Natty Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Maybe it's because I've lost faith in God? Where has God been when I've needed him? When I've prayed and begged God for such and such (and the 10million dollars doesn't count- I was being sarcastic) and he hasn't answered my prayers. I had no say in my communion- what part of ït don't you understand? If I could I would change my religion to, I dunno what, but obviously something a lot more tolorent than what the catholics are. It's like saying I'm not Australian because I don't like hot weather because 97% of the Australian population loves hot weather, and I'm in the 3% who friggen hates it. Face it- I have my opinions, I also believe in the big bang theory, and we all know that Catholics don't believe in that theory. You can have your opinion, and that's fine, but don't friggen condem me just because I don't believe in such and such within the religion. What gives you the right to judge me? I'll show respect to those who deserve it, especially when I am shown respect in return, and since you and Mek have failed to show me any form of respect. Bugger this, it's like talking to a brick wall. I'm not even going to bother looking at this topic anymore, I have my opinions and I'm not going to let any snooty, pathetic bible basher tell me what I should and shouldn't believe or feel just because some book and a few pieces of rock with some words chisled onto it say that I should do this and do that- what gives anyone the right to tell me how I should feel, what I should believe and how I should think? Absolutly nobody, and if morons like Mek and Tyrell (who are probably the same person anyway, I doubt that 2freaks would spend their time on here just to annoy the hell out of everyone) can't accept that, then fine I don't care. If I go to hell I go to hell I don't particually care, afterall I believe in reincarnation and I'm coming back as a bytch Can someone please close down this topic? I don't have autho to close topics on the harbor. This whole argument is pointless, no one is ever gonna agree on anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrell Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Natty Maybe it's because I've lost faith in God? Where has God been when I've needed him? When I've prayed and begged God for such and such (and the 10million dollars doesn't count- I was being sarcastic) and he hasn't answered my prayers. What can you expect if you don't believe in Him and love Him? He does answer prayers Natty, but you can't expect God to answer them in the way you want especially when you don't believe in Him. I have asked God specific questions in the past: like the classic "if this is not Your will then give me a sign" but also "show me Your feelings in regard to -". And he has defiantly, beyond any doubt answered me and told me what is His will. You have also contradicted yourself, you just admitted that you've needed Him. Well I hope that you can see the truth and let go of your ties in this world that hold you back. The Christian God is a living God. He is real. He is awesome. He is not a myth. Tell me why are you so concerned with this world when there is so much more? When you die on this earth it will not be the end. Originally posted by Natty I had no say in my communion- what part of ït don't you understand? If I could I would change my religion to, I dunno what, but obviously something a lot more tolorent than what the catholics are. It's like saying I'm not Australian because I don't like hot weather because 97% of the Australian population loves hot weather, and I'm in the 3% who friggen hates it. Really? That is very shameful, I didn't take communion until after I had become a committed Christian. That's where you stand up in front of the Church and proclaim your faith, which I don't think is necessary, but it's nice nonetheless. Also, you should not join a religion because of how “tolerant” it is. I, personally, am only interested in the truth that’s why I am a servant of God. I am not Christian because I need or want to believe in a god, I know what the truth is and I accept it, I don’t fight it. Originally posted by Natty Face it- I have my opinions, I also believe in the big bang theory, and we all know that Catholics don't believe in that theory. I'm not Catholic, and I do not believe in the big bang theory. I don't believe we evolved from apes either, there are species of shark which have out-lived the Dinosaurs unchanged (have not evolved). And as far as the Big Bang is concerned, it tells us that clouds of gas floating around in space collided and caused a bang, but where did they come from? Originally posted by Natty You can have your opinion, and that's fine, but don't friggen condem me just because I don't believe in such and such within the religion. What gives you the right to judge me? I'll show respect to those who deserve it, especially when I am shown respect in return, and since you and Mek have failed to show me any form of respect. Excuse me? What sort of respect did you show me? I didn't say anything mean or