Sabs vs. guns in MP, some people never learn...

[Phydeaux{RoA}]

Originally posted by chiablo

the only game I have ever played online with the purpose of winning has been Unreal Tournament.

 

Where do you play? Clan RoA is a leading force in the UT CTF LGI 135/35 arena. Stop by the RoA servers sometime! We're in the list under CSHP (m) RoA...

 

As for me, I like identifying weaknesses in myself and my opponents. If they're reliant on gun-spamming, I go at then with the saber. If they're flailing around with the saber, I hit them with heavy alt-fire or snipe them between swings or do long-range disruptor shots. I move around. I change my routine. I alternate between using force and not. Surprise is a weapon, and I use it whenever I can.

[Forhekset]

Originally posted by VaderJM

Lightning, the thing is, unless they're in a formal duel, they're fair game from any angle with any weapon.

 

I think this quote here best sums up my feelings on "dirty tactics". I mean, I've never considered myself a dirty player. I don't cheat or hack, but I do use any method I can find to kill. For example, I do stuff like:

 

Fire rockets into groups of people from an inconspicuous spot. It isn't my fault that you're not paying attention to your surroundings and didn't see me, is it? Yeah, maybe I tend to camp a wee bit, but not at spawn points or something, just when I find a good area where I have nice view of things. And if it pisses you off, then come frag me.

 

"Butt in" on sabre duels. If a couple of guys are obliviously sabre-ing away at each other and I can take them both out with a well placed rocket, they're gonna get one. As many people have mentioned, there's a duel game mode and a formal duel function, so if you really don't want to be interrupted....there's your solution.

 

I never thought I was being "cheap" or something. But it seems like a lot of you guys have your own set of rules that you expect everyone else to play by. I play to have fun and kill a bunch of people before they kill me. Honor? Um yeah...it's a video game. Get a grip on reality.

 

As for guns vs. sabres, I don't really think one's better than the other. Depends on the situation, your playing style, and a bunch of other things. I also agree with something someone else said about a lot of people who stick to sabres-only are new players who aren't hardcore FPSer guys (but are hardcore SW fans) which is why they end up getting their asses kicked by old-school FPSers. That leads to a perception that the lightsabre is weak compared to the guns, which I don't think is the case.

[madrebel]

a skilled gunner will always defeat a saberist of equal skill.

 

guns = ranged

 

saber = mellee

 

 

if i can hit you from distance and you cant hit me i win. never forget gunners have force power too. so when you say well ill just do this this and this and ill win. no you wont cause ill do, this this and that to counter you all the while shooting at you from out of your saber range.

[Hot_Pocket]

In JK1 force pull was the ultimate power and using sabers was the best. All u would do is use force pull, take the persons gun and just slash um or use their own gun against em. JK2 is different because u need force pull on max to do this effectively, and u need a lot of force points, in JK1 u could put as much or as little force power as u wanted on force pull. Anyway in JK2 i use a mix of the guns and sabers, I find it difficult to use a saber without a lot of force powers to back it up.

[Zek]

Guns and Sabers are equally viable, neither one owns the other. The advantages and disadvantages:

 

Guns - Advantages: Explosives are the best for taking out crowds of people/anyone close enough, the sniper rifle is the best for sniping, and the others are good for all around long distance damage.

 

Disadvantages: No defense besides Push while using guns, all projectiles are stoppable(saber and Push can stop anything to my knowledge), and guns can be pulled.

 

Sabers - Advantages: Saber throw provides ranged attack, projectiles can be blocked, melee attacks can only be stopped by another saber. Acrobatics are good for avoiding projectiles and making yourself hard to hit.

 

Disadvantages: Short range on melee attacks, and saber throw is slower than guns.

 

Sabers are much more well rounded weapons, while guns can be switched for different situations. The best tactic is to use them interchangably. There's nothing wrong with "gunwhoring"; if you want to saber duel, join a saber only server.

[madrebel]

Originally posted by Zek

Guns and Sabers are equally viable, neither one owns the other. The advantages and disadvantages:

 

Guns - Advantages: Explosives are the best for taking out crowds of people/anyone close enough, the sniper rifle is the best for sniping, and the others are good for all around long distance damage.

