Guest xwing guy Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 I'm sorry if I sound too pacifist, but the idea of everyone carrying weapons sounds frightening to me. Just about all the people do it in Isreal, and do they have any problems with crime? No, because any crimnal knows that theres a lot of people around to shoot him if he does anything. Also, Isreal porbably doesn't have any problem with crime because there always at war, offically or unofically, with somebody. Sure, if someone pulls out a gun and fires on someone, everyone's going to stop him (since they're armed too) but shouldn't it be better if we could avoid the crime altogether? No, because crimnals will always have guns or some kind of weapon, and taking away a citizens firearms is basically making everybody a ripe target for crimnals, because there armed, your not. Another thing, THEY SHOULD BAN CARS!! THEY KILL MORE PEOPLE EVERY YEAR THAN GUNS DO!! HAHAHHAHAHA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 you forgot to respond to my post... BTW, Sherack really was just making an out of the way comment he wasn't tring to start an arguement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WC_heavyarms Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 Xwingguy, Do you know what the **** is going on in Israel? There are some serious problems. THEY NEED TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. Otherwise, those arabs would kill them. They are mad at the US because they exist, that's why Mr. Bin Laden did what he did. We need to tell people to lose those feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WC_heavyarms Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 They should outlaw the ability to carry weapons on the streets, like what fergie said and what Nhar said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 Originally posted by xwing guy Just about all the people do it in Isreal, and do they have any problems with crime? No, because any crimnal knows that theres a lot of people around to shoot him if he does anything. Also, Isreal porbably doesn't have any problem with crime because there always at war, offically or unofically, with somebody. No of course they don't have problems with crime just people throwing rocks and Helicopters blowing away their homes... No, because crimnals will always have guns or some kind of weapon, and taking away a citizens firearms is basically making everybody a ripe target for crimnals, because there armed, your not. Yep...but there are two types ARMED of criminals... 1)The HardCore- Ones who plane it out fully buy all the hardware...gather surveilence, etc. 2)And then there is the Potential criminals- they won't go to far out of their way to plan out the thing they just go to their closet and pick up their shotgun they picked up from their local Gun retailer and walk on out. They may not use the gun for death but they might just use it for a robery... Now don't you think if you made it harder or impossible for the potential criminals to get the weapons they need to pull it off the crime rate would drastically decrease...the HardCore criminals are a major rarity and don't really show up at all...they might not have any trouble getting their weapons but they were most likely getting theirs illegaly anyway... Another thing, THEY SHOULD BAN CARS!! THEY KILL MORE PEOPLE EVERY YEAR THAN GUNS DO!! HAHAHHAHAHA! Fine with me...but then they should ban alchohol because that is the leading cause of car deaths...I won't mind...Of course that would lead to Chaos...but I really havn't argued for guns to be completely banned have I??? No I have been argueing for tougher gun laws...(in other words I don't want to see an AK-47 or other very high caliber guns or high rate of fire guns on the shelves of a local gun store) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xwing guy Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 Fine with me...but then they should ban alchohol because that is the leading cause of car deaths...I won't mind...Of course that would lead to Chaos...but I really havn't argued for guns to be completely banned have I??? No I have been argueing for tougher gun laws...(in other words I don't want to see an AK-47 or other very high caliber guns or high rate of fire guns on the shelves of a local gun store) The NRA doesn't push for more and more powerful guns to be available for sale, so don't except any AK-47s to be sold anywhere. Gun dealers can sell SKS though, which are the AK-47 on semi-automatic only. Yes, they should ban alchohal and other drugs. Other people have argued for guns to be completly banned, not you Fergie, but there shouldn't be more tough gun laws, all they need to do is have the ones now be enforced more. Also, its hard now days for crimnals to get guns because of the background check they do on you before you purchase a gun. So most crimnals now days get guns smuggled to them or they buy them off the black market. Xwingguy, Do you know what the **** is going on in Israel? There are some serious problems. THEY NEED TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. Otherwise, those arabs would kill them. They are mad at the US because they exist, that's why Mr. Bin Laden did what he did. We need to tell people to lose those feelings. Yes, I do know whats happening in Isreal, and they have good reasons to carry guns, but so does every American. If you don't wanna exrcirse your right to keep and bear arms, fine then, but don't go trashing people who do and hunters and the NRA who support our rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WC_heavyarms Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 Originally posted by xwing guy If you don't wanna exrcirse your right to keep and bear arms, fine then, but don't go trashing people who do and hunters and the NRA who support our rights. I didn't say nothing about hunters. Hunters are ok, but not handguns. what is