Mafia_Jabba Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Forgive me if I offend anyone, or may be using this form in the wrong context, but using simple logic and mathmatics skill can one infer one of the following: Either we will all die from AIDS, or AIDS will be erradicated. As we can see in many situations, two opposing forces cannot exist in the same space or time, and eventually one force will overtake the other. The battle, however, may last a long time like in a 52 card game of battle (war) or a game of risk. It may take a VERY long time, but as things begin to brake down more and more, one force will overtake the other. Someone will have to be erradicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vagabond Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Often, two "opposing forces", as you call them, will reach an equilibrium. As such, they co-exist, neither one eliminating the other. From another angle, even if all people with AIDS were to die, the virus that causes AIDS would still be lurking out there, as it was in the beginning, waiting, vying to sustain the cycle of infection and death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsbuckeye21 Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Well, we're not powerless. AIDS doesn't "attack" us; we have to instigate something. Of course it's not very contageous, unless you know you're gonna be sharing blood or other bodily fluids. And even after (I'm pretty optimistic on this; ya just gotta be ) we stomp out AIDS, most likely there will be another disease reeking just as much havok. But I'd say it's gonna be a pretty sunny day when we have AIDS, cancer, and diabetes taken care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted June 28, 2001 Author Share Posted June 28, 2001 I dunno..mabe species that have a balance can co-exist..but often this is not the case in many scenarios...interesting idea though it is very possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vagabond Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Just look at the simple model of hunter and prey. If there is too much prey, then there is abundant food for the hunters, and the population of hunters expands. But if there are too many hunters, then there is not enough prey to feed them all and many hunters will starve. Eventually they reach a balance, with just the right amount of hunters and prey, so that both can co-exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted June 28, 2001 Author Share Posted June 28, 2001 I see it as two clashing opposite beings...who can NOT coexist in the same environment..and cannot reach a balace..sort of like a game of battle in cards...or chess...or risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vagabond Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 The difference is that the AIDS virus is not attempting to destroy Humanity. It is inherantly neutral. It's lethality to our immune systems is merely a by-product of its nature, not its intent. Further, from an evolutionary standpoint, it is not advantageous for the AIDS virus to kill off all Humans, for then it could coneivably kill off itself as well. The best strategy for both to survive is for both to co-exist, which is the natural tendency of things. Organisms are not typically of the matter/anti-matter relationship that you are describing, where they simply can not co-exist. They can and normally do co-exist, and when they don't, the survivor tends to be worse off because of it. Not always, but typically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardz Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 There is always the ever increasing risk of superbugs, that are resistant to medication. Apart from war, that is what we need to be careful of. wardz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted June 28, 2001 Author Share Posted June 28, 2001 A..now I see what you are saying..thank you for the clarification...You are absolutely right about the evolutionary factor. We, or the virus, would eventually change to fit our surroundings and survive if it came down to is. On a different note...isn't there a MAJOR AIDS epidemic (spelling) going on in africa now? You are right, wardz, we do need to be careful about such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acdcfanbill Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 all the regular promiscuous people in the world are gonna hate us virgins cause we have found a to keep the virus at bay (though it may not be by our choice)?! just a little deadly virus humor here folks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vagabond Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 How is that? By not having a blood transfusion with AIDS-infected blood? Or by not accidently having an AIDS-infected person bleed on you? Or maybe you've found out a way to not be born to an AIDS-infected mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt-- Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 I think some people in here are regarding the AIDS virus as a sentient being. Strategy...AIDS wouldn't consider what would be beneficial to it's survival before infecting. It's not the instinctive "do whatever it takes to survive" approach. It's the "do what your genetic code tells you to do" approach. As for a cure, I believe after billions in research, they came to the conclusion that there is no cure for AIDs. We're gonna have to wait for nature to fulfill its role, or nanobots, and Ithink nanobots are comming first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsbuckeye21 Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Perhaps a better debate would be: Is the AIDS virus a living organism? I say no. To get rid of it, we'd need more of a... oh... abrasive chemical to disinigrate it somehow because it doesn't have a lifespan. Of course, it really hard to find something that doesn't hurt humans as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vagabond Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 If I've given anyone the impression that AIDS is a sentient being, then I've been misinterpreted. As I described in my hunter/prey example, if one side becomes dominant, the pendulum tends to swing the other way until equilibrium is reached - not by any conscious effort, but merely because balance tends to be the most successful strategy for survival. The cause of AIDS is a virus, which scientists regard as either an extremely simple microorganism or as an extremely complex molecule. In either case, it can be surmised that it does not have consciousness, hence can not make decisions regarding what is in its best interest. However, its inate behaviors and attributes, whether by coincidence or natural selection, has programmed it with a successful strategy for survival, otherwise either: 1. It would have died out. 2. It would have killed off Humanity or some other host species, hence likely killing off itself