 

Disadvantages: No defense besides Push while using guns, all projectiles are stoppable(saber and Push can stop anything to my knowledge), and guns can be pulled.

 

Sabers - Advantages: Saber throw provides ranged attack, projectiles can be blocked, melee attacks can only be stopped by another saber. Acrobatics are good for avoiding projectiles and making yourself hard to hit.

 

Disadvantages: Short range on melee attacks, and saber throw is slower than guns.

 

Sabers are much more well rounded weapons, while guns can be switched for different situations. The best tactic is to use them interchangably. There's nothing wrong with "gunwhoring"; if you want to saber duel, join a saber only server.

am i the only one who uses force jump? gunners can avoid attacks just as easy as saberists.

[Forhekset]

Originally posted by madrebel

a skilled gunner will always defeat a saberist of equal skill.

 

guns = ranged

 

saber = mellee

 

 

if i can hit you from distance and you cant hit me i win. never forget gunners have force power too. so when you say well ill just do this this and this and ill win. no you wont cause ill do, this this and that to counter you all the while shooting at you from out of your saber range.

 

Well, that would be kind of silly if the sabre guy just stood there swinging at you from a mile away hoping somehow he would hit you, wouldn't it? I don't think anyone is saying that the lightsabre is the counterweapon to any type of gun attack you can think of (unless they're completely ignorant). If the sabre guy was smart, he'd switch to a ranged weapon to keep you under fire, til he could close in on you, then switch to sabre once he had you cornered.

[Pipe Smoke]

One wonders why anyone with so little respect for the saber would even be playing JK or JK2 in the first place.

 

And not just Q3A or whatever.

[Essobie]

Originally posted by Pipe Smoke

One wonders why anyone with so little respect for the saber would even be playing JK or JK2 in the first place.

 

And not just Q3A or whatever.

 

What does "respect" have to do with anything? The Lightsaber is basically just a really versatile version of the Quake 1 Axe... it does tons of damage, but only up close. I say versitile because it can block shots, but that only helps sometimes.

 

This is the same sort of argument that people made back in the JK1 days... "You may have the highest score, but I can take you in a lightsaber duel any day!" etc.

 

Granted, JK2's lightsaber is 200% more effective in a client/server architecture than JK1's peer-to-peer random melee fighting, but the main thing is that the lightsaber is NOT the most devestating weapon in the game... just the most versitile.

 

Essobie

[Kinopio]

Originally posted by madrebel

a skilled gunner will always defeat a saberist of equal skill.

 

guns = ranged

 

saber = mellee

 

Givin the situation(closed or open area) matters also. So many times i've killed gunners with saber throw, if i'm out of force, then i'll switch to a gun. But more often i keep my saber out and dodge fire with roll/wallkicks/wallwalks, fighting against heavy repeater users i see them run out of ammo most of the time cause those alt fire attacks eat up ammo fast. I don't 'always' use the saber, i just use a lot cause it's something different, and going against gun users is a challenge, and to me challenges are FUN.

[madrebel]

Originally posted by Pipe Smoke

One wonders why anyone with so little respect for the saber would even be playing JK or JK2 in the first place.

 

And not just Q3A or whatever.

you ready to fight me yet pole smoker?

 

sabers only no force.

 

server is 64.32.167.12 ping it. its time for you to die!

[madrebel]

Originally posted by Kinopio

 

Givin the situation(closed or open area) matters also. So many times i've killed gunners with saber throw, if i'm out of force, then i'll switch to a gun. But more often i keep my saber out and dodge fire with roll/wallkicks/wallwalks, fighting against heavy repeater users i see them run out of ammo most of the time cause those alt fire attacks eat up ammo fast. I don't 'always' use the saber, i just use a lot cause it's something different, and going against gun users is a challenge, and to me challenges are FUN.

so then youre not one of those dorks that says "i only use sabers and i beat god with a 600 ping". Fine im not talking about or to you. you already understand the saber isnt the best weapon for every situation.

[Riven_BW]

After reading through this thread I have to throw my 2 cents in.

