Micro$oft: Lie early, lie often.

[WD_ToRMeNt]

http://slashdot.org/articles/01/08/23/127250.shtml

[Wilhuf]

Here's a better backstory.

 

The use of canned phrases in write-in lobby campaigns by many, many organizations is common practice. The names from the dead people were crossed off and signed by living relatives. Where is the deceit in this?

 

[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Wilhuf ]

[Syndrix]

While one should be sure of facts first, Wilhuf, I believe this qualifies as deceitful.

 

And another letter came from "Tuscon, Utah," a city that doesn't exist.

 

Also this, while other companies may use write-in lobby tactics, I believe it was the fact the MS was using a "front" so to speak, a company that was supposedly neutral was actually strongly tied to MS.

 

One crop of letters began rolling into state offices this spring.

 

Quietly distributed by another Microsoft-supported group, Citizens Against Government Waste, those letters were identical except for the signature.

 

Minnesota Atty. Gen. Mike Hatch said he got about 300 of those. "It's sleazy," he said. "This is not a company that appears to be bothered by ethical boundaries."

 

 

The campaign, orchestrated by a group partly funded by Microsoft, goes to great lengths so that the letters appear to be spontaneous expressions from ordinary citizens.

 

"I've never heard of it before," said UC Berkeley business professor David Vogel. "If any firm should be at the cutting edge of using technology for lobbying, it should be Microsoft."

 

The first paragraph of this quote is the problem here, as the second paragraph I find rather comical and strangely appropriate.

 

[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Syndrix ]

[Wilhuf]

I guess I am so used to PACs, living in the DC area, that I don't even bat an eyelash at the corporate-backed organization of write-in campaigns. Companies do this all the time in this town, and there really is nothing unusual in a Microsoft-funded organization lobbying on Microsoft's behalf. I don't know why a B-School prof. would be 'surprised' by this.

 

Doesn't mean it's ethical or a great thing to do, it just means it is commonplace. No more or less 'evil' than the next company, lobbying to defend its 'rights.'

 

'Good' causes such as environmental lobbies, nonprofits, race/gender equality, justice, fair education, etc. etc. do exactly the same kind of thing all the time.

 

BTW, a 'Tucson, UT' could easily be a typo or simple mistake. This happens in write-in campaigns all the time. Nothing deceitful about that. Mail gets misdirected, city names can be misidentified, hell people even forget their own names when filling out forms. It's not a cause to get out the lynching rope, peeps.

 

If there are letters being sent to UT officials by completely fictious people, then sure, that is deceit without a doubt. But the article doesn't read that this is what actually happened. It says that the return adress was wrong on one letter and that two letters were signed by living people, with the names of dead people crossed off.

 

[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Wilhuf ]

[Syndrix]

Oh, sorry, I wasnt getting the lynching ropes out, actually I've heard so many mis-truths about Microsoft that I usually just ignore them. I really dont have much of a problem with them, if you dont like them then dont support them.

 

Yes I do realise that human rights groups etc. do do this, and it is quite wrong on their behalfs as well. While I cant argue that MS are doing something that other companies dont do, I beleive any company, MS or otherwise, are misrepresenting themselves when they engage in this kind of activity. Was not the original intent of write-in campaigns to hear the voice of the "common man". Oh well, guess its just another practice that's been warped by modern capitalism.

 

While you are quite right about the mis-spelling of a name, I believe the issue here was Microsoft, or rather the company for them, were just using a random database to generate the views of the ordinary person.

 

Letters sent in the last month are printed on personalized stationery using different wording, color and typefaces--details that distinguish those efforts from common lobbying tactics that go on in politics every day.

 

Thats why the Prof. said:

...cutting edge of using technology for lobbying.

 

Edit: Brilliant use of Force Post Edit their Wilhuf, I must say on second reading the article is rather poorly written, lacking any solid evidence from either side it relies strongly on creative "facts" and "snippet" quotes. In a few places it jumps from one point to another with no real link. Not a good source for any debate I say.

 

[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Syndrix ]

[Syndrix]

The Seattle times has the same article but I believe they added this quote:

 

"You can just tell these were engineered. When there's a real groundswell, people walk in, they fax, they call. We get handwritten letters."

 

But in arguement to that there is this:

 

"There's been a political campaign waged against Microsoft for a number of years by well-funded, special-interest companies like AOL, Oracle, Sun Microsystems and their trade associations," said Microsoft spokesman Vivek Varma. "It's not surprising that companies and organizations that support Microsoft are mobilizing to counter that lobby."

 

What is my point, If you believe Microsoft is a monster bent on world domination you'll see the worst of an article, if you have no problem you'll probably think they are just retaliating, as is fair enough.

Really, in the end, its all a matter of perspective.

 

[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Syndrix ]

[Wilhuf]

Never underestimate the power of Force Edit™ You've got to give me enough time to Force Edit my posts!

 

Well, I had to comment on this slashdot article because it really omits the basic context of how lobbying is conducted here in the US.

 

Much in the same way that MS detractors choose to ignore that the Gates Foundation donates hundreds of millions to charitable causes, and instead focus on MS pressure on some schools to make sure their software licenses are legal.

 

As usual, it's a matter of choosing to omit or include facts to support a position.

 

Anyway, I seriously doubt anyone really cares even enough about Microsoft anyway to generate a real spontaneous grassroots groundswell of support. This is software we're talkin' bout after all, not whales or baby seals.

[Guest Krayt Tion]

Two things will never get old on the internet.

 

The first is porn, the second is flaming Microsoft.

 

I personally do not fund them in any way, shape, or form.

[access_flux]

all i am going to say is, why am i not suprised?

[Guest Kurgan]

Well okay, so people are fickle and imperfect, that doesn't make Microsoft's monopoly a good thing...

 

Sure they've done some good (most of the robber barons in history have made some charitable donations), but they've also done harm by reducing competition (and pushing some products that are probably a lot worse than they could be, but they can get away with it because of their share).

 

Kurgan