offensive. Originally posted by Natty Bugger this, it's like talking to a brick wall. I'm coming back when these pathetic freaks have gone I'll be on ICQ for anyone who nees me I am not pathetic, and I am not a freak. I find your comments obscene, irrational and offensive. You can contact me at voigt_kampff@msn.com Ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grannen Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Tyrell I am not pathetic, and I am not a freak. I find your comments obscene, irrational and offensive. You can contact me at voigt_kampff@msn.com Ty You are not a freak? I think there are some of us who has a different opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrell Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Grannen You are not a freak? I think there are some of us who has a different opinion! Offending me just proves you have no valid argument. You're supposed to be a moderator, I doubt this sets a good example. When moderators can't win their argument they just ban the argument? You can't click UserCP > "Edit Ignore List"? Is that really the image you want to give me of yourself? Now why did you call me a freak you naïve SCUMM™ loving EscapeMi phanatic. That's about as close as I'll get to insulting anyone, I expect you to return me the favour. Cheers, Dr. Elden Tyrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grannen Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Tyrell Offending me just proves you have no valid argument. You're supposed to be a moderator, I doubt this sets a good example. When moderators can't win their argument they just ban the argument? You can't click UserCP > "Edit Ignore List"? Is that really the image you want to give me of yourself? Now why did you call me a freak you naïve SCUMM™ loving EscapeMi phanatic. That's about as close as I'll get to insulting anyone, I expect you to return me the favour. Cheers, Dr. Elden Tyrell Of course I'll return the favour! Even moderators are allowed to express their opinion and here is a sample of the word Freak.I can give you more synonyms from dictionaries but this one will do for now! What exactly is a Jesus freak? The phrase was recently used by the Christian rock band DC Talk to describe someone who loves Jesus wholeheartedly and is not afraid to let others know about it. Webster defines "freak" as "an ardent enthusiast". Synonyms include: enthusiast, fanatic, maniac, zealot Here are the lyrics to the song "Jesus Freak" by DC Talk Separated I cut myself clean From a past that comes back in my darkest of dreams Been apprehended by a spiritual force And a grace that replaced all the me I've divorced I saw a man with tatt on his big fat belly It wiggled around like marmalade jelly It took me a while to catch what it said Cause I had to match the rhythm of his belly with my head Jesus Saves is what it raved in a typical tattoo green He stood on a box in the middle of the city And claimed he had a dream What will people think when they hear that I'm a Jesus freak What will people do when they find that it's true I don't really care if they label me a Jesus freak Cause there ain't no disguising the truth Kamikaze my death is gain I've been marked by my maker A peculiar display The high and lofty they see me as weak Cause I won't live and die for the power they seek There was a man from the desert with naps in his head The sand that he walked was also his bed The words that he spoke made the people assume There wasn't too much left in the upper room With skins on his back and hair on his face They thought he was strange by the locusts he ate The Pharisee's tripped when they heard him speak Until the king took the head of this Jesus freak What will people think when they hear that I'm a Jesus freak What will people do when they find that it's true I don't really care if they label me a Jesus freak Cause there ain't no disguising the truth People say I'm strange, does it make me a stranger That my best friend was born in a manger People say I'm strange, does it make me a stranger That my best friend was born in a manger What will people think when they hear that I'm a Jesus freak What will people do when they find that it's true I don't really care if they label me a Jesus freak Cause there ain't no disguising the truth What will people think What will people think What will people do What will people do I don't really care What else can I say There ain't no disguising the truth Jesus is the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duder Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Tyrell I don't understand your first statement, and if you had a relationship with God you would know how silly it sounds. These are not just my beliefs, they are the truth. What authority does a man have to impose laws on others if a higher power hadn't set them? 2. Certainly! It's very simple, if you do not enter the kingdom of God then you spend an eternity without God, this is known as "hell". Ty 1.If you hadnt noticed, not everyone shares your views. You have no right to tell other people thay are wrong in their beliefs. 