Saber combat too erratic?

[Khaaan]

The moment I first joined a JK2 MP game I thought "man, this whole saber fighting is just button mashing". I mean come on, don't you think it's a bit uncoordinated most of the time. If you make those special moves (backstab, wall move etc.) you get hacked down most of the time, because you need to think too long about the button combos. And I typically get most kills if I just use the heavy stance and swing away randomly at the opponents.

 

Why isn't there a defend and attack button so that I can decide at least a bit what I want to do. Instead you can either stand around defending and eventually dying or slashing and hacking like an idiot until someone makes a lucky hit (either you or him/them).

 

But please, if I am utterly wrong here and just missing the way to control the saber combat, please please tell me how to make a controlled, targeted hit on a jumping and swerving opponent!

 

BTW don't you think force push in those platform levels is lame?

[Zek]

Practice, practice and more practice. It's not random in the slightest, you just have to memorize the different moves(it's very easy to use the one you want when you want if you know what they all do) and learn how to use them. I can beat the random saber swingers 95% of the time.

[Creston]

Originally posted by Khaaan

And I typically get most kills if I just use the heavy stance and swing away randomly at the opponents.

 

 

Which is what everybody else on virtually ever server does, because MP sabercombat is just crap. It has no control, it's absurdly slow and the swings make no sense whatsoever.

 

SP saber combat is beautiful. Work of art.

MP saber combat, why'd they bother? If they already HAD the single player combat??

 

Creston

[Zek]

People who use nothing but heavy swings are even easier to beat(especially the ones who only use the deathblow move). In a force server, you can push or saber throw them while they're swinging. Otherwise, just step to the side and slash them during the rather noticable recovery time.

 

The only thing that irritates me about heavy is when both people are using it in a duel server; they spend maybe 10% of the round within 5 feet of eachother and it really gets old.

[ps2maddenman]

When I join a server with alot of button mashers I use the special moves and most of all push them when they try to swing at me knocking them on the floor giving me an easy floor kill, also run up to them and jump off of them, kinda like how you do on the walls and you take off 20 health each time, if you develop these skills you will be in the top point ranking every single time................if you see my online my name there is Degobah Barbie, I do really well against the button mashers.

 

l8r

[ArtifeX]

If you're swinging randomly, chances are you're not the top score on the server. I was in a team saber-only FFA match the other day and had a frag count that was 50% higher than anyone else.

 

Just concentrate on learning the medium or strong style moves and forget the blue style--it's pathetic.

 

Make sure to use your force powers wisely. If you ignore their use then you're missing out on many tactics that can pump up your frag count (pushing someone off a ledge being only one of those. players who use that a lot probably don't know how to do anything else, so just avoid pits, turn on absorb before you see them, drain them or use one of the other myriad techniques).

 

just wading into a grand melee swinging your strong-stance saber to and fro will get you lucky hits, but isn't going to help you against an experienced player--he'll just wait for an opening and cut you in half.

[Zek]

I agree that the light stance is essentially useless; has anyone found a valid tactic for it that can beat an experienced player? The only thing it seems good for is random swinging with its unlimited chains. It's virtually impossible to get next to someone long enough to hit them more than once without endangering yourself, and with the light stance that means you won't be doing much damage.

[Prime]

Actually, I find that the less button mashing I do, the better I am. Basically, if you are defensive and have a good saber defense rating, you can block most saber attacks. The problem with button mashing is that it leaves you open to counter attacks. So I just wait until my opponent

swings, and then I move in to hit him when he's vulnerable. This is also a great time to use Push to knock him down. Players who use a little defense are the hardest to beat. That's my experience anyway.

[ryudom]

i haven't meet any really good saber fighters yet, and i'd like to get whooped like a million to nothing to prove that people can get amazing at it

[Pvt_Dancer]

I agree. Button mashers will lose 90% of the time if you just stand back and wait patiently for their random swing to open their defenses up.

 

I don't think that MP sabre combat is that bad, actually. I think the automatic blocking is weaker than SP. Wish a little more of that parrying was left in, however, the moves are essentially the same.