 

First, to VaderJM. I don't want to drag this off topic, but when someone is so blatantly full of crap, I do feel the need to say something. Vader, you can talk all you want about your 'samurai blood' and how someone in your family actually has a katana. You can crap on about how you could beat '90%' of us in a real sword fight. You are apparantly a 14 year old wannabe. Having earned my Shodan in Eishinryu Iaido in Kochi prefecture, Japan, I can tell how much 'training' you've done with the sword just by your words on here. The way of the sword is more than practicing some moves in your back yard: it is a state of mind. Along with that state of mind comes a restraint of speech and action that you obviously lack. None of the truly dangerous people I have ever met have a need to tell everyone how great they are - be it regarding computer games or real life.

 

As for the 'gunwhores' and any others amongst you who laugh about people wanting there to be 'honor' in a computer game. You either have honor or you do not. Honor is not a 'when I feel like it' thing. Honor (or lack thereof) is in every action in your life, in every thought in your mind. Sadly it is generally idiots who treat online gaming as something completely disassociated with their real life that ruin online games. It would appear most of them are either 12, or have the maturity of a twelve year old.

 

So called 'gunwhores' who think they can own anyone anytime on any server: what are you doing playing this game? If you think guns are so much more powerful, you obviously must be pretty damned lame to even be playing JKII as you obviously are desparate to get kills, and the only way you can do so is by killing people using what you consider an inferior weapon. This game was built on the Quake 3 engine. It doesn't look worlds ahead of Quake 3 graphics wise. If all you want to do is shoot guns and get frags, go play quake 3. This is a themed game, built around a highly developed and clearly defined science fiction universe. By posting on here saying honor has no place, and guns are the best and you can own anyone, all you do is show yourself as someone without the ability to compete in another arena designed purely for the atmosphere of 'shoot everyone in the back' you so clearly desire.

[Painreliever]

I gotta say, I just got done playing on line and it suprises me to no end how some people are just sore losers. I only played like 5 rounds Won 2 of them and came in second on 2. The first round I got in latre but some dude had like 20 more kills then everyone, after watching him play for a while I noticed he only was almost exclusively using the golan for taking out people in groups. Now nobody complained as long as he was on the server about how that was cheap or he was a lamma. I came in 2nd to him my 2nd and 3rd rounds. Well he left and I won the 4th round. The next two people below me said I was a loser, llama. GG everyone, except pain. I fail to see how people can criticize my tactics. Be smart or something and get over it. Don't want to die, you don't have to walk right next to the explosive I planted. Don't want to die, don't stand near the freaking edge! Don't want to get killed by a gun don't play on a gun server! I never complain about someone else using what is in the game to win, but it urks me to no end when someone complains what you do and yet they are playing exactly the same way. This one guy who I won't name had comments after both my wins saying I was a llama, yet the last level he alomst exclusively camped the health/shield/repeater area on one map(can't remember the name). The two rounds I won he was second, and he wants to whine about cheap tactics.

 

If I go into a gun server and accept a duel I do it because I don't care if I win, there is not enough time to duel if you want to win. If I don't care about winning I am all for it, but come on! People if you don't like dying then learn how to play the game! I am still learning, I can take my dying with humility, why is it when people lose they resort to kick voting and name calling instead of thinking about how they can beat the "llamas" strategy. I shouldn't have to put up with abuse because people can't deal with losing. They obviously aren't having any fun, go play a game you can have fun playing and stop trying to ruin the fun I am having playing the game the way it was meant to be played! (At least on any server running FFA with Guns)

[Retro]

Well, I dont complain about dying, BUT. If you can win using primary fire on any non splash damage funs, Kudos. It's the people who spam repeater alt-fire, fletheete alt-fire, and rockets at close range, then say they are the best ever, that just really need to calm down. There isn't much skill in spamming a gun that cant miss, and fires fast as hell.

[Essobie]

Originally posted by Retro

Well, I dont complain about dying, BUT. If you can win using primary fire on any non splash damage funs, Kudos. It's the people who spam repeater alt-fire, fletheete alt-fire, and rockets at close range, then say they are the best ever, that just really need to calm down. There isn't much skill in spamming a gun that cant miss, and fires fast as hell.

 

Unfortunately, if they are on the top of the scoreboard, it doesn't matter HOW they got there. If you are poking around with a saber or weaker weapons while some other guy is getting a bunch of "easy kills" with "weapons that never miss" guess which one is the better player at the game at hand.

