New inventory for JKO

[Vader's Apprentice]

Will we see a new look to the inventory and will there be new items. Also will you be able to manually activate items like health packs or shields, that was annoying when you'd just walk through a healthpack and it would beam your Health up but you didn't need to, and then when you had a platoon of stormies firing on you and there wasn't a Health pack in sight for you to pick up and give you more life. If you will be able to manually reload your weapons why not your inventory as well

[StormHammer]

Personally, I didn't have a problem with JK's inventory. It was quick and simple to use.

 

And what was the problem with the health packs? I just avoided them if I felt I didn't need them just yet. Besides, you could pick up bacta tanks along the way, which were kept in the inventory, and readily accessible at any time.

 

With inventories there is always the danger of letting the player carry around too much stuff to use as and when they like. How much fun would it be if you could carry around all the health packs you wanted? Not much, IMHO. Part of the challenge of any game is finding the best way to survive certain encounters, ie, using tactics as well as firepower because you know supplies are limited.

 

This is one reason why I don't want to see any powerups in the inventory (such as the Force boosts), because my enjoyment of Quake II was wrecked by having power-ups readily accessible at any point in the game due to their inclusion in the inventory.

 

I thought they got the balance about right in JK, so the last thing I'd want to see is some fundamental change to make it easier to complete JK2.

[ed_silvergun]

Perhaps we should instead talk about what new items could be included in the inventory. We already know we'll be getting macrobinoculars, but there are plenty of other items which could be useful to add to the inventory:

• Aquatic breather: supposedly standard issue for Jedi Knights of the Old Republic. Maybe the Jedi of the New Republic have the too.
  
• Ascension gun/harpoon gun: as used by Naboo guards and by Luke during the Battle of Hoth. In TPM the ascension guns were extra fittings which could be attached to a standard blaster. Maybe Kyle could get hold of some such fitting for his blaster.
  
• Bacta tank: self explanatory.
  
• Droid owner: small hand-held device to control droids fitted with a restraining bolt.
  
• Holocam: you could send one of these off to explore round corners and send back information.
  
• Hydrospanner: perhaps Kyle could come across a puzzle which involves him having to repair a droid or a vehicle or something.
  
• Vibro-knife: probably not very useful as a weapon, but might be used as a key to solving certain puzzles during the game. There's also the larger vibro-ax.
  

Anyone else got any suggestion as to what inventory items we could have this time around?

 

NB: I got quite a bit of the item information from the <A HREF="http://www.starwars.com/databank/">databank</A> on <A HREF="http://www.starwars.com/">the official Star Wars website</A>.

[Guest Krayt Tion]

I would mention that having an inventory that allows more item storage is not a shoe-in for making the game any easier to complete.

 

Deus Ex, for example, had a large yet still limited inventory as far the needed weapons/other needed items balance was concerned. Play Deus Ex on Realistic and tell me if your inventory gave you the tools to just breeze through the game. Even on normal play I never got the sense that I was on vacation with all my tools and inventory objects at hand, the game was always challenging.

 

Generally speaking larger inventories are fairly common in RPGs for the reason that they bolster the roleplaying qualities of game; more interaction with the environment through the use of many items plus the items themselves are a reflection of the settings, the more you can use and touch closer you feel to the world you are in. All and all I think the increased number of items in your inventory makes the game more immersive. Inventories also alter the pace of games slightly, depending on how much you need to micromanage them, so that is something to be considered. Obviously there's got to be some limit.

 

I wouldn't mind having more items to carry around in JKO (can't think of any at this time) but they've got to ditch that single-rowed you-must-cyle-through invetory system if so.

[StormHammer]

I agree that if there were lots of new items in the inventory, then the way the inventory works would have to change. As I recall, there were not many items in the inventory that could not be accessed by a hotkey - which was my preferred method of using certain items, such as bacta tanks.

 

Having said that, JK2 is not an RPG. JK may have had some RPG elements (particularly where Force powers were concerned), but it was still fundamentally a shooter.

