Agen Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 U can also slam people off walls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD_ToRMeNt Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 If you had any potential at all to become good GAMERS and not just SWs fans, you would stop complaining about how "cheap" grip was and learn to use it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Originally posted by Obi Toggle hacks don't come with the game, Deathbolt. I've just lost any respect I had for you Obi I've had far too many matches where I've beaten good darkies(especially since I've had far less experience than those darkies) as a lighty, countering what you say is cheap and lacking any decent counters, thus proving your theories wrong and you go and do something childish like accusing me of cheating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps2maddenman Posted February 17, 2002 Author Share Posted February 17, 2002 "I've had far too many matches where I've beaten good darkies" LOL, that sounds like something that you don't mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazilla Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 "No honorable player will use protection" (or something like that), well, I'm sorry my friend, but if a darksider is using grip on a lightsider in a saber-only battle, protection is pretty much the only thing left to use, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD_ToRMeNt Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 If you use protection in BGJ you will be hard to kill, but you also won't get hardly any kills yourself and you'lll most likely end up in last place. Other people will just be ignore you and fight some one else. You cant keep up without speed anyways. If you use protection in a guns levels (like oasis) you're a very easy target for a gunner. If you're in a game with experts, you won't get any kills and you'll get blasted pretty hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broode Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 I am sick and tired of people saying "its part of the game live with it" when sometime its not supposed to be part of the game, whether its a bug or a balence problem, some people have learnt to use that so much to their advantage that they couldn't play decently it the problem was rectified. Look, we're talking about JO now, not JK. This is a completely different game. It may resemble JK in some ways, but let me tell you now, justifying a bad move in gameplay with JK as an example is not a good move. Sure, it may please you, being able to play the game you've played for years, just on a different engine. But dont forget, Lucasarts is still about MONEY. They (and us too, in fact) encourage new players to pick up the series, to give them money and populate our servers. Having a game that only appeals to hardcore JK fanatics may sound good to you on paper, but that is a target audience of about... 300 people? Maybe more, maybe less, i haven't been to the zone in a long time. Anyway, it doesn't matter. What matters is improving the game over JK, and then making that appealing to a larger target audience. And don't even bother trying to start a flame war, I won't reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazilla Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 You know what, you're completely right. I don't think that evenn the hardcore JK gamers will want a JK with better graphics and new story...you have to have the innovation side of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Originally posted by Broode Look, we're talking about JO now, not JK. This is a completely different game. It may resemble JK in some ways, but let me tell you now, justifying a bad move in gameplay with JK as an example is not a good move. Sure, it may please you, being able to play the game you've played for years, just on a different engine. This thread had drifted from choke in jo to choke in jk, and the discussion was over whether grip in jk was balanced or not. In ff, whether I was practicing to get better at bgj ff, I'd play dark. In tourneys, I'd play light because that was significantly easier to go toe to toe with the upper echelons of bgj ff players as. As a competitive lighty(who was always being the one gripped) that has gone toe to toe with some of the best bgj ff players who have learned to use grip to its fullest, I think I'm pretty qualified to determine if it was unbalanced or not. Regardless, if we're taking the subject back over to grip in JO, I agree with the others on whether grip should imobilize or not. I think there should be no power that allows you to imobilize your opponent. Why? Because the saber will be significantly deadly with pixel-pixel collision detection and the new netcode. Imoblizing someone is likely to leave them significantly vunerable to the grip-saber slash combo. Take note: because of pixel-pixel collision detection and the netcode.. not because of the new eye candy moves like the flips, etc. most of the top competitive gamers I know are not likely likely to even use have the eye-candy elaborate moves they're going to include in there. As long as the graphics are decent most competitive gamers care more about gameplay than eye-candy. Also note: the majority of competitive gamers do not want a jk clone out of jo, but we also don't want a slow elaborate fencing game either. But dont forget, Lucasarts is still about MONEY. They (and us too, in fact) encourage new players to pick up the series, to give them money and populate our servers. Having a game that only appeals to hardcore JK fanatics may sound good to you on paper, but that is a target audience of about... 300 people? Maybe more, maybe less, i haven't been to the zone in a long time. Anyway, it doesn't matter. What matters is improving the game over JK, and then making that appealing to a larger target audience. I know, thats why they're including all those little eye candy moves with the lightsaber combat, etc. No top compettive gamer is probably going to use those moves, but they include it anyways. In JK, anyone could have 'movie-like' duels. But only if both players were willing to make-believe. You could make movie-like duels available to those who wanted them, but not force movie-like duels on those who didn't want them. This means keeping the small things like the pace of the game, etc. for those who want it. Nothing ever stopped you from having movie-like duels in the game except for both player's desire to. If you could never find anyone who would pretend to be a jedi with you, that means the everyone you encountered didn't want to play jedi with you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkpanther718 Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 I don't know what you are talking about when you say the "competetive gamers" won't use the acrobatic moves and that