2.So are you saying all those non-christians are on there way to eternal damnation? Do you realise how absolutely ludicrous this sounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadmeat_X Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Ah damn another Messiah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrell Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by duder 1.If you hadnt noticed, not everyone shares your views. You have no right to tell other people thay are wrong in their beliefs. 2.So are you saying all those non-christians are on there way to eternal damnation? Do you realise how absolutely ludicrous this sounds? Oh, haha. Whatever you believe isn't the truth. So it doesn’t matter because you are deceiving everyone here, I am not. I speak from experience. My "views" are just the truth, nothing more. Well, documented truth. The Bible wasn't written by 1 person, it's a collection of historic records - why else do you think most historians are Christian? If you want to prove to me otherwise then prove this: On the 3rd of the 4th 33ad at 3PM (according to Scripture) Jesus died and there was a total 3 hour solar eclipse of the sun. The history is completely consistent with the world, and everything else. Now there was obviously a storm - but what I want you to tell me is this: who rolled away the stone? Many Atheists were converted trying to figure out that "riddle". 2. How is that ludicrous? Grannen, I am a Jesus Freak, yes. But not an ordinary freak. If you want to call me a Jesus Freak please use Jesus' name with it. Ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadmeat_X Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Tyrell If you want to prove to me otherwise then prove this: On the 3rd of the 4th 33ad at 3PM (according to Scripture) Jesus died and there was a total 3 hour solar eclipse of the sun. The history is completely consistent with the world, and everything else. Now there was obviously a storm - but what I want you to tell me is this: who rolled away the stone? Many Atheists were converted trying to figure out that "riddle". Ty 1: Coincidence (damn spelling). Or someone just made it up to make Jesus look good 2. Who rolled away the stone? What stone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duder Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Tyrell Oh, haha. Whatever you believe isn't the truth. So it doesn’t matter because you are deceiving everyone here, I am not. I speak from experience. My "views" are just the truth, nothing more. Well, documented truth. The Bible wasn't written by 1 person, it's a collection of historic records - why else do you think most historians are Christian? What are you talking about? Most historians are christian??? You've just made that up, it's a lie. So it seems you are deceiving people, I am not deceiving anyone here. My point is that you cannot preach to people that they are wrong and you are right. Ever heard of the saying 'One mans truth is another mans lie'? People have different beliefs, and truth is only an interpretation of reality. If you want to prove to me otherwise then prove this: On the 3rd of the 4th 33ad at 3PM (according to Scripture) Jesus died and there was a total 3 hour solar eclipse of the sun. The history is completely consistent with the world, and everything else. Now there was obviously a storm - but what I want you to tell me is this: who rolled away the stone? Many Atheists were converted trying to figure out that "riddle". Im not trying to tell you that your beliefs are wrong, I am trying to say that you should try and keep an open mind to other peoples. This isn't a game! 2. How is that ludicrous? It's ludicrous because you have just written off millions of good people who have different views to your own. I thought God was forgiving. Can I just get this straight, I could never say that God doesn't exist. I simply don't know. What I do know is that I should live my life to the best ethical standard I can. Therefore I have nothing to fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrell Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Deadmeat_X 1: Coincidence (damn spelling). Or someone just made it up to make Jesus look good 2. Who rolled away the stone? What stone? 1. No, many people documented it, it can be cross-referenced (especially in the Bible, books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). And even more people saw and recorded seeing Jesus after he had been executed. 