 

I'd like to see some additional equipment made available, but I wouldn't want to see JK2 turn into a hybrid action/RPG like Deus Ex.

 

AS far as inventory items go (and I've said this before in many past threads ), bring back...

 

- Ice Cleats for navigating slippery ice levels

- Gas Mask or equivalent, for large areas with toxic atmospheres.

 

Other than those, ed has pretty much covered it. Apart from anything else that might be needed within the game, such as key cards, etc.

[Guest Krayt Tion]

edit: Whoops, didn't read carefully.

 

I still think Deus Ex was fundamentally a shooter with some very strong RPG elements. Other people might say otherwise. In either case Deus Ex definitely blurred the line between the the arcadish qualities of the shooter and the immersive qualities of an rpg to produce something wonderful imo. I don't think I'll look at FPSes (which Deus Ex was) the same way again.

 

I myself would not mind some additional rpg elements added to JK2 and I wouldn't dimiss some of those good inventory qualities in single player just because they are typically found in RPGs. If anything DE taught us to think outside the traditional boxes.

 

[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: Krayt Tion ]

[StormHammer]

Hey, don't get me wrong. I love (some) RPGs, and I'm interested in how Knights Of The Old Republic is going to turn out. If anything, I want that RPG to have lots of action in it. And I see nothing wrong with having certain RPG elements in JK2 - as long as it is not taken to the extreme.

 

I mean, I don't want to have to talk to every NPC to get the information I need to complete a level. Or have multiple answers to questions. I also don't want to get into armour/weapon repair, buying supplies from shops, and learning how to use lots of weird equipment to get me where I want to go.

 

To be fair to what you are saying, I have only played part of the demo of Deus Ex (system crashes at the time prevented me completing it), so I have no idea what the full game is like. My understanding was that it was half action, half RPG, but if it's got a strong shooter element, then all to the well and good. (I need to get that game )

 

In some ways, JK2 will be incorporating a few RPG like elements, such as better interaction with NPCs. I understand the NPCs will react differently dependent on your actions, so you can still play a role within the game that may determine how challenging it becomes. Whether or not we will have two different endings again is anybody's guess - although it would be nice.

 

However, they seem to have taken out the necessary choices between Light and Dark that were a definite RPG element of JK.

 

Will we still have a star system or something in order to develop certain Force abilities? That was an RPG element. Maybe they could have a system a bit like Daikatana, where you power-up certain abilities throughout the game. I don't know.

 

Basically, I'm not saying keep the RPG elements out, just don't turn JK2 into a full-blown RPG.

 

A feature I'd like to see return from Dark Forces is the code-cracking to open certain doors. If that needs a slicer's kit - well, okay then.

 

I have no problem blurring the edges of any game, and it often adds the necessary spice to make a title great rather than just good.

 

Of course, the main problem I foresee concerning some features is a lack of time to implement them. They seem to be sticking to their deadline at the moment - and that's quite a short development cycle for a game.

[Guest Krayt Tion]

Well in just about every FPS you are technically playing a role, though much of the time people don't consider it that much while you are gibbing things to bits.

 

I'm not too worried about JO being a mindless shooting romp because the Dark Forces series has always lent itself to more role playing than your average FPS by its very nature. What I mean is that the appeal to many is probably being able to interact with or to have a role in the Star Wars universe, albiet an expanded one. Good gunning action is required for me to like an FPS but at the same time doing it in the Star Wars universe still made a game like Dark Forces more interesting than, say, Quake II single player years later.

 

Aside from that, the one thing in my opinion that JO could successfully borrow from RPGs (besides a possible expanded inventory) for a better game is increased interaction with the environment via NPCs. The indicated strengthened NPC interaction does indeed look like a good sign to me for JO.

 

I'm all about a good action puzzle- this is an action game after all- but when I think about it might be time throw more into the mix for JO. The existance of only action and find the person with the key puzzles I think makes the game too linear for me after other games I've played like DE. NPCs that can aid me in completing levels would not only add to the immersiveness and responsivess of the environment but it would give the game more depth.