 

I think light stance is good if you are A: trying to prolong an excellent sabre battle or B: Humiliate someone using strong stance.

[Silent Wolf]

my advice to you, ive met plenty of amazing saberist.

 

 

Try the ffa saber only servers, no force, usually nothing but the bet on there.

[Sontarian]

The game is amazing, but the saber duel is very bad.It looks god, I mean , saber duels are like movie but the best sword simulation I ve everseen was SEVERANCE:BLADE OF DARKNESS, I am sure that some oy you guys played that amazing sword simulation game.This game has tons of moves,special attacks and death attack made by motion capture techni but the best thing in this game was an option that toggles you face to face to an opponent and blocking was not automatic.You had to watch your enemy well and attack when he is guardless.I think that had to be the same in JK2.The only atutomatic block had to be reflecting blasters.

 

Also there had to be a STAMINA bar for the idiots that only press the attack button like mad dog to run them out of stamina and remain them guardless.

 

These are my opinions and I hope that someone can make a mod for these.

[BIGBrother]

I find myself using light stance at least 50% of the time.

 

Combine it's combos with wallflips and rolls and you can stay mobile without straying too far from your opponent.

The mobility makes you a harder target for a strong stance user to land a good hit on and it provides many more angles of attack than just head-on.

 

It's not ideal all the time, I'd certainly take strong if I knew I was fighting a more skilled than average sabre user (right before I get sliced and diced ) but light certainly has it's place.

[MrCrusher]

Also there had to be a STAMINA bar for the idiots that only press the attack button like mad dog to run them out of stamina and remain them guardless.

 

Now thats an Excellent idea. Attacks would drain force power in relation to how powerful the attack is. Heavy stance drains the most, medium stance would drain less, and blue stance the least.

 

If you used an attack that needed more force power than available then that attack would only do a proportional amount of damage, relative to whats available in the force pool.

 

This would certianly slow down button mashers, and heavy stance only fighting.

 

It might also help relieve the bunny hop syndrome.....

 

This would make an excellent MOD.

 

Someone MOD this!

 

[Jiro Kage]

I think one of the problems with saber combat has to do with latency that you find on MP servers. If you run at an enemy who is running at you and attempt to pass with a horizontal slash, most of the time it will miss - or seem to strike well after they have passed you. I play on a server where I have a 30-40 ping and I still notice this. If only there was some way to fix it so that getting hit with ANY part of the saber did the damage I think it would be a lot better.

 

Another thing that stinks is being hit with a saber AFTER the move has finished. In addition, getting hit with a saber well after the fact is rather annoying also.

[Downfaul]

I did quite well last night using all three stances depending on the situation.

If I knew my opponent was using heavy, i would too. Better chance to block that heavy swing if I'm not swinging. Never use it vs headless chickens.

The quick style thrust (crouch+forward+attack) did a surprising number of kills. I guess it must do a hella lot of damage.

I'd use the normal style for everything else.

 

Changing styles in the middle of a fight is very advantageous.

 

I play that SP "ladder" map a lot. I love it sooo much. It gets me into such a great mood to go play MP.

[Chanke4252]

The only reason I die to these people sometimes is because of lag. Lag usually keeps me from killing them after I knock them down etc. However, I always end up in the top 5.

[Mortoplus]

i don't play randomly at all, my favorite move is to kick them, all you need to do is a backflip like you can do off walls, but just do it on the apponent, quite effective if you ask me, better than push, sometimes i will pull them into me then do it. blue stance hasn't appeared to be any different than yellow, accept for the fact that it does minimum damage...

[toolboi]

Random button mashers are like people who just randomly swing swords in real life, they die to some one who is in control.

 

I agreed that the combat was shallow at first, but once you get into it its amazingly complex (in SP at least, but MP is pretty good).

 

I agree that the light stance is essentially useless; has anyone found a valid tactic for it that can beat an experienced player?

 

I have a rant about this in the feedback section. Blue is a good stance, but its slower than yellow for basic moves and slashes.

 

I think one of the problems with saber combat has to do with latency that you find on MP servers. If you run at an enemy who is running at you and attempt to pass with a horizontal slash, most of the time it will miss - or seem to strike well after they have passed you. I play on a server where I have a 30-40 ping and I still notice this.

