Classes in Multiplayer.

[Syndrix]

Seeing as it was a topic of somewhat interest on the lightsaber thread, and got me to thinking, I thought I might as well start a new thread (as some suggested) to discuss the subject.

 

While I firmly believe that balance can still be achieved between heavy weapon users and saberists, a class system may be one way of addressing the balance issue we all refer to. Possibly with a class system the saber would become the devastating weapon we know it can be in a Jedi's hands, becoming as deadly as any gun pulled against it.

 

Classes I think could be possibilities are:

 

Jedi: I know Vagabond disagree's but I would see a Jedi only able to use his(and the only one who has a) Saber, and the Force. This is not out of some misguided attempt to make the game feel more movie-like, but rather if he could use guns then the game would once again be misbalanced. I think under a class system only a Jedi has access to the force (it make sense, gameplay and universe wise), thus if a Jedi could have guns as well it would be unfair. With the force as his guide the Saber could actually be deadly.

 

Ground soldier(either side)/Mercenary(neutral): Now the above should not read I want an all powerful Jedi. Not at all. I want useful powerful guns as well. The reason why a gunner was so powerful (apart from conc) was he had equal access to the force. Take away his force (as in a true reflection of SW you would) and perhaps the playing field becomes proverbialy "equal". The gunner is not weaker because of this as some may suggest, with only the Jedi allowed force powers the guns could be just as deadly as they were. This soldier still has a very large range advantage, but can no longer Force Speed run away from a "Jedi", thus not only is his aim important but perhaps tactics will help him prevail. This doesnt mean the game will become slow, it just means a soldier is not so powerful.

 

Bounty Hunter: We all love them dont we. I would hope they would become powerful in their own right, not just a shadow of the soldier. They would have access to a less weapons than the soldier because they have other "equipment". Some may say they should have different weapons but I would assume that if soldiers had better weapons BH's would use them and vise versa. I know this may not be totally true, BH's may modify some weapons, use capturing weapons etc. But if you assume everyone has had time to equipt themselves for the situation why would BH's want to capture them. But that is really just a excuse so they can concentrate on other Bounty Hunter equipmment and not worry about adding mores. I would like to see these items to make a BH a powerful "force" (hehehe) of his own:

- Jet pack with limited, but recharging, fuel.

- Armour, this could be shields or actual physical armour.

- Laser aiming, on the side of his head (head set, think headphones) or helmet. This may allow weapons to do a little bit extra damage, better body targeting.

- Trip wire, fires wire that tangles opponents legs and they trip over and have to get back up. Giving you time for a better shot or run away from that pesky Jedi.

 

These were just some suggestions, perhaps they could have more BH equipment and allow a choice, like Jedi choose force powers, or maybe there is only a few that are "set".

 

Anyway they are my, extremely obvious, class models. As I typed I thought of others like Medical and Engineer, but these are not conducive to fast gameplay. It is still possible to have varied players but keep the gameplay fast and furious.. or something like that. And some classes would make the game to slow and tactical, JK2 should have more tactical play but not so much it slows the game down.

 

You would have to keep classes to about 3 or 4 IMO, as more than that makes others redundant, they should all be useful. This isnt role playing, its just DM with a few variables and a bit more player depth.

 

What is everyone else's view on classes, actual classes or balance between different classes.

 

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Syndrix ]

[KillerBee]

ok I liked to see:

Force User:

Skins: famous jedi

options: force powers: sabre detials (inc multiple/staffs)

choice of 4-8 neutral powers, but 2 powers for dark and light that are unique, so darkiers cant have lighties power, (sort of compremise between jk and mots, with the low level light and dark powers being avaliable to all..)

 

Non force users:

Skins: alien races/humans and humanoid droids

options: Default weapon to take in?

choice of skills and equipment to take in, similar to force layout.

e.g. grapples, night vission goggles, grappling hooks, sniper scopes? (though any fool can make a q3 script to do that)

skills such as weapon coding that allows them to use guns which explains nicely why jedi cant pick em up .

 

Droids:

All non humanoid droids.

Cannot pick up, have fixed weapons unique to droid skin.

Have varying abilities, eg rolling for destroyers, large walkers that have fixed weaponry, bots able to walk on metal walls (well I would love that )

 

Have skills/equipment as shields, jumping aids, etc I dunno.. I just want to play as a destroyer droid

[Guest Krayt Tion]

It has been a while, but here is the old topic incase anyone wants to go back and read it.

 

First off, as a general comment regarding Classes in multiplayer: it would be an absolute godsend if we were able to play some good team-based, class-based multiplayer with non-deathmatch objectives in JKO, either provided by Raven or as mod from any other group. I would never. Put this. Down. Ever.

 

A team-based mod or mode for JKO is probably a step above and beyond the basic Class Play you suggest here. The reason being that you would have to tweak the classes from a team perspective instead of just against each other individually, and possibly make different or slightly different classes for a certain 'kind' of team, like Axis vs Allies or Counter-Terrorists vs Terrorists. Or Rebels vs Empire

 

However, as tempted as I am, I will not get into this quite yet and will respond strictly to the general class orgy as you are discussing here:

 

A Jedi Class would be nice. I'm in agreement with you about limiting or even completely eliminating guns from the Jedi Classes inventory. If these are going to be Jedi in the true sense of the word they should only be armed with the saber and their force powers. Maybe another thing or two equipment-wise like a rebreather but no serious guns. I think being able to use the force and saber like no one else can would be bloody interesting enough as far as fun is concerned for that class!