 

I should add that NPC interaction should not always be the only means to advance in certain places in a level. That too is as cut and dry as including only action puzzle advancement from where I stand.

 

To give a good example, you should be able to fight your way to an Imperial Garrison in a city and navigate some surrounding tunnels to blast out the Garrison back door controls. And be able to talk to Jeffrey who can lead you to his father's Metal Bikini HoloMag distribution center in the same city, and sneak you in with a routine shipment of Metal Bikini HoloMag supplies if you so choose. The ability to take truely different approaches to level advancement is quite a blessing to me as a gamer in an FPS.

 

It's not so much about adding role playing elements in a pure role playing sense as it is that these RPG elements happen to lend themselves better to a level advancement that has more depth and is a lot less linear.

 

Unfortunately, the development time for JO is not exactly comforting me on this issue either. It is definitely more work to make an FPS with more open ended and compelling game design that works well. Warren Spector even questioned why oh why did they have to do everything the "hard way" for Deus Ex. Well Warren, you definitely made the good decision in the end and put out a beautiful FPS. It doesn't look like JO even has this luxury.

[access_flux]

yer i agree, there should be a harpoon/grappling hook, because you guys must realise how many mods and cogs and patches were made for JK for a grappling hook, because it would be really useful.

[Wilhuf]

I like Vader's Apprentice's ideas about usable items. Just walk over an item to pick it up and stash it. Then hit a key to use the item when you're ready. Just like bacta tanks in JK.

 

And it wouldn't make sense to have to press a key to activate every pickup. Some would have to activate automatically, of course.

 

Part of the fun with Q2 was how you could stash items. You had to think about if you should wait to use your items or use them before it was too late.

 

This worked especially well in multiplayer. And q2 gave server admins some settings to reflect their preference. E.g., 'use item immediately on pickup' or 'allow player to stash and activate item.'

 

Of course if you stash items you'd have to cap on how many you can carry.

 

I would like to see some of Boba Fett's gear as pickups. The capturing lasso for instance. Although that is probably more suited for a 'Bounty Hunter' game than Jedi Outcast.

[ed_silvergun]

Hehe... still dropping hints about that Bounty Hunter game, Wilhuf?

[Guest Kurgan]

Multiple paths lending a more "open ended" type of gameplay in Singleplayer is what I like. It would be a shame if JK2 didn't capitalize on this possibility. Otherwise it will get pretty boring in single player.

 

I hope to find more than the cliched "find the key/open the door" "stack the boxes and climb up" "find the one teeny tiny switch" and that sort of thing.

 

I like it when there's a few logical ways to complete a puzzle, not always just one obscure method, so you have to guess what the developers were thinking (like you would in some 1980's text adventure). ; )

 

So maybe I want to sneak past the security cameras using my force abilities, or maybe I just try to shoot them out with my sniper rifle. Or perhaps I get a disguise.. or maybe I take a hostage, how about that (too bad that strategy never worked in JK)?

 

Kurgan

 

[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

[StormHammer]

I totally agree, Kurgan. However, I don't think we're going to see much of a less linear approach due to the limitations on the development time.

 

I suppose one way they could technically get around it is if they design a lot of single player levels the same way they would multiplayer levels. I mean, if you look at a lot of the levels in Unreal Tournament, they're very open-ended. If they could do the same for at least part of JK2's singleplayer levels, you'd at least have a few different routes to reach the same objective.

 

As for different types of play, such as sneaking, taking hostages, or going in all guns blazing, well I hope they've catered for at least some of that - but I can't honestly see that many options being available throughout the game.

 

The only title I know that Raven produced in a really short development cycle is Heretic II, and although very enjoyable (IMO), that was quite a linear game, unfortunately, and not quite as long as I would have wanted.

 

I hope that JK2 doesn't suffer the same way.