 

I have a rant aboput this too, and Ive found out that its not latency but something wacky in the hit detection (any one remember when CS had wacky hit detection?). Ive had this "lag" happen to me in bot matches. However it is this that gives red an advantage in MP. If you never know whats going to hit you you dont want to go running in if theres a possibillity of getting one hit killed.

[aletoledo]

as much as I enjoy encoporating guns into the game in a ffa...I tend to spend 50% of my time at least on duel servers. half of that is on no force servers.

 

I have to say that there is a bit of a science to dueling, there is also a bit of random luck to it and then there is the lag factor.

adding in force really changes the whole game, so speaking solely about saber combat, you really need to play a NF duel server then.

 

the vast majority (98%) play the game by jockeying for a position and then swinging away, no matter what stance they are in. people seem to think they are so great duelist because they hit the button faster then their opponet, when in fact they were just trading random blows and they were just more lucky with a faster ping.

 

on the other hand, there is a method to the madness, timing is important and learning it is difficult. the game has only been out a short time, so for a consistent strategy, its a bit premature I'd say to expect anyone to have mastered every aspect. yet as it stands right now, a few duelist I can think of, can consistently take out random flailers and even against other experienced duelist can still stay on top of the charts time and again....not something that can happen when everything is completely random.

[Jiro Kage]

Toolboi: Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. The hit boxes do seem a bit skewed, especially with movement. And CS is still wacky with hit detection, but its a lame game as is these days ;]

 

I think it has to do with the swinging portion when two are in the swinging process and they come near each other. It's almost as if the sabers clash but do not produce the block effect, with the sparks and all. Pretty strange. Also notice how almost every hit seems to register as a lower body hit? What I mean is check when you hit someone, and you will notice that it always seems to show the strike at the lower portion of their body. Sure, you see some head and body strikes at times, but it's weird that your saber can be an upward slash - and show a hit at their FEET.

 

I'd like to see the hit detection refined a bit, that is for sure.

[enDless_Deliriu]

Light stance has a use btw. I use it quite often.

 

Mostly what it's good for is for getting a surprise attack in. Just quickly switch to light in mid flip, land, and do the thrust. Usually you can catch the person off guard.

 

It's also very good at dealing with people with speed on. The thrust is a quick move and does more damage than your average light or medium stance swing. Basically, if you are going to use light stance, you have to show a lot more patience, and be prepared to basically whittle your opponent down instead of hacking them down.

 

More than once using light has saved my life, simply because while it's almost as slow as medium, it is still faster and has less recovery time on moves.

 

Basically the moral: If you're using light stance, do NOT expect a quick kill. Just slowly cut your opponent down to size.

[freonsmurf]

couple of things.

 

to really see the difference in SP vs MP combat, use g_saberautoaim 0

use that in single player and you can consistently do certain attacks and combos. ie the backstab you have to press back.

 

Now take the exact same kyle to MP and the press the swing button 3 times you will get a different swing 50% of the time.

 

There are some bugs in mp.

Heavy jump lance-blade stays in ground, but still does damage if a player gets close.

Collision-This can be seen in mp and sp, sometimes you can actually get to close to somebody and miss completely.

 

with all that in mind, dueling is still fun. the light side owns all, and hopefully these issues will be fixed in patch.

[Khaaan]

Thanks, these posts give me hope that saber fighting is not as random as I was thinking. I also think to have detected the main problem:

Feedback - or lack of it. You just don't really see if or where you have hit. Therefore you can't learn what swing/timing is right.

 

There should really be a training mode with a bot that's not always just running backward (seems to be the standard bot technique).

 

BTW is defence on if you walk or strafe? (with "defence on" I mean can you block). For if not, then you would normally never ever be able to defend because nobody ever stands still.

[SkullFighter]

I spent the first few weeks playing Duel no force servers to learn the way of the saber. There are plenty of good saber players with unique fighting styles. Spend some time on these servers honing your saber skills then make the fray into other servers. It has made me and infinitely better player.