that. The important points were clear.

 

This kind of thing happens throughout the trilogy. What does a hydrospanner do? No idea. I just know Han needed it to fix whatever he was fixing. What was the tube that Luke was sucked into when he jumped on Bespin? Don't know. I just know that when that door closed he was screwed.

[Alexrd]

But in fantasy worlds you just can't explain everything about everything. The important points were given. I think it was clear to the viewer that you couldn't just run through the fields just by the look of them, but they also added the part where Maul taps one with his saber, clearly indicating that these were "impenetrable".

 

The important point for the story was that the combatants were divided. It isn't really important what the fields are supposed to do, only what it is doing and how it comes into play in the story. Maybe they are for security, maybe some safety feature, or maybe they open to release gases or something. I don't see why it matters or why the film should take time to explain everything like that. The important points were clear.

 

This kind of thing happens throughout the trilogy. What does a hydrospanner do? No idea. I just know Han needed it to fix whatever he was fixing. What was the tube that Luke was sucked into when he jumped on Bespin? Don't know. I just know that when that door closed he was screwed.

 

This, this and this. I couldn't be more explicit.

[Sordid Dreams]

You said you had already answered this argument before. I went back to check it, and the only answer I got was that it's all about speculation, and nothing is explained in the movie.

As I remember it, you talked about Kenobi being tired. I had addressed that earlier.

 

You seem to forget that Theed has been invaded, and there was no security guards there to activate any lock mechanism.

...because an advanced civilization that can build forcefields and fighter planes simplified to the point that a ten year old can fly them hasn't figured out an automated lockdown when weapon discharge is detected. Right.

 

Yet, the could very well make it arrive right in front of Yavin IV. However they haven't decided that while making the movie. There is no explanation for the trajectory to end right behind Yavin. It's a product of circumstances, just as the force fields are.

I'm not sure what you mean by the first part (except that it very obviously isn't an admission that you were wrong when you said there is no shot of the DS approaching Yavin), but the firce fields are not a product of circumstances. The length of the interval is completely arbitrary. First it's established to take a certain amount of time, which is perfectly fine. But then it's suddenly changed to a much shorter period for no reason other than the need to separate the combatants. Good stories are internally consistent and make sense. That's what makes them good stories. Bad stories, on the other hand, have random stuff happening because the author needs it to create drama.

 

No. I'm talking about Ep. IV.

Oh, right. I was confused. Well that general did get shouted down pretty badly, so the others apparently weren't convinced the threat was serious. And again, it's very clear Tarkin, who is in command of the DS, refuses to acknowledge any danger even when it's pointed out to him in the middle of battle.

 

Right. Because they have to save on fighters as much as they have to save on bolts. How conveninent.

Throwing out the random "how convenient" once in a while does not actually convey a point or make an argument, you know.

 

"Watch the review. I'm not going to re-type all of the concepts Plinkett decides to ignore."

You do realize that makes no sense, right? If Plinkett ignores them, then watching the video will not inform me about what they are. Since they are, y'know, ignored and therefore not mentioned. So yeah, you will have to type them out if you want me to address them.

 

Of course, if he insists, he must be right. I'll give the location of the main rebel base to the Empire, because some scoundrel says there is no tracking device on the ship.

Apparently, yeah. I did say the OT does have some problems, and this could reasonably be seen as one. Although I do maintain it's still explainable by Leia simply making a dumb move. Which is entirely in character for her, given that she manages to get herself captured and needs to be rescued in all three movies.

 

How convenient...

I'm sorry, was that supposed to be a point? Because it certainly doesn't seem that way from here.

 

Yes. Because what some consider flaws, others don't. And vice-versa.

Some flaws are objective, and storytelling does have certain rules to it.

 

Because it's against the forum rules and there is a place to discuss things not related to the game.

Like I said, feel free to PM me with a reply if you don't want to carry it out here.

 

Sorry, misunderstood the portion you were talking about. That being said, I still don't understand the problem. The shield barriers don't close at constant time intervals. Kenobi just got caught when the doors closed after a shorter period.