 

I'll give you a hint: not you.

 

Essobie

[Painreliever]

See the thing is though I don't go into a server spam with alt fire and they say I am the greatest, I just say GG. If I alt fire or shoot rockets at close range over and over its usually cause someone has me down to low health and I now that the second I try to attack with the saber I am struck down, or I will get gripped or force lightning to the face. If some guy wants to go and alt fire down a hall all day to kill people, sure that doesn't show any skill, but I am not gonna say nothing about him being a loser cause he wins. If a guy wants to camp a weapon and health ans shield I really don't care, he is gonna die sooner or later, not all maps are unbalanced so that he can do that with out having to move. I say let him play the way he wants and don't complain about it. The only complaint you'll ever hear me utter online is if someone is obviously cheating, or wants to accuse me of being lame and then doing exactly the things that they call me lame for. I reiterate, that people don't have to play on FFA Gun servers, you choose to join it, you get there and see guns, you can leave just as easy. If Raven needs to slow down secondary fire or make it less powerful, fine have at it, but until they do I will continue to use what is there to get the job done, whether it is killing groups, the dude about to kill me, or some guy running away with our flag.

 

Concerning this being a themed game...Yes it has lightsabers, yes it takes place in the Star Wars universe, but you don't see Boba Fett carrying a Lightsaber do you? No imperial ever wielded a lightsaber on screen apart from Vader(don't know that you can call Maul an imperial). I reiterate a point I made in my first post, that part of the mystique of being a Jedi is reflecting weapon fire, take that away and this becomes a game essentially like Rune, running around waving melee weapons with spells to make you more powerful from time to time. Raven gave us the ability to create different game types without force powers, without guns, you don't like one, go find a game that doesn't have them and don't complain about not being able to find one, you have bots. If they aren't good enough for you, deal with adversity and get better. This is not directed directly at Riven_BW just anyone who can't get over using weapons the way the were made.

[Razarblade]

I just have to agree with Riven on a certain point. Honor is something you either have for everything you do, or you don't have it at all. He also had another good point, the truely skilled individual doesn't advertise it and isn't cocky.

[VaderJM]

The blaster does rule, two or three even semi charged shots will take out most people.

 

A good gunner can usually take down a saberist based solely on the fact he can stand there and wait, and when the saberist charges and swings can just jump up and fire down on his head.

 

I have the utmost respect for the Star Wars universe, I love the lightsaber and now after practice my skill in the saber is about equal with my gunning.

 

Riven, I never said I was the most dangerous, or that I was "mentally" prepared or superior. 90% of things have to do with skill, the other 10 is mindgames and mental prepartion(sp), at least IMO. Also, I apologized for bringing my personal life into this, and stopped. You should too.

 

Some people don't understand that if someone got to the top by using tactics deemed "cheap" or "dirty" it doesn't diminish their victory, because they played smarter than everyone else, someone spamming alt fire repeater and golan into crowds? Well it was your fault for being in it, when you could've been doing the same thing as him. If you cling to honor in a game, you'll always be the loser.

[Forhekset]

Originally posted by madrebel

you ready to fight me yet pole smoker?

 

Heh, pole smoker, that's a good comeback for the "gunwhores" to use against the "l33t saborists" who call 'em names. In fact I like that better than "stickstroker", I think. No offense Pipe Smoke.

 

What is the deal with all this honor stuff anyway? I mean yeah it sucks if you're obviously offering to duel someone and they whip out the flechette gun and unload in your face, or something, but I wouldn't really call that being "dishonorable", I'd just call that being a prick. Really, it's just a video game.

 

Anyway, you guys can worry about honor all you want to, while I'm racking up splash damage kills firing into crowds of people who have their heads up their butts and aren't paying attention to the dude with the big gun.

[Retro]

I dont try to be or expect to be at the top of the list, and one idea I thought was good was

 

Anyway, I do see the point and reasoning behind the FFA servers. What I think that we really need is a modified FFA engine for formal saber duels - not a Duel server, but FFA rules, sabers only, MOTD explaining the rules/code of honor, and general player understanding.

