ShadowcasT Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 How will it work ?!? I ear the game will focus a lot on third person saber combat ,but what about us conservative types whos only interest in life is to avoid third person perspective ?!? The JK system wasn't bad ,but i was hoping for some improvement. I had a idea for first person saber managing ,but with the game so close to release i doubt it'll mean much. Anywho ,while playing JK ,i used to think a lot on how to improve the system in order to make it more realistic. 1) The first thing that bugged me was that the weapon wasn't a physical object ,but a mere animated model. The damage point was fixed on the center like with any regular weapon ,and just didn't felt like branding a sword. Instead than using a animated model ,why not creating a full 3d object like for instance in Trespasser ?!? This way ,everytime you swing you'll hit everything in the path of the sword ,may that be in front of you or right on your left ,when the swing of the weapon starts. A real sword would get stuck everywhere ,but a light saber has a clipping attribute to begin with ,and every strike would thrust throught anything. To make an example you should be able to kill mutliple enemies with a single blow. This would also fix a second problem the old system had : When you strike an opponent with a melee weapon as long as swords are ,there is no way you're going to miss unless your adversary moves or deflects the blow. Assume you never used a sword. Try to step up close to a dummy and strike it ,then start hovering about and keep hitting the dummy,you'll notice you won't miss once. In the game ,you'll probably miss 70% of the time ,the controls simply can't coope with our natural coordination ,this is why short cuts are needed ,eitherwise you're going to have a hell of time implementing realism (Trespasser anybody ?!? ) 2) Selecting the sword should enter a 'passive' mode ,in whitch only fire shots are deflected. By pressing the fire button (and keeping it pressed ) you'll enter a 'action' mode ,in whitch whatever side you move your mouse the sword would swing along with a proper animation (combining free look with sword controll). This means that if you jump into a fight and start moving the mouse around you would cause a havoc of destruction ,as you should ,or if the sword was to leave marks on walls ,you should be able to write your name with it (as long as it doesn't contain round letters ) Many times in JK i wished to 'force' run into a horde of enemies and start swinging right and left while cutting throught their formation ,and this system should allow just that. In duels,you will hit unless another saber is on the way ,in whitch case the word will automatically parry the attack. A figthing sequence would require skill ,as you would not only have to anticipate a attack ,but also determine it's direction and be ready for a follow up. For instance ,if a enemy swings at you're head (no decapitation allowed in Star Wars hu ?!? ,a pity ) you can crouch down and swing on his legs ,step forward and swing up ,creating a continous attack ,at whitch point your enemy could take the damage ,swing down and stop the attack ,or step aside and hit you on a flank ,and so forth. Sounds complicate ,but consider the swords will move pretty fast and will be always very close to each other ,whitch means the fight will play like in the movie ,lots of parries and few decisive hits. To avoid wild random attacks ,one should add a fatigue bar limiting the number of crazy swinging allowed. 3) The Right mouse button should serve as a special attack of sort ,but i can't think of anything unique enought to be relevant during a duel ,expecially considering the force powers. Perhaps you can just add to it you're favored force power (like push). Mmmh ,reading my own ideas made me realize how much of a newbie i am to come up with crazy and 'dreamy' features such as those ,but then again ,they are just ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowbieOne Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Hey ShadowcasT, welcome to JK2.net. You have some very good points there. First of all, worry not about the Lightsaber being TOTALLY interactive at all times, meaning whatever it touches gets damaged. Almost everything you want from saber duels, is exactly how it's gonna be. There will be a bunch more moves, this time with combos, defensive moves, rolls, flips, wall jumps, and who knows what else. I recommend you tear through the official JK2 page for info, and read all the previews and misc. info here at JK2.net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nykel007 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 That's a real good idea of 1st per. LS combat. Don't fear however, if you know or seen the Quake3 engine even Quake2, they have very good animations for like the hands as an example, to me the hands were quite amazing done in Q2. So don't fret, 1st per is giong to be done well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhuf Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Instead than using a animated model ,why not creating a full 3d object like for instance in Trespasser ?!? Heavens no. Tresspasser is infamous for its horribly frustrating 'arm simulator' control system. The detailed level of saber control you are looking for might not be available, or even appropriate for an action game such as Outcast. On the other hand, with per-polygon collision detection, accurate location-based damage will indeed be supported in Jedi Outcast. Thus, as Raven have said, a headshot with the lightsaber (a 3d object) will cause more damage than say, a touch on the arm. Along with the improved collision detection is the Quake3 client-server network code. Attack what you see. No 'prediction bubbles' to deal with. Saber duels will not likely be as clumsy or random as in the original Jedi Knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Welcome to the forums, ShadowcasT. I hope you enjoy your stay. Here... *hands over a chocolate Jedi Medallion* There you go... As SlowbieOne said, the lightsaber in JKII will damage anything with which it comes into contact, even accidentally. You can see this in some of the gameplay video footage taken at E3, available for download from this page. By pressing the fire button (and keeping it pressed ) you'll enter a 'action' mode ,in whitch whatever side you move your mouse the sword would swing along with a proper animation (combining free look with sword controll). Actually, I don't think that would work, particularly as you circle-strafe your opponent. You need to move the mouse to keep looking at your opponent - so that would mean you would be continuously swinging your saber while in 'action' mode...i.e., you would not really be able to control the type of swing you wished to make. Mouse control of saber moves has been rigorously (and hotly) debated in the past, believe me. However, with the movement-based attacks, I'm sure we'll see a greater and more intuitive range of attacks, which takes a step closer to your quest for more realistic battles. And heed the wisdom of Wilhuf... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_silvergun Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Originally posted by StormHammer: Actually, I don't think that would work, particularly as you circle-strafe your opponent. You need to move the mouse to keep looking at your opponent - so that would mean you would be continuously swinging your saber while in 'action' mode...i.e., you would not really be able to control the type of swing you wished to make. Mouse control of saber moves has been rigorously (and hotly) debated in the past, believe me. It certainly has. For what you describe, ShadowcasT, a "lock-on" system, much like the one LEC proposed for PC Obi-Wan would be needed, otherwise you'd have to keep switching in and out of "action mode" to keep looking at your opponent. From what I heard, that system didn't work too well in Obi-Wan. And fear not, the saber will damage everything it comes into contect with (see the E3 footage or the third wallpaper on the new <A HREF="http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/">Jedi Knight II website</A> for proof of this). And as the others have already said, welcome to the forums, ShadowcasT. Hope you enjoy your stay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowcasT Posted January 18, 2002 Author Share Posted January 18, 2002 Originally posted by ed_silvergun It certainly has. For what you describe, ShadowcasT, a "lock-on" system, much like the one LEC proposed for PC Obi-Wan would be needed, otherwise you'd have to keep switching in and out of "action mode" to keep looking at your opponent. From what I heard, that system didn't work too well in Obi-Wan. And fear not, the saber will damage everything it comes into contect with (see the E3 footage or the third wallpaper on the new <A HREF="http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/">Jedi Knight II website</A> for proof of this). And as the others have already said, welcome to the forums, ShadowcasT. Hope you enjoy your stay! Thanks for all the welcomes Glad to see the physical properties of the sword are finally implemented (that was what i meant to say with the comparison with Trespasser.Indeed ,god forbits that blasted arm ,it was just it's physics i was interested to ). As for the sword control ,perhaps you might be right ,but remember that switching between sword control and free look would be very easy. You click the fire button ,and you enter sword control\mouse look mode,you release the button ,you go back in mouse look only mode. Mmmh ,maybe by the time JKIII is out somebody will figure out a way to fix this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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