 

Your plain Soldier Class- I think you hit this right on the head. He won't have the force but he'll have the big guns and he'll have the range. You like to shoot heavy guns? Well here are some ones that are sure to be made powerful now that you can't use the force. So shootem.' And aim true. You shouldn't expect to turn into a Jedi and bust out with powerful force at the same time in class play.

 

Bounty Hunter: I like where you are going with this as well. Give him some different equipment from the soldier. No heavy long range weapons though, that'll be the soldiers trademark.

 

As for medic and engineer, those types of supporting classes would indeed be better suited for some team-based[i/] classes. But I said I wasn't going to get into that yet.

[wikedjedi]

The classes were very fair in Mots but a few things that seemed a little out of place. Like with the jedi class, it should not be as power full, maybe 6 instead of seven, or not as many stars. The soldier class was good, big weapons, not to big, and slowest speed. The bounter hunter class had carbonite, which was pretty much the main thing, and the force power push, which came in handy sometimes. I thought the bh class was not needed really, but it was fun sometimes to play. But it doesn't need to be over dressed with jet pack, trip wire. A jet pack would be cool, to get to high places etc. The scouts had a scope which could take you out in 1 or 2 hits, but when using the scope it should change speed, like in counter-strike, etc. But, all in all they were pretty fair.

 

Hopefully there will be classes to help the games multiplayer out. In JK there wasnt much to do and would get bored with nf guns, ff sabers, etc. But with classes, it would add more gameplay types and would hopefully liven up the community in tournaments and games.

 

wiked

[Vader's Apprentice]

I agree

[KillerBee]

tbh I actually prefer q3:ta class system working on powerups.. I loved the ammo regen.. and rail

 

but a sw TFC could work.. tho jedi could be great healers and spys, jedi mind tricks would be great for that.. (another reason I think class based dm would be good.. lighties would be better then darkies v nfers.

 

btw 1 idea I think a SW game should have are neutral bounty hunter classes inside a ctf game, that earn money (for buying equipment and guns) for killing enemy players.. that would just be soo great for the starwars feel.

[acdcfanbill]

as to distroyer driods, they have too powerful shield generators, they prob shouldnt be included, if they are that powerful...

 

and killerbee, they will have those types in SWG, so i doubt that they will have something like that jkii...

[KillerBee]

destroyers shields are only when they are stationary.

they only have blasters.

and they cant fire while moving, execept when moving very slowly, with shields down.

+ whilst a match for a jedi, a guy with a rail will own it with 1 or 2 shots.

(if you make the shields only blaster proof.. giving reason for having rails, which jedi can just push away..)

 

and SWG gives you a much much larger choice of character. you only get a fixed race, if we cant have classes from SWG, we cant have jedis or no forcers

 

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: KillerBee ]

[Syndrix]

Krayt Tion: Yes I was thinking more classic style play here, not to say team based shouldnt be considered, I just play FFA or game equivelent more often. While classes may have to be tested under team games I think it would be reasonably easy for Raven to balance thier classes so they were even in DM and Team DM/CTF. Perhaps they could add a few more classes that are only accessible under team based games to even things out. I would like to see it included by Raven as team play is just as popular as DM these days.

 

KillerBee: I never played Q3:TA that much, I played it a little and liked the powerup way that was implemented, but IMO set classes are be better.

Also in JK2 Kyle will be taking the "midddle path". Now little has been said about MP but in JK we played as a "generic kyle" ie. the same powers that you have in SP. I am just guessing, but I think there is a high chance the MP force powers will be the SP ones. I dont think they would have time to spend crafting a dark and light side just for MP, also possibly one of the reasons they went with the "middle path" is so every Jedi has access to all the same powers. Better balance. If that is the cast there is no light side/dark side issue to worry about.

 

As to droids, I dont think we would be playing as them, it doesnt feel right to be able to play them.

 

Posted by wickedjedi

But it doesn't need to be over dressed with jet pack, trip wire.

 

This isnt over dressing the Bounty Hunter, it is making them thier own class. You said you thought the BH class was not needed really in MotS, this is my point exactly. He is like a soldier in that he has no force powers, but with equipment that is actually useful, not just tacked on to make him look good but serve no real purpose, he can come into his own. This way a BH class has different tactics to the classes he is opposed to, but still gives him equal chance and he's not just a modified soldier. That said, all the equipment designed for him has to be useful in a range of settings and not be over complicated in use.

 

[ August 21, 2001: Message edited by: Syndrix ]

[KillerBee]

I would hate not to have a choice of powers.

I loved being either dark or light..

 

Droids I doubt will be in it.. but I would love to see it..

I want to be a destroyer droid

[Guest Kurgan]

You know working with force powers, you could make a TFC type thing were it was ALL Jedi/Sith, just mix and match force powers. Rather than just having one jedi class and everybody else without force, etc.

 

And you could have an alternate set of classes for a non force TFC.

 

Sound good?

 

Kurgan

[KillerBee]

mmm jedi could do tons of roles in a ctf thing

[SpidahX1587246507]

What I'd like is that they put different models with different animations.. like a Darth Maul skin with his animaitons and his ligthstaff.. that would rule.

 

It,d be cool if they could put known mp models/skins/animations like Luke and all the bunch from episode 1 so that we can re-make the duel of the fates scene.. in its whol eentirety !

[access_flux]

yer that above stuff is cool, but with the skins, i would like to see maybe kyle in Jedi Robes, that woudl be cool. and more choices on lightsabers, eg light staffs, or even 2 smaller sabers yer...