in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardz Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 This is drifting a bit, but do you know crocodiles are almost immune to any viral attack? They have a special protein in their blood which kills everything. They developed it over time because, crocs bite each others limbs off quite regularly and they swim in heavily infected water. However, try it with humans and you will suffer liver failure! This is quite an intersting topic, GM advances may help with all sorts of illnesses... wardz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt-- Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 Organism implys a multicellular organism. However, it has far too many components to be considered a molecule. If memory serves, there are 5 kingdoms of living creatures, and "virus" is not one of them. It was up for the 6th kingdom, however. It is thought by some that viruses evolved by accident. During the reproduction of a cell, the process was somehow halted, resulting in fragment DNA. Normally, what would one strand of broken DNA do? Nothing, but what if that fragment was the code for reproduction. The code would randomly enter a cell, and the cell would do its bidding. Therefore, I personally don't consider any virus to be a living thing, merely a byproduct of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kurgan Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 For those unsure of what he's talking about, the Five Kingdoms: Animalia (examples: mammals, reptiles, amphibians, birds, arthropods, etc) Plantae (examples: moss, ferns, trees, grass, etc) Monera (examples: bacteria, blue-green "algae," spirochetes) Protista (protozoans, algae) Fungi (examples: fungus, mold, mushrooms, yeast, mildew, smut) Oh, and though Vagabond was making a rhetorical response, the simple idea expressed above was that by not having multiple sexual partners (or better yet, avoiding sexual activity altogether) is a good way to reduce your chances of infection for HIV. Of course I would add to that that avoiding IV drug use would also be a good way to help avoid infections, statistically speaking. Obviously one could still "accidentally" be infected, or deliberately infected (ie: raped by an infected person, etc), but taking certain precautions and avoiding certain high-risk behaviors could increase your chances of not becoming infected with HIV. Just as, for example, never driving a car, and staying in your house all the time would greatly reduce your chances of dying in a car accident (true, a car could still smash through your house and kill you, but the chances are very slim compared to having a crash while driving to work, or being hit by a car as you cross the street). Kurgan [ June 28, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vagabond Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 Just for clarification, according to Webster, with irrelevant definitions excluded: Main Entry: vi·rus Pronunciation: 'vI-r&s Function: noun Etymology: Latin, venom, poisonous emanation; akin to Greek ios poison, Sanskrit visa; in senses 2 & 4, from New Latin, from Latin Date: 1599 2 a : the causative agent of an infectious disease b : any of a large group of submicroscopic infective agents that are regarded either as extremely simple microorganisms or as extremely complex molecules, that typically contain a protein coat surrounding an RNA or DNA core of genetic material but no semipermeable membrane, that are capable of growth and multiplication only in living cells, and that cause various important diseases in humans, lower animals, or plants; also : FILTERABLE VIRUS c : a disease caused by a virus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted June 29, 2001 Author Share Posted June 29, 2001 I heard of a "would be" cure that lures the AIDS virus or HIV away from the immune system using a decoy immune cell thingy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt-- Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 Very well. I concede to the microorganism stance. I still don't consider viruses to be alive. webster definition of life(//indicates comment): 1 a : the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body b : a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings -- compare VITALISM 1 c : an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism,//no metabolism// growth//no growth// reaction to stimuli and reproduction //2 out of 4 criterea matched// 2 a : the sequence of physical and mental experiences //viruses have no mental being//that make up the existence of an individual b : one or more aspects of the process of living <sex life of the frog> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arragorn Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 There is no way that the HIV virus is programed by nature so as to survive by balancing the possibility of either the virus extinction or our own. If someone would share blood or bodily fluids with someone else that has AIDS the outcome will always be the same. In Africa there is a major epidemic like Mafia_Jabba said. If something won't be done about it, people will just die and keep on dying. Nature won't find a way for the virus and the people of Africa or other 3d world countries to coexist. If that was the case I'm sure that there wouldn't be endangered species in the world. (how about a dinosor for a pet ). I think that the outcome of this battle will be determined by us humans. It is all based on how informed an average person is about the danger of being infected and the research done in finding a cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt-- Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 Btw, in an earlier post I said it was proven that AIDS is absolutely incurable. I should also mention that they said they would be turning towards vaccines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted June 29, 2001 Author Share Posted June 29, 2001 nothing is incurable..mabe with today's technology, but eventually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt-- Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 I also said in an earlier post...nanobots. They are actually quite real(the concept currently), and nanotechnology is advancing. They've made wineglasses, guitars, and much more. I dream of a day when a nanobot, self-replicating, that heals all diseases and rids of us the effects of aging are mass produced and sold to us by none other than Bill Gates. As much as I hate it, Gates is likely to own most of the world in 20 years. It is a dark, dark future. The end is near... [ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: matt-windu ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arragorn Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 Well, we could always try for an assassination attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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