the point of owning one? No one uses them, except to murder someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kvan Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 Originally posted by WC_heavyarms I didn't say nothing about hunters. Hunters are ok, but not handguns. what is the point of owning one? No one uses them, except to murder someone. People don't use guns just to murder people, they use it for self defense and for sport. You say hunters are ok, but handguns are not? I guess hunters are suppose to go around stabbing the animal to death with a knife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WC_heavyarms Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 Originally posted by Kvan People don't use guns just to murder people, they use it for self defense and for sport. You say hunters are ok, but handguns are not? I guess hunters are suppose to go around stabbing the animal to death with a knife? I said rifles are ok, not handguns. If no one owns a handgun, then what is there to be afraid of? huh? Handguns are the #1 weapon used in murders because they are small and can be concealed. If they got rid of them, decrease in murders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefo Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 The NRA DOES push for the un-bannment of heavy weapons "Just so we can defend ourselves.. YOu know just in case." I still say if you feel the need to defend yourself with a weapon, you have some paranoid esque problems. You conservative people hold life to be sacred through your Pro-Life stance, but why do you also approve the sale of deadly weapons that can kill millions? I mean you guys like those Genocide kill weapons.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kvan Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 Originally posted by WC_heavyarms I said rifles are ok, not handguns. If no one owns a handgun, then what is there to be afraid of? huh? Handguns are the #1 weapon used in murders because they are small and can be concealed. If they got rid of them, decrease in murders. I guess it comes back to how much freedom are you willing to give up, to feel "safe". If you ban handguns there might be a decrease in the amount of gun related deaths, BUT you are sacrifing some of your freedom...and thats something I'm not willing to due. I will accept the risks that come with making guns avalible to the public. BTW People will just make sawed off Shotguns and rifles (hehehe) to make them concealable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WC_heavyarms Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 I'm willing to give up some freedoms to feel safer, I don't own a handgun anyway. And sawing off a shotgun or rifle is better than a handgun.. can't silence it normally without "Tom Clancy" experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefo Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 Why give up your freedoms? You may not like something, but you can't change it, you can just argue pointlessly about it.. I say the only freedom we should ever consider giving up would be the Guns one. Voice of Reason: Dude he's on your side! Me: Shut up voice of reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kvan Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 Originally posted by WC_heavyarms I'm willing to give up some freedoms to feel safer, I don't own a handgun anyway. And sawing off a shotgun or rifle is better than a handgun.. can't silence it normally without "Tom Clancy" experience. heheheh.....but how many people actually use silencers? Not very many, that I know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WC_heavyarms Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 that's my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kvan Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 Originally posted by WC_heavyarms that's my point No one uses Silecers anyway, so who cares? A handgun is rarely silenced. So your saying you'd rather have a sawed off shotgun, that can spread your guts all over the place, then a handgun? Hmmm..ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xwing guy Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 The NRA DOES push for the un-bannment of heavy weapons "Just so we can defend ourselves.. YOu know just in case." Since when has the NRA pushed for more un-bannment off guns? If they have tell me what guns. I don't own a handgun anyway. And sawing off a shotgun or rifle is better than a handgun.. Its VERY illegal do saw off a rifle or shotgun. but why do you also approve the sale of deadly weapons that can kill millions? I mean you guys like those Genocide kill weapons.. Cars kill more people every year than guns do. WE GOTTA BAN CARS!! HAHAHHAHAHAH! Genocide weapons??? Man, if we didn't have guns then we Americans wouldn't be free. Because it was the civilans guns that were used to fight in the Revolutionary War on the colonists side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBOy Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 Man, if we didn't have guns then we Americans wouldn't be free. Because it was the civilans guns that were used to fight in the Revolutionary War on the colonists side. different time, different circumstances. The colonists needed guns to fight the British. Do you see any thirteen colonies or British soldiers over here anymore? No. They made the 2nd amendment so we could fight back with guns. No need for that anymore. We don't live under tyranical rule anymore. And the "guns help prevent crime" thing is silly. If a guy wants to shoot you, he'll shoot you, regardless if you have a gun or not. He'll gun you down before your hand ever reachs your gun in its' holster. Now, i'm not against ownership of guns. I just think that stricter laws are needed to keep anybody from getting their hands on a gun so easily. I'm not flaming anybody and i don't wish to start another arguement