they are purely there for graphical enhancement. Thats really not the case from what I've read. It looks to me as though those moves will be essential to success. I could be wrong, but if "competetive gamers" think they will get around using these moves, they are most likely in for a big suprise as I am fairly sure that these moves will be essential to combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 I don't know what you are talking about when you say the "competetive gamers" won't use the acrobatic moves and that they are purely there for graphical enhancement. Thats really not the case from what I've read. It looks to me as though those moves will be essential to success. I could be wrong, but if "competetive gamers" think they will get around using these moves, they are most likely in for a big suprise as I am fairly sure that these moves will be essential to combat. Competitive gamers will not sit there and duel elaborately. They will go for quick attacks that expose them to the least amount of danger.. elaborate saber duels like those on 'art of the lightsbaer for mots', 'sbx' etc. mods aren't something thats going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkpanther718 Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Ok, you believe what you want, but when I'm about to be shot, If I am able to flip or roll out of the way I think i'll do it. If you want to be a 'competetive gammer" you can just stand there or try to run out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Originally posted by pinkpanther718 Ok, you believe what you want, but when I'm about to be shot, If I am able to flip or roll out of the way I think i'll do it. If you want to be a 'competetive gammer" you can just stand there or try to run out of the way. from what i've seen in the trailers, they don't appear to have that much value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanke4252 Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 deathbolt, i dont think that they will have the super powerful second swing of the secondary attack move available to you hardcore gamers. I am pretty sure that saber duels in this game will consist of more than running up at 100mph midway through your secondary swing so that you can kill them in one slash without having to block or anything else. Remember, this game is set in the starwars universe, and i never once recall seeing or reading about people running around a room at 90mph swinging lightsabers around without them ever hitting, that is not in the starwars universe. Maybe someone will make a JK mod for you though deathbolt, so you can run around at 90mph and kill people in one shot and force grip, that would be fun wouldnt it. If i had some inferority complex, and i wanted to feel like i was superior to people like that I would just go sack and camp somebody's base in Tribes (which i make a point not to). I think that the point of this game is to invent something new and better, but base it loosely on the past game (JK). Now i dont think their goal is to drive off all non-hardcore JK gamers, so you might want to start realizing that this game is not JK and you will not be able to use the same tactics. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Competitive gamers will not sit there and duel elaborately. They will go for quick attacks that expose them to the least amount of danger.. elaborate saber duels like those on 'art of the lightsbaer for mots', 'sbx' etc. mods aren't something thats going to happen. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is correct, these mods arent going to happen because they will be part of the game already (if you havent been watching the previews). Before you decide what people are and arent going to do, play the game. I have my opinions but I am not making blind claims on what people will or will not do before even playing a beta copy of the game. Now lets all stop talking about how uber we were in JK and how eveyrone else cant play etc etc, and post constructively. If you are not able to do that then go use your super duper force grip counter attacks in JK and leave us without your one sided posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 God Dammit, i was a darkie, fair enough. I gripped people. they a)easily absorbed or b)Used destruction. Those are the 2 easiest defenses against grip. I had no prb with grip. Destruct back or force jump into water. So when did all the newbie anti-grip stuff come about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanke4252 Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 The newbie anti grip stuff came up a long time ago when myself and everyone who hated it stopped playing. The problem with grip in JK1 is that there was no risk in using it. You would always hit and you never suffered any penalty when it was countered. When you shoot you lessen your ammo whether you hit or not. When you force destruct you lessen your force pool. When you do any of the other offensive force powers you will suffer a penalty whether you hit them or not, but not with force choke. Because of this, force choke became a way for people to damage others without any risk or skill involved. When you saber duel you have to get close to them to hit, which means that they also have a chance to hit you with their saber as well (risk/reward). Now i would not have a problem with it if there was a way to counter it before it effected you. You can counter everything else before they actually effect you (except force deadly sight which costs mana whether you hit or not). The only way to do that is to not let the other person see you, which would mean that you wouldnt be able to play the game as it was intended. I think that these are the reasons that myself and other people, who you call n00bs, have a problem with it. You never heard this before because we either stopped playing most public multiplayer games that had full force, or we stopped playing all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 deathbolt, i dont think that they will have the super powerful second swing of the secondary attack move available to you hardcore gamers. They probably won't; so it will take a few more hits to bring them down. I am pretty sure that saber duels in this game will consist of more than running up at 100mph midway through your secondary swing so that you can kill them in one slash without having to block or anything else. I'd have to imagine nf sabers will be more complex than jk nf sabers, however, a major key to victory in all games is to keep moving, and I'm not, and I doubt any other competitive gamer is going to sit around trying to play like obi-wan, darth maul, etc. do. People will still be trying to outmaneuver their opponents, dart in, get a few swings in, and then retreat to safety. Useful blocking is going to make it a little more complex, but I look foward to a little more challenge. Remember, this