Am i the only person that loves the puzzles?

[Tek]

they are so fun to figure out!, especialy when you finnaly get it, They should make a expansion pack with just puzzles every other room!

 

 

so far i love the jedi training level the most because of the puzzles

[QuadHelix]

You love the puzzles, huh? Well apparently you're not at the doomgiver comms array yet. Jeez that puzzle was annoying....

[[sico]]

i despise the puzzles when i'm doing but after ive done em i like them

[Expandable]

The mixture of puzzles and action was just great - I loved it! However, a puzzle in every room would become boring after a while.

 

The Doomgiver puzzle was easy. I don't know why, there were other puzzels which caused me a headache, but the Doomgiver sensor/communications array wasn't one of them!

[Trienco]

the comm-array wasnt difficult, but just about the most stupid thing i've ever seen in a game. all the time i was thinking 'hellooooo, dont the imperials have to operate this thing too??'

 

honestly, something like that would be about exactly ONE console somewhere. like that it's like having the keys of your keyboard spread around your whole block. i know there's a trade off between realistiv level design and playability, but there would have been a million ways to make a sensible puzzle instead of a bottomless room with isolated small chambers and ONE symbol per console. do they have special 'comm-jedi' to jump around and operate them? or jet packs? and how did the enemies you meet in some rooms even get there?

 

i know it's old and maybe too much adventure-style, but why not only get the coordinates of the squadron (instead of luke telling you the symbols you have to enter on a foreign enemy ship)? let them find a manual to translate them into symbols in the junior comm officers quarters and maybe a password for the console in a hidden place in the senior officers quarters or close to the console in a locked locker (with the officer having the key to it).

only my opinion but i would prefer puzzles like that over spreading a simple function across the whole level without it making any sense inside the game world.

[Zagadka]

If I liked puzzles that involve walking around clicking on things that much, I would be playing Myst...

 

It is possible to make a good FPS/action puzzle. There are several of them in JK2 and other games... there are also many horrible ones in JK2 (Comm array being the primary one. I mean, WHAT THE HELL was going through their minds? A simple, incredibly annoying time consumer of a "puzzle" that made absolutely no sense whatsoever in the game world. NONE. ABSOLUTELY NONE).

 

What I liked about JK1 level design were things like the marketplace scene... None of that, here.

[Mustang76]

Hehe I was thinking the same thing with the comm array about the imperials operating it. Probably why it was off in the first place, nobody could EVER get it started.

 

The Imperial Comm Array brought to you by Bastard Architechtural Firms.

[QuadHelix]

Originally posted by Expandable

The Doomgiver puzzle was easy. I don't know why, there were other puzzels which caused me a headache, but the Doomgiver sensor/communications array wasn't one of them!

 

I didn't say it was tough to figure out. That was easy. What annoyed me was a) the jumping (and missing a ledge again) and b) the realism, as has been stated by a couple of other ppl here.

[patchx]

i dont think you could really call them puzzles

they were just time wasters

did it really take anyone that much thought to realize that u had to put the code that was written in your datapad in the comm array?

 

no

it was just the time spent actually doing it

 

and the only jedi training "puzzles" that were good were the speed/jump ones

the other ones were stoopid

 

-patch

[Scrobes]

I thought the puzzles were okay. Admittedly, a couple were very odd in that they presented no discernible logic behind the solution. One being where you have the room with the platform in the middle, the water that hurts you, and two windows that you can look through but not climb through, and you have to shoot the crate to blow up the switch and get the pathway to go across. Ultimately you just need to be able to recognise patterns, IMO. A lot of the stuff in the game is based on timings, durations, cycles, etc.

 

They were good in some ways because they promoted some lateral thinking, but a good majority were ones where you spent a fair bit of time going through all the areas double checking stuff, and then finally stumbling on the solution.

 

I liked the puzzles involving the use of the R2 units or the mouse droids. Very amusing.

[manickat]

Probably one of the biggest appeals this game has for me is it's continuity in the Star Wars universe. I mean, it's a fun game, but I don't know how interested I would have been in it to begin with if it wasn't Star Wars.