 

It's not playing smart, or playing cheap. How many more people do you see using primary fire on the repeater instead of alt fire? Not very many, because it isn't as good, when the majority of people use 1 weapon, there is something not right about it, (excusing lightsabers as they are for the atmosphere, not for going around spamming one weapon.)

 

Of course, this is all in my own opinion so no one cares anyways...why do I even reply to posts...*shrug*.

[Spider AL]

Riven, I personally, think you should clarify your frankly blanket statements which seem to lump those who use guns to good advantage on guns FFA servers into the same, large drawer of "dishonour."

 

Personally I try to be the most honourable I can be. I value my honour. I don't swear, I don't gripe or whine. But people who want to be able to run around using only a lightsabre on FFA guns maps and expect not to be shot, I consider to be dishonourable in the extreme.

 

People like that wish to TAKE OVER a FFA server and make everyone play the way THEY want to play. It's not what the server was designed for, but people like them don't care how many good players they annoy, or how much fun they ruin.

 

I've complimented players on the skill they've used to kill me... And two minutes later, they're trying to vote me off, calling me a "cheeting gunwh0re!!11" That's dishonour. I've shot a rocket into a group of duelling people... but that's the game. It's not a duel server, it's not meant to be a duel server, and if people want to duel, they can wait their turn and CHALLENGE each other to a duel.

 

And another thing! If I'm two points away from making the score limit, I resent people expecting me to duel them 1 on 1. If I were to duel them, I'd lose the game while some other fellow runs his way to victory past me. The duel option has to be accepted voluntarily by the challenged person! People who scream insults at someone who elects NOT to duel them, are dishonourable.

 

It's not whether you carry a sabre, or a sabre AND a rifle that makes you honourable or dishonourable, it's what you are like as a PERSON. I have no time for gunners OR saberists who crow over their victims, or gunners OR saberists who boast about their skills. I take pride in my sabreing. I frequently go to duel sabres only games. But in FFA, I use any and all weapons! People who do so should never be penalised or villified. FFA means "free-for-all," not "sabres-only-duels." It's that simple.

 

(Edit)

 

What I think that we really need is a modified FFA engine for formal saber duels - not a Duel server, but FFA rules, sabers only

 

If I'm not much mistaken, this is describing Sabres FFA. As far as I'm aware, such servers exist, and are as easy to set up as ticking a checkbox. Just goes to show, a lot of people who rant at gunners in FFA simply haven't looked for another server. They want to jump into the first server they see with a low ping, and have it play the game THEY want. Doesn't work that way. You must search for a server that suits you, not expect every server to suit you.

 

(/Edit)

[Painreliever]

DING DING DING! We have a winner! Spider AL ht the nail on the head. Well said.

[Orangina_Rouge]

I won t continue to argue with some ppl wich implicitly ( or explicitly ) insults others or think that they hold the truth about this game ( this truth being guns owns this game .....ROFLMAO )

 

Just some facts about myself using saber......No braggin:

 

-I allways finish in the third top players on FFA servers

-Every gun user i cross die 9/10 times

-Yes guns are sometimes useful but mainly against unskilled saberists ....which means a lot of ppl actually ( every time i use a gun i m surprised how much ppl are so much defenceless against them whereas i have mostly no problems with them )

 

Those are just to say that the saber is not a knife like some ppl would like to convince us

 

 

I don t worry about this game , it is new and people will learn how to efficiently use Saber and force vs guns ( having played JK 1 and a lot of other FPS helped me to be efficient fastly ) ....Then it will be truely balanced on servers : Guns will not be useless but not so hot too

[Painreliever]

Whether the information in your post is fact or an over inflated view of your own abilities I am not here to argue, in fact I think the real point that many people have concerning this issue is not that sabers or guns are better, but that there are some people who expect others to play the game according to their rules and those people are mainly those who advocate the use of sabers over guns in keeping with the theme of Star Wars. If you can own me with a saber and the force, more power to you, but don't condemn me if I own you with primary or alt fire on any of my weapons. Whether you think you can own me with your saber or not is moot, it is merely part of the game, its called winning. Whining is what happens when a person's over-inflated view of their own skill doesn't equal the score at the end of the match.