game is set in the starwars universe, and i never once recall seeing or reading about people running around a room at 90mph swinging lightsabers around without them ever hitting, that is not in the starwars universe. This is typically one of the largest differences between the newbie/starwars/mod community and the competitive gamer community. You guys like to pretend that you're Luke Skywalker and we are willing to sacrafice reality for gameplay. Maybe someone will make a JK mod for you though deathbolt, so you can run around at 90mph and kill people in one shot and force grip, that would be fun wouldnt it. I won't need a mod if its different than JK; and that brings me to point out another difference between the newbie/starwars/mod community and the competitive gamers community; we don't sit there and *****, call it cheap, or whatever about a aspect of the game; we deal with it and learn to use it our advantage. I think that the point of this game is to invent something new and better, but base it loosely on the past game (JK). Now i dont think their goal is to drive off all non-hardcore JK gamers, so you might want to start realizing that this game is not JK and you will not be able to use the same tactics. I recognize this; I've also gotten a good idea from the trailer what sort of game play will be featured in saber play and I am able to recognize what tactics still might have application in JK2. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Competitive gamers will not sit there and duel elaborately. They will go for quick attacks that expose them to the least amount of danger.. elaborate saber duels like those on 'art of the lightsbaer for mots', 'sbx' etc. mods aren't something thats going to happen. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is correct, these mods arent going to happen because they will be part of the game already (if you havent been watching the previews). Read my quote more carefully: ..elaborate saber duels like those on 'art of the lightsbaer for mots', 'sbx' etc. mods .. Before you decide what people are and arent going to do, play the game. I have my opinions but I am not making blind claims on what people will or will not do before even playing a beta copy of the game. I could be wrong about what people are likely to use and not use. But the trailers have given me some idea of what parts will be useful. Hardly blind claims at all. Now lets all stop talking about how uber we were in JK and how eveyrone else cant play etc etc, and post constructively. I hate sounding elitist so I would never point out my skill in JK unless I needed to prove my knowledge in a matter that this post is debating over. If you are not able to do that then go use your super duper force grip counter attacks in JK and leave us without your one sided posts. I've got every right to post my opinions about a game that I am buying, just like you. If you disagree with them, you're welcome to post your own opposing view points. Don't go off telling me to quit talking about something you don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanke4252 Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Also, keep in mind that MOST people arent "top competative gamers". Most people buy games to enjoy them, not to play competatively with people who dont do anything else with their life but play that game. I dont really care about being a "good gamer", I care about enjoying the game that I am playing, and it is often very hard to do just that when people feel the need to log into a server and talk about how "l33t" they are and run around at force speed force gripping people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon says Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 I agree, and it looks like JO is gonna require people to actually have skills instead of being able to press buttons at the right time. Should make it more fun for normal peeps, and give the 'competative gamers' something to keep em competative about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qtseng Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 What's your definition of "skill"? For me, it does include pressing the button at the right time. Good coordination, that's a skill. However, it is true that Force Grip might be overpowered. We'll just have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon says Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 In JO we will be able to use all kinds of acrobatic moves and stuff, and putting them all together and using them effectively with the 3 lightsaber stances and force powers is part of my definition of skill. While 'pressing a button at the right time' was pretty much all u needed in JK, JO will be much more demanding, i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 I have reservations about Grip in JO featuring the imobilizing effect, as the saber will be more dangerous. If the saber is as effective as I think it is, I fear that a grip + slash combo could be extremely lethal. In JK, you always had the difficulty of landing a hit in JK to save you whereas in JO, a saber probably could easily land a hit in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanke4252 Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 sorry death, i got a little mad there, i just get a little upset, but just try not to discount parts of the game without playing it, especially when those parts of the game are what 90% of the people are looking forward to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD_ToRMeNt Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Hehe sounds like Deathbolt is getting a bit upset. I understand, it's so frustrating arguing with cluessless newbies. But I can confirm what db said, hell I've said the same things myself ever since I started to get good. There are going to be people who just want to pretend they are luke skywalker, and there are people who are going to take the game and turn it into a science. The later will get so good that the Luke Skywalker wannabes will call them "hacker" after getting raped into the negs by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanke4252 Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 First off, i hate luke skywalker for a number of reasons. Number 1, haircut. Number 2, mark hamill. Number 3, haircut. I dont mind being killed as long as it takes skill and kind of flows with the game. I like being blown up and all that stuff and being killed in a legitimate saber battle, but I just cant stand being killed by something where there is no risk to use it (force choke). I suck in JK, and there is nothing more that I enjoy than going after someone who legitimatly killed me and trying to get them, but usually failing. I dont want to be uber, I just want to have a good time failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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