2. Anti-Christians generally don't question the history of these events but they just conclude "Jesus was an ordinary man", where the evidence is to the opposite. Believe it or not the stone that was supposed to guard Jesus' body is the least of what needs answering. Tell me who rolled it (it was a huge round thing, but I'm sure you know that), and who took the body and where they took it. And why. If you can actually figure that out then you can prove God doesn’t exist. But you can't and I know you can't. All you need is to find someone's motives and the man power to do it and how they made the guards fall asleep without injuring them. It sounds so simple doesn’t it? Many historians tried to figure it out and simply concluded that God's angels did indeed do it. Ty PS: That Jesus Freak song rocks, but I haven't hear it in years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrell Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by duder It's ludicrous because you have just written off millions of good people who have different views to your own. I thought God was forgiving. He is! But you have to ask for forgiveness when you're truly sorry. Originally posted by duder Can I just get this straight, I could never say that God doesn't exist. I simply don't know. What I do know is that I should live my life to the best ethical standard I can. Therefore I have nothing to fear. Mate, I fear God. Far more then I fer some clown like Satan. An Angel who seeks to be God? I can't let myself be deceived by him, but I must fear God because He has the power. To the best "ethical standard" that you can is only your interpretation of right and wrong, and is therefore void. You may as well let footballers make up their own rules, when you should make McDonalds sell half-decent crap instead of the mass-produced indecent cow-****é they serve instead! You could start by banning that awful soft-serve and thickshake fast crap food chains sell and replacing them with dairy, healthy alternatives. Originally posted by duder What are you talking about? Most historians are christian??? You've just made that up, it's a lie. I didn't make that up, but maybe I should be more specific: most historians, especially those who study that period (Jesus' life and beyond) are certainly Christian, and as I understand statistically speaking so are most historians. Most Scientists are atheist. (Einstein wasn't, but there's always an exception to the rule). Most Christians aren't as religious as I am. Some Christians are more religious then me! What's wrong with general statements like that? Ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natty Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Deadmeat_X 2. Who rolled away the stone? What stone? According to the bible after Jesus was nailed to the cross (and doesn't that look like fun children? That's definatly something on my to-do list in the near future.) He was put into some cave thingie, with the boulder placed into the entrance to block it up and 3days later he arose from the dead and someone moved the boulder away and the **** Mary- oooops I mean virgin Mary saw Jesus wandering around like nothing had ever happened. So that's why we got Good Friday and Easter Sunday, Good Friday is when Jesus was crucified on the cross and Sunday is when he arose from the dead. He probably didn't even die in the first place- it was probably a stunt double ala what Bin Laden apperantly does (note the huge amount of sarcasm) Pffffft how come Jesus gets to come back from the dead yet my grandfather can't and my old dog can't either. Where's the fairness in that? Just coz he's the son of God, why should he be given special priverlages- if God wants to treat us all fairly then everyone should be arisen from the dead. Tyrell- go tell God that for me will ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrell Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Natty According to the bible after Jesus was nailed to the cross (and doesn't that look like fun children? That's definatly something on my to-do list in the near future.) He was put into some cave thingie, with the boulder placed into the entrance to block it up and 3days later he arose from the dead and someone moved the boulder away and the **** Mary- oooops I mean virgin Mary saw Jesus wandering around like nothing had ever happened. So that's why we got Good Friday and Easter Sunday, Good Friday is when Jesus was crucified on the cross and Sunday is when he arose from the dead. He probably didn't even die in the first place- it was probably a stunt double ala what Bin Laden apperantly does (note the huge amount of sarcasm) Pffffft how come Jesus gets to come back from the dead yet my grandfather can't and my old dog can't either. Where's the fairness in that? Just coz he's the son of God, why should he be given special priverlages- if God wants to treat us all fairly then everyone should be arisen from the dead. Tyrell- go tell God that for me will ya? We have a good discussion going on here Natty, please don't spoil it. The resurrection is (in my opinion) more relevant then the crucifixion. Now Jesus died to take the sin of the world with him. And people saw him die and wrote that down and recorded it. But what happened next would change our religion forever. Jesus returned. And he proved beyond any doubt that his sole is alive, that he is alive, even if his body had died. He proved our God is a living God. If you pulled over to 2 men, one alive and one dead - who would you ask for directions? That's right, Jesus is God, who is a living God, the only living God, the only real God. He spent less then a day back on earth Natty, and he didn't "come back to life" as you put it because he didn't have a body. He would literally appear in the corner of a room and disappear just as quickly. But his wrists and ankles (not hands and feet) were scared where the nails had been driven in because his appearance was that of his body's. The most important thing to understand is that He is in heaven. He showed us the path to heaven. Ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guybrush122 Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 lets break this down. as Ty said Jesus died and there was a three hour eclipse and then, apparently a storm. so, the storm moved the boulder. and mary went insane with greif (very common) and hallucinated jesus alive...had anyone ELSE seen Jesus it would be a bit different. how is that rediculous? because as you say god is merciful. and he loves all his children. but do you believe that he would be so harsh as to eternally punish someone who made ONE mistake....not knowing that god exists. when you are born you are born with so many choices, Judiasm, Christianity, Protestant, Wiccan, Rastafarian etc etc. and somehow god manages to place all of those difficult descisions in front of you without a single hint in which one is right. now if god can do that then i beleive that god has heart enough to let in a good person, regardless of their beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duder Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Tyrell To the best "ethical standard" that you can is only your interpretation of right and wrong, and is therefore void. You may as well let footballers make up their own rules, when you should make McDonalds sell half-decent crap instead of the mass-produced indecent cow-****é they serve instead! You could start by banning that awful soft-serve and thickshake fast crap food chains sell and replacing them with dairy, healthy alternatives. Our own morals are what we as individuals live our lives by. What are you trying to say we are? Sheep? I am talking about my own personal ethics, what on earth has that got to do with McDonalds or football players? My interpretation of right and wrong defines me as a person, and importantly I understand that different people have different morals, and I shouldn't force my beliefs on others, it should be discussed. THIS IS MY POINT. Originally posted by Tyrell I didn't make that up, but maybe I should be more specific: most historians, especially those who study that period (Jesus' life and beyond) are certainly Christian, and as I understand statistically speaking so are most historians. I find it hard to believe that the majority of historians in Asia are christians. Statistics are notoriously misleading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brief Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Look, this is pointless. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that debating over a belief/faith never results in anything meaningful, unless you're already of the same faith. As I've said before (and was put to words more eloquently by Paul), faith is believing in something without the presence of proof. In a debate, each side must present logical evidence for there to be any resulting concensus, but since faith lacks logical evidence, you will never reach a conclusion. That's not saying that there's absolutely no evidence, just that there is no conclusive evidence. So even if one side was able to present more evidence than the other, it will never convince the other side. What you'll end up with is two sides hating each other's guts. Rather than trying to win someone over with heated debates, let your own actions speak for your faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natty Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Tyrell We have a good discussion going on here Natty, please don't spoil it. Ty I didn't spoil it you moron, I was stating my opinion, what part of the following statement don't you understand? Everyone has different religions and different beliefs- what gives you the right to tell everyone else that what the feel or think or believe is wrong? Why must you ridicule (sorry it's 8:30am my spelling is crap at this hour of the morning and being jumped on at this sort of hour by 2dogs isnt what I call fun) Anyways as I was saying- so what if people have different opnions to yours? Why should you condem them for what they believe is wrong or right? So you talk to God? Good for you, I'm sure God would rather everyone be happy and stand up for what they believe in regardless of those people believe in him or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaggisMcMuffin Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Dr. Elden Tyrell: I was just curious about what that title represents? I'm also wondering about what religion you were born into as well as what sect you are today. Now as for your comments, here are my thoughts. What makes you so sure that God is real? I'm a Lutheran and I have faith in God, but what makes you so damned sure? Osama Bin Laden has quite a lot of faith in his god too. (Most Muslims aren't as