 

I think the "puzzles" should belong in that universe. A lot of the puzzles in this don't. The comm puzzle and the room with the blocks that rise out of the floor are silly and don't make any sense. The droid "puzzles" on the other hand were brilliant. They were fun, different, and believable (and I didn't expect them).

 

I don't mind hunting for keys, locked doors are realistic. I don't mind jumping from platform to platform over bottomless pits if it makes sense (i.e. Bespin vs. the comm room).

 

I wouldn't make a pretentious claim that I could do JKO better than Raven. It's a great game and it shows a lot of work went into it, but sometimes I have to wonder what (or if) they were thinking with this level design. I think I at least could design levels that made sense in Star Wars. Maybe they just rushed it???

[thrEEpaGe]

Originally posted by QuadHelix

You love the puzzles, huh? Well apparently you're not at the doomgiver comms array yet. Jeez that puzzle was annoying....

 

i thought that hte comm array was quite easy actually....the right console was sort of obvious the way that the put the bridges..and jumping wasnt exactly rocket science =)

[H-street]

Personally

 

 

the puzzle gave me that sense of adventure.. just running and gunning through levels is fine.. for a while.. but having the puzzles there, for me at least, allowed to feel like i was actually trying to accomplish a goal.. I thought 99% of the puzzles ( not finished yet) felt exactly like JK1.. which is a good thing IMHO.

[Larn]

 

Normally I despise puzzles, particularly jumping puzzles. When I read the reveiws of JO my heart sank, thinking I would hate the game.

 

I got a pleasant suprise.

 

To my great shock, I actually *like* the puzzles. I can't explain it. I think knowing that there were these sort of puzzles in the first place softened me up a bit, but I like the break from the "kill the enemy" routine.

 

Colour me confused.

 

Larn

 

http://www.starwarz.com/swlegacy/

[manickat]

Some of them are really really good (esp the droids). Gives you a chance to rest between battles, listen to the slow music. I would have liked to seen one or two where you had to use the detonators (I haven't even used one yet!), maybe cause some massive explosions or distractions.

 

Guess I just wish some of the level design was more realistic. Certainly hasn't stopped me from enjoying the game, though...

[Lnt. Kechtt]

Originally posted by manickat

Some of them are really really good (esp the droids). Gives you a chance to rest between battles, listen to the slow music.

 

I agree with manickat here. The puzzles were a welcome break from the fighting. Heck, sometimes the fighting was a puzzle to me! I just don't see what it is with some of you guys that can't stand them though. I know that they may be time comsuming, but if you take them away all you have is Wolfinstien, as a friend of mine said. The puzzels teach you to use your skills and powers more affectivly. You can't honestly tell me that your landing abilites didn't get better after the com array? Another thing. If this game were realistic, you would only be able to carry, say, you're pistol, one heavy weapon of some sort, your sabre, and maybe one or two bacta. The game isn't made to me life, it's made to be a game. I find it interesting how people are making games so much more realistic and for the most part people play them to get away from realitiy. Games must make sense, but not all the time. That's why they're called "games." The puzzles are part of the game. If you don't like them you could always play Harts, or Doom.

[manickat]

Kechtt, you're right about turning it into a RTCW. I thought about an "enemy only" SP mod, but I think it would get old somewhere along the line. Gotta have something besides fighting.

 

About realism, just so you know I'm not a stickler about this, because you're right, it's just a game, but I play JKO to get into Star Wars. Not everything in the game needs be realistic, but puzzles like the blocks that rise out of the floor take me out of the "suspension of disbelief" that the rest of the game gives me. Kind of "brings me back into reality" so to speak.

 

I think they could have done better to leave things like that out, the comm array could have been reworked a little to make it make more sense in the game. It kind of pokes the Star Wars feel in the eye, like having enemies that don't belong in the game ... I mean, the game has to be about something, right? You can't have guys running around with AK-47s in here, right?

 

In any other game I wouldn't mind the silly puzzles, but hey, this is Star Wars. And I'm probably just 50% of the fan some of these people are.

[Rancor]

I can't figure out what people have against the "training room", the one with the blocks that can be moved up and down to create different configurations. It's fairly obvious that that's what the room is.