with anybody. God knows we've seen enough here in this thread already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefo Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 One of my favorite authors is Christopher Buckley (Who happens to be Conservative) Although they might not do it NOW, they used to, Buckley points this out in his books. I still think your Un-Patriotic thing is still Bull****. Are you fighting a war in Afghanistan right now? Did you storm Normendy? Did you fight in Vietnam even though you may have thought it was wrong? I think you are being Un-Patriotic by calling people Un-Patriotic. In fact, hating someone else for their views and wanting to silence them is Un-Patriotic. Hell by your wonderful logic, if you don't own a gun you aren't patriotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xwing guy Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 Yeah, and until I win in this debate I'm not stopping. More stricter laws is not what we need, all we need to do is enforce the ones we have! How many times to I have to say that! Also, if a crimnal wants you dead, you still can shoot him before he shoots you. Also, if you have a gun to defend yourself, at least then you have a chance against the crimnal, but if you don't have a gun, then you are a ripe target for picking for crimnals, and they know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefo Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 The reason Criminals are criminals is because they HAVE guns in the first place. You never really answered to my rant about being a Patriot. I don't own a gun, does that mean I'm fresh meat for criminals? Oh no I'm so scared. Look, unless people on the run from the law live in your neighberhood and are very psychopathic, you have no reason to fear from criminals. Are you just going to say some old lady deserved to die because she didn't have a gun to protect herself? Even though she is use to being safe from things like that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dlayers Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 The reason Criminals are criminals is because they HAVE guns in the first place. This is absolutely an absurd comment. Are you saying that the only crimes committed are committed by using guns? Having a gun does NOT make you a criminal. I myself do not have a gun, but have been thinking of purchasing one to protect my family. My home has been vandalized several times over the past 2 years, and to ensure the safety of my family I am considering purchasing something to defend myself and my family in case we are ever threatened. HeavyArms: Here's a quote from Ben Franklin: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety...." - Benjamin Franklin The point of owning a hand gun is for protection...I would be interested in seeing the numbers of how many hand guns are owned in the United States and how many murders are committed by hand guns. Just because you own one doesn't mean you use it to commit crimes. A rifle is not a practical weapon to use in the case of defense. If someone is in your home and is at close quarters trying to commit a crime it would be very hard to maneuver a rifle to protect yourself....if rifles where effective in those situations then the police department would us rifles instead of handguns. Also, Fergie has mentioned several times an argument about more powerful guns...how often have you seen crimes committed using something like this? It does happen, but it is so rare that when it happens it's a major news story across the nation because it took place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefo Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 I don't think I make myself clear. I hate it when that happens. What I meant is that one of the main reasons that criminals can do criminal stuff is because they have guns.. I hope I'm clearer on that. I agree that giving up Civil Liberties is stupid, and that you can never ban guns from this country. But we should control them and try to get the crime rate lower. EDIT: this thread is going to degrade into a Flame war, I can just tell this. Also I still want Xwingguy to apoligize for the unpatriotic comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kvan Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 And the "guns help prevent crime" thing is silly. If a guy wants to shoot you, he'll shoot you, regardless if you have a gun or not. He'll gun you down before your hand ever reachs your gun in its' holster. Ok, so by your logic, Flyboy, cops shouldn't carry guns because it doesn't prevent crimes? I have to disagree with you there. Guns wielded by a person CAN prevent a crime from happening! Your little senario is flawed. Nothing is 100%, there are too many factors that can change the outcome. Having a gun handy gives you more of a fighting chance against criminals though. Also, Clefo, why should Xwing guy apoligize for the comment he made? You don't agree with it, I don't agree with it, but he shouldn't have to apoligize for what he believes. He isn't calling people names.....well, ok he did call Fergie one, and I do think that was uncalled for and he should apoligize for that remark, but other then that he has his right to express what he believes without having to apoligize for what he thinks, doesn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WC_heavyarms Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 You will not win this, Kvan. Guns cause violence. Getting rid of handguns is something that is needed to be considered. And sawing off a shotgun or rifle is dangerous. It could accidentally kill you, so it would be harder for them to screw that up. Seriously, we don't need weapons. If no one owns one, then we don't need one right? the only ones that should own them are the police and the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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