That is a possible explanation, but it's just so... arbitrary.

 

But in fantasy worlds you just can't explain everything about everything. The important points were given. I think it was clear to the viewer that you couldn't just run through the fields just by the look of them, but they also added the part where Maul taps one with his saber, clearly indicating that these were "impenetrable".

 

The important point for the story was that the combatants were divided. It isn't really important what the fields are supposed to do, only what it is doing and how it comes into play in the story. Maybe they are for security, maybe some safety feature, or maybe they open to release gases or something. I don't see why it matters or why the film should take time to explain everything like that. The important points were clear.

 

This kind of thing happens throughout the trilogy. What does a hydrospanner do? No idea. I just know Han needed it to fix whatever he was fixing. What was the tube that Luke was sucked into when he jumped on Bespin? Don't know. I just know that when that door closed he was screwed.

That's not the same thing at all. Like I said in response to Alexrd, the difference is that the force field interval was established to take a certain amount of time. And then it was changed for no reason other than to create drama. The spanner and the tube are only used once in the story and then never appear again, and that's perfectly fine. But when you establish something, then you shouldn't change it without also providing at least some reason for why it's suddenly different.

You may think it's not really that important, but this moment is really where the whole story went pear shaped if you think about it. Jinn got killed because Kenobi didn't make it. Had he made it in time it would've been Jinn who trained Anakin, and he could've provided him with the wisdom and guidance that the inexperienced Kenobi, barely out of his padawan training, could not. Kenobi even acknowledges as much during their duel on Mustafar, accepting the fact that it was his fault, his failure as a teacher that caused Anakin to fall to the dark side. Given how pivotal this moment is within the story, I do think it deserved to be done right.

[Dernmule]

...it would've been Jinn who trained Anakin, and he could've provided him with the wisdom and guidance that the inexperienced Kenobi, barely out of his padawan training, could not. Kenobi even acknowledges as much during their duel on Mustafar, accepting the fact that it was his fault, his failure as a teacher that caused Anakin to fall to the dark side. Given how pivotal this moment is within the story, I do think it deserved to be done right.

 

Okay So first off I am going to say this whole Argument is ridiculous. Each of you are entitled to your own opinion, trying to prove the other wrong doesn't achieve much of anything. Sordid is allowed to find the movie Flawed, and Alexrd is allowed to oppose that thought. I myself find the movies brilliant works of cinema.

 

Now to the point, I believe Anakin fell to the darkside for three reasons.

 

One, he knew he was different from other Jedi, it was this Ego that caused him to believe he was unappreciated as the great Jedi he felt himself to be.

 

Two, Palpatine influenced Anakin in a tremendous way, encouraging him to do such things related to the Dark side. Such as Executing Dooku, Speaking of Former Sith Lords who could bring someone back from the beyond, and of course trying to portray the Jedi as the enemy. Little seeds of Dark Influence coming from a mastermind of manipulation. These things were no way related to Obiwan's teaching ability.

 

Three, even as the Council had said, Anakin was too old to be trained as A Jedi. Even if Jinn had trained him the outcome wouldn't have been much different. The Issues Anakin had came not from Obi-wan's Inexperience, in my opinion. (Which btw he was a Respected member of the Jedi Order. So if he was such a terrible Teacher Yoda wouldn't have appreciated his skills as much.)

 

I admit, that Qui-gon would have been a better teacher, but Anakin still would have become Darth Vader. One Difference though, Anakin would have Killed Qui-gon in the end of the third Movie, and Wouldn't be Adorned with his Lovely Black Metallic suit of Infamy.

 

This is my Opinion, I hope you respect it as I have respected both of yours.

 

OH! And Think of this, Of course Obi-wan blames himself for Anakin's turning. If A child is tainted by outside forces uncontrolled by his parents, there isn't much the parents can do. They can blame themselves but really it is only a matter of unfortunate circumstances.