religious as he is. Some Muslims are more religious than him! - sound familiar?) How much knowledge do you even have of these different religions? Aren't many religions strikingly similar? Earlier you were talking about why the Big Bang and Evolution didn't happen. Here are my thoughts: Big Bang: I don't know much about this and don't really care, but This great bang wouldn't happen without some higher source of energy. There can't just be nothing, and then all of a sudden something appears. Whether that energy source is God, or Dark Matter, or whatever other theory, there has to be something that caused the creation of the Universe. It's up to people to decide, even though I believe it is God and encourage everyone else to believe the same. Evolution: Evolution is change over time. I don't care what anyone thinks, THERE IS NO DENYING THIS!!! IT IS AS UNDENYABLE AS MATHEMATICS!! If you accept 1 + 1 to equal 2, you accept evolution. Please research it and you should feel the same. Basically the whole thing about evolution is that the most "fit" survive. This allows them to breed, and make babies that are more "fit" for their environment, while the "un-fit" don't make it. Can't you see how this will lead to the changing of the species? Or do you not believe in DNA and all that mumbo-jumbo? There's alot more to evolution but I would rather you research it youself. I think that this is how God designed the laws of the Universe, so that life would evolve. I would be thrilled to discuss with you why you don't believe in evolution, or more about why I do. Hoping to hear from ya'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtBlanc Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by brief If there's one thing I've learned, it's that debating over a belief/faith never results in anything meaningful, unless you're already of the same faith. ... Rather than trying to win someone over with heated debates, let your own actions speak for your faith. Did you guys actually read this? Maybe you should take it to heart instead of continuing your little squabbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duder Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by brief Look, this is pointless. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that debating over a belief/faith never results in anything meaningful, unless you're already of the same faith. As I've said before (and was put to words more eloquently by Paul), faith is believing in something without the presence of proof. In a debate, each side must present logical evidence for there to be any resulting concensus, but since faith lacks logical evidence, you will never reach a conclusion. That's not saying that there's absolutely no evidence, just that there is no conclusive evidence. So even if one side was able to present more evidence than the other, it will never convince the other side. What you'll end up with is two sides hating each other's guts. Rather than trying to win someone over with heated debates, let your own actions speak for your faith. I agree with what you say, but we both seem to be keeping a level head, and I know i'm certaintly not going to hate his guts. Like the point I'm trying to make, don't dictate, or jusge people by their beliefs. Believe me, I don't want any aggression, and Tyrell dosnt seem to either, so it simply boils down to a discussion. Something other members of this forum do not seem able to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrell Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Originally posted by Guybrush122 lets break this down. as Ty said Jesus died and there was a three hour eclipse and then, apparently a storm. so, the storm moved the boulder. and mary went insane with greif (very common) and hallucinated jesus alive...had anyone ELSE seen Jesus it would be a bit different. That is wrong. The storm happened when Jesus died, while there was the 3 hours of darkness and cleared up. This was before they put him in there. Originally posted by duder Statistics are notoriously misleading! I'll agree with that: 2 different groups could take a survey on smoking, smokers and non smokers. I would be surprised if they got the same statistic, because they can choose where to take the survey. Originally posted by Natty I didn't spoil it you moron, I was stating my opinion, what part of the following statement don't you understand? I found this message somewhat offensive: Originally posted by Natty According to the bible after Jesus was nailed to the cross (and doesn't that look like fun children? That's definatly something on my to-do list in the near future.) He was put into some cave thingie, with the boulder placed into the entrance to block it up and 3days later he arose from the dead and someone moved the boulder away and the **** Mary- oooops I mean virgin Mary saw Jesus wandering around like nothing had ever happened. So that's why we got Good Friday and Easter Sunday, Good Friday is when Jesus was crucified on the cross and Sunday is when he arose from the dead. He probably didn't even die in the first place- it was probably a stunt double ala what Bin Laden apperantly does (note the huge amount of sarcasm) Pffffft how come Jesus gets to come back from the dead yet my grandfather can't and my old dog can't either. Where's the fairness in that? Just coz he's the son of God, why should he be given special priverlages- if God wants to treat us all fairly then everyone should be arisen from the dead. Tyrell- go tell God that for me will ya? Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin Dr. Elden Tyrell: I was just curious about what that title represents? I'm also wondering about what religion you were born into as well as what sect you are today. There's a rather good movie called Blade Runner, Elden Tyrell is a character in it. The film is based on the book (and is better then the book) do androids dream of electric sheep? Philip K. Dick In the novel his name was Elden Rosen. NOTE TO THE MODERATOR:Your software considers the name "Dick" to be an inappropriate word and hashes it out, so I'm breaking it now but I suggest you allow the use of this word as you do run the risk of offending someone with that name. Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin Now as for your comments, here are my thoughts. What makes you so sure that God is real? I'm a Lutheran and I have faith in God, but what makes you so damned sure? Osama Bin Laden has quite a lot of faith in his god too. (Most Muslims aren't as religious as he is. Some Muslims are more religious than him! - sound familiar?) How much knowledge do you even have of these different religions? Aren't many religions strikingly similar? God is alive Haggis. When you can understand that you can respect that a living God can talk and take actions. I'm not familiar with the term "Lutheran"? I'm a general Protestant and I attend both a Baptist and Uniting church to some degree. I was born into Christianity, but that doesn’t mean I always knew God, on that's what the confirmation is for. I confirmed when I was 16. Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin Earlier you were talking about why the Big Bang and Evolution didn't happen. Here are my thoughts: Big Bang: I don't know much about this and don't really care, but This great bang wouldn't happen without some higher source of energy. There can't just be nothing, and then all of a sudden something appears. Whether that energy source is God, or Dark Matter, or whatever other theory, there has to be something that caused the creation of the Universe. It's up to people to decide, even though I believe it is God and encourage everyone else to believe the same. The Big Bang theory doesn’t state there was once nothing, and that's the problem. Dark matter, anti matter and worm holes are all just scientific theories. There is some evidence for black holes which to me proves that this Universe can't exist forever, nor is it meant to. Also, your mentioning DNA in the next part reminds me: Our sun is (apparently) 4 Billion years old, the entire universe is 12 billion years old. In primordial soup it would (apparently) take 40-100 Billion years to randomly assemble the DNA for the simplest life (bacteria). DNA is very complicated, even for bacterium! Of course scientists usually don't proclaim this "fact". Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin Evolution: Evolution is change over time. I don't care what anyone thinks, THERE IS NO DENYING THIS!!! IT IS AS UNDENYABLE AS MATHEMATICS!! If you accept 1 + 1 to equal 2, you accept evolution. Please research it and you should feel the same. Basically the whole thing about evolution is that the most "fit" survive. This allows them to breed, and make babies that are more "fit" for their environment, while the "un-fit" don't make it. Can't you see how this will lead to the changing of the species? Or do you not believe in DNA and all that mumbo-jumbo? There's alot more to evolution but I would rather you research it youself. I think that this is how God designed the laws of the Universe, so that life would evolve. I would be thrilled to discuss with you why you don't believe in evolution, or more about why I do. I only believe in very limited evolution, I do not believe that fish grew lungs and started walking on the earth like evolutionists. And I do know that genetic mutation can occur, but this should have no effect on evolution anyway. As you say "only the fit survive", I am actually against the idea or IVF, they have now got as far as genetically screening the eggs/sperm and selecting the best from them in fact they don't even need sperm, I do believe the film Gattaca is a fairly realistic look at what could happen. But besides that I still think it is wrong and selfish to have children through IVF for whatever reason, there's always the good option of adoption if you can't have kids, lesbians shouldn't even exist, etc. Originally posted by HaggisMcMuffin Hoping to hear from ya'! Well I try my best. Originally posted by duder I agree with what you say, but we both seem to be keeping a level head, and I know i'm certaintly not going to hate his guts. Like the point I'm trying to make, don't dictate, or jusge people by their beliefs. Believe me, I don't want any aggression, and Tyrell dosnt seem to either, so it simply boils down to a discussion. Something other members of this forum do not seem able to do. Quite right. This is a peaceful discussion, and there need be no wars here. Ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natty Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 Tyrell don't take 2different posts of mine and try to pass it off as the same post- that's not fair, and it's considered lying which is a sin, you of all people should know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al-back from the BigWhoop Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 FIRST OF ALL, I AGREE W BRIEF. WOT IM POSTING HERE IS NOT A FIGHT. ITS MY OPINION IN A PEACEFUL DISCUSSION BETWEEN FRIENDS. Originally posted by Tyrell On the 3rd of the 4th 33ad at 3PM (according to Scripture) Jesus died and there was a total 3 hour solar eclipse of the sun. Did u whatch that true story movie about a french guy that was taken by canibals? He read in the newspaper earlier that there was gonna happen an eclipsis the day he was gonna get eaten. He pretended to control the eclipsis and got away. Also, true fact: The moment i installed my first videogame, when i was 7, there was a solar eclisis. The second it was over, i had just killed the first boss. Now thats a pretty good coincidence, huh? Originally posted by Tyrell 2. Anti-Christians generally don't question the history of these events but they just conclude "Jesus was an ordinary man", where the evidence is to the opposite. Believe it or not the stone that was supposed to guard Jesus' body is the least of what needs answering. Tell me who rolled it (it was a huge round thing, but I'm sure you know that), and who took the body and where they took it. And why. If you can actually figure that out then you can prove God doesn’t exist. did u ever whatch a movie w Antonio Bandeiras called The Body? It´s about an archeologist that found wot could b jesus body, so the whole movie is this fight between the religions. its awfully good, i sujest u would whatch it in my oppinion, i think jesus was so ordinary, that he ddnt even want to form a new religion. Thats wot i think, i think he was just preaching love thy every1, etc, and ppl took it way too seriously (or maybe too seriously in a worng way, or diffrent than Jesus intended to Originally posted by Tyrell But you can't and I know you can't. All you need is to find someone's motives and the man power to do it and how they made the guards fall asleep without injuring them. It sounds so simple doesn’t it? Many historians tried to figure it out and simply concluded that God's angels did indeed do it. Ty Fact: throughout all history, there has always been men with the only intention to b rich and powerful Fact: throughout all history, there has always been bribe Fact: throughout all history, there has always been suckers (not saying u or christians r suckers) and fanatics Fact: throughout all history, there has always been ppl that didnt want to admit that they were worng Now put all those together. starting to make sence, huh? Our sun is (apparently) 4 Billion years old, the entire universe is 12 billion years old. In primordial soup it would (apparently) take 40-100 Billion years to randomly assemble the DNA for the simplest life (bacteria). im sorry, but the 3 facts stated there r not true And I do know that genetic mutation can occur, but this should have no effect on evolution anyway. mutation is wot evolution is all about :eek: AND THIS IS FUNNY, JUST THOUGH I WOULD DROP THIS IN:: RELIGIOUS MAN: Tell me, atheist, how was the universe formed? ATHEIST: I dont know RELIGIOUS MAN: Tell me, atheist, where did we all come from? ATHEIST: I dont know RELIGIOUS MAN: Tell me, atheist, wots the meaning of life ATHEIST: I dont know RELIGIOUS MAN: You atheists are like blind men in a dark room looking for a black cat that isnt there. ATHEIST: And you religious guys are like blind men in a dark room looking for a black cat that isnt there, and u guys find it! btw: Quite right. This is a peaceful discussion, and there need be no wars here. HELL YEAH!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaggisMcMuffin Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 Tyrell: Hehe, I thought that was like your real name Anyway, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A LUTHERAN IS?!! Havn't you ever heard of Martin Luther? And I'm not talking about the black guy, I'm talking about that German Monk that hammered the 95 theses on the church door!! You HAVE TO know who he is!! Anyway, why would God make dinosaurs just to let them go extinct? Unless it was some Bigger plan that would somehow lead to the evolution of people. Also, what about the cambrian era? There were many weird and diverse species of animals that went extinct. Why would God make these creatures unless it was necessary because of evolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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