 

Isn't that area completely optional anyway?

[manickat]

A training room ... hmmm ... observation points, configurable floor ... hadn't thought of that ... works for me.

[Emon]

I loved the puzzles. Many people have this misconception that puzzle = find the key to open the door. The doomgiver array puzzle was easy, all you do is hit the right button according to the code in your objectives list. Not that hard...

 

It also ticks me off how people say the puzzels in DF were good but these aren't, since the DF puzzels were similar, if not harder. Remember the Imperial Vault puzzle or the Executor end puzzle? Those were some of the hardest puzzles in history, even JK2 didn't have ones THAT frustrating.

[Seyvern]

I have a mixed mind about the puzzles. Some i really liked because they fit the story, some I didnt because they were out of place and just felt stupid.

 

For example - the puzzles in the jedi training ground - ok those were cool, they were training, they WERENT out of place.

 

on the other hand, the comms array and the room with the moveable floors? I mean really- ya the puzzles were basically the same difficulty, but while playing hte game I _Dont_ want ot be thinking, ' how the hell do the imperials use their own comm array' and thats exactly what I thought when I saw that room. Not to mention the cheezy helpful 'note to self' comment Kyle says ~ (something like- Hrm, looks like a moveable array - no sh*t Sherlock).

 

Basically, I dont want to be really going along grooving hte game.

Thinking, wow this looks just like a starwars movie.

Dude this guy moves just like Qui Gin in Ep. I.

Christ, I just cut 4 stormtroopers in half.

etc.

Wow I AM a Jedi!

 

and then..

walk into the next room.

and think..

 

Christ, how would the imperials use this thing?!?!

 

Thats called ruining the suspension of disbelief, and it sucks. And its my _only_ problem with teh game.

 

 

As a counter example, look at one of my other favorite FPS/RPG esque games, System Shock II. That game was chock full of puzzles, but you never thought to yourself, how the hell did the crew of the Von Braun use this thing.

 

If you needed to find a keycard to open a restricted area, you had to go find the keycard, off the dead guy, etc..

.. or (spoiler)

the part on deck 5 where the keycode to the hastily built communications area was hidden in the display screens around the habitation deck so the relatively mindless worms couldnt figure it out. It made sense. It was written into the story well.

 

And to be honest, it wouldn't have taken much work on raven's part to do that with the comms array.

 

For example, the section of the asteroid base (more spoilers) where you are trying to traverse the large 'bottomless pit' area leading to the main reactor. Ok, fine, large bottomless pit areas are not an ususual thing for starwars - all the movies have em (death star I and II, cloud city, corsucant) - good enough. And what do they have? an Imperial dude sitting in his little hovercar which takes him from side A to side B of the bottomless pit. And 1/4 of the way across the imps try to kill you by destroying the car. Ok! Thats internally consistant. The imperials use shuttle cars to cross the gap- and they try to ambush you by getting you on the shuttle car and blowing it apart. And you, being the badass jedi you are, get away. Shades of Episode 1! Thats good level design.

 

(few more spoilers)

Comms Array, room with the pop up floors, chasing Desann at the end, Area with the forcefield floors in the customs dock, shoot the crate in the room with the water, etc. BAD level design

 

-Seyvern

[ThreshRPG]

I like some of the puzzles, but most of the jumping puzzles are absolute CRAP. Thank god for noclip, or this game would have died on the vine.

 

I loved the droid puzzles. I liked a lot of the sneak around puzzles. I liked some of the jumping puzzles where it did not require insanely perfect jumps and where failure did not equal death and reload.

 

That comm array was an atrocity. What kind of blithering idiot would develop a comm array that was so labor intensive. As someone mentioned, it would be like a computer keyboard with each key located in a different person's house in your neighborhood. Ridiculous.

 

Further, how would the bad guys even operate it? Do they have legions of jedi JUST to operate their telephone?

 

And how did the non-jedi bad guys get into those rooms? Was the ship built around them?

 

That was one of the most idiotic puzzles I have ever seen in a game (though I never played Myst, so perhaps there are worse ones ).