TechTV Rates the game....... 40%????

[ps2maddenman]

TechTV

 

(Italics Mine)

 

"There's been a disturbance in the Force, and it's this game. The game is flawed on so many levels (and in so many ways), that its occasional glimpses of greatness almost get lost in the Bespin Clouds."

 

WTF? I am at a loss at that statement, I feel like Navaros wrote it.

 

"Had the rest of "Jedi Knight II" lived up to the presentation, this would have easily been one of the best games of the year. Regrettably, the level design seems to have succumbed to the Dark Side. To say "Jedi Knight II" feels incredibly rushed would be an understatement. The whole game felt more like a Jedi combat simulation or a never-ending series of gauntlet runs. Mixing insane combat situations with bizarre jumping puzzles (inevitably involving crates of one sort or another), it's almost as if these maps were designed by Mario fans, not "Star Wars" aficionados. "

 

WTF?? Hmmm, I take it this reviewer didn't like Jedi Knight 1 either, I took a long time to beat this game, and it didn't feel rushed one bit to me....

 

""Jedi Knight II" is full of illogical and usually frustrating situations. Its first problem is that for the first four levels, Kyle is just a normal non-Jedi merc, stuck in storm trooper infested bases. Unlike the original "Dark Forces," however, these levels lack any distinctive flair, making the game feel like a "Quake III"/"Star Wars" mod, instead of a stand-alone product. Unfortunately, as much fun as it is to run around and hack up troopers with a lightsaber, not to mention the joys of Force powers, the problems with the game's design just get worse. "

 

WTF??? ...."illogical and usually frustrating situations", yet he fails to mention just one of these "illogical and usually frustrating situations." I don't consider myself a genius, and I didn't have any problems figuring out the puzzles.

 

"But Kyle's powers aside, the levels just make no sense. The movies proved that the Empire is intent on providing the most inanely unsafe work environments in the universe, and Raven seems to have taken that to heart. There are enemies in places where no one short of a Jedi could reach -- like on huge killer power conduits right in the middle of a ship -- for no apparent reason, and other cheap, amateurish map-design elements.

 

WTF???? Ummmm, Hello, this is the Star Wars universe, it is SPACE FANTASY, not real life...

 

For example, right after you finally get the lightsaber, the game sticks you in a huge, fantastic-looking "Star Wars" city, which is great, except for the fact that it's almost completely filled with snipers who have one-hit kill weapons that can't be deflected by the lightsaber. To make matters worse, through the whole game, aside from the occasional droid, there are absolutely no bystanders or noncombatants at all. You'll occasionally have artificial intelligence (AI) teammates (with terrible AI, making them next to useless), but the game is focused on throwing bad guys at you, and it almost ruins the "Star Wars" atmosphere. "

 

WTF????? I wonder if this reviewer was expecting Everquest or something, he contradicts himself over and over......the game is focused on throwing bad guys at you <----DUH! I am glad Raven took this approach instead of throwing good guys at me. I let Luke kill off the reborn by himself, so I really don't know about this so called "terrible AI"

 

"In the movies, there were always things going on in the background, always civilians around in the cities and towns. Yet here, when you walk into a crowded bar, everyone starts attacking you. Later in the game, the designers decided to throw in a stealth level just for kicks, with the excuse that there were too many enemies for Kyle to deal with -- despite that fact that he had probably killed more troopers at once in a hallway a few minutes before. As usual, stealth works poorly with the "Quake" engine, and this segment just felt tacked on. "

 

WTF?????? First of all this is not a movie, it is a game, secondly the stealth level was excellent.

 

"For all the problems and bouts with juvenile level design, occasionally the old Raven style shines through, and the parts that work in "Jedi Knight II" work tremendously well. Some of the battles are especially engaging, some of the level design is fascinating, saber fighting is visually spectacular, and the solid story line helps keep you playing despite irate bouts of frustration. But the good parts of "Jedi Outcast" are fleeting in the face of so much that's done badly, and all but the most devoted "Star Wars" fans will have a lot of trouble trying to overlook these flaws. "

 

WTF??????? "Irate bouts of frustration".....ok, now I get it, this review makes perfect sense now, the reviewer totally sucks at FPS, that's all he had to say, but noooooo, you have to read the entire review to get to that part....sigh

 

 

 

Final thoughts: Stay off the crack TechTV, That had to be the single most horrible review I have ever read for any game ever, seriously. Now I know why I never watch this show...TechTV is full of idiots.....

 

40% my ***.

[Bacon00]

I already started a post about this... it's a ways down, but you can read everyone's comments on it if you'd like.

[ps2maddenman]

Hmm, I scrolled back 5 pages and didn't see anything on it, was the thread maybe removed due to someone's language/spamming ??

[Emon]

That's because that reviewer is a total ****ing moron. He has no base to his conclusions, he just doesn't like Star Wars or Dark Forces, or both.

 

That "distinctive flare from Dark Forces" REALLY bothered me. Dark Forces was a bunch of boxes with door ways! WTF is he talking about! In the first level, the entire outdoor canyon area is a giant cube of gray rock! All ONE texture! It's like impossible to find your way around in that level. The most distinction was those stupid gray rock sprites lying on the ground that looked more like gray baseballs...

 

I like how in the end he says some of the level design is really good, the saber combat is really excellent and overall it's a great game, but gives it a 40% and contradicts himself in every other paragraph before that.

 

 

This guy's additude is, "I suck at FPS games, therefor ones that I am not god at suck in every maner. I'm a total ****ing moron and I base my opinions off of nothing, and I make an ass out of myself ALL the time, because I suck at FPSs!"

[Tozier]

I just read the actual article... that moron bashed the multiplayer! I'm not going to quote but you can see the link in the post above mine. "level design unimaginative" my @$$. "unless you don't want to have saber bouts with stormtroopers and aliens" HELLO @$$ face! Thet's the whole point!. Just read the link.

[Swamp]

i doubt that everyone here who plays it is a star wars fanatic ... hell, i havn't even watched the movies and i love the game ..

 

 

i am fine with someone not likeing the game but his review kind of makes no sense ... he talks about how dumb the levels are, and then at the end he comments on how they are good?

 

 

 

o well, hes an idiot, problem solved

[Desslock]

I was extremely surprised at the review myself. Both reviews seem similar so theres no point in summarizing the one I saw on the TV... 2 out of 5... 40%

[Pvt_Dancer]

You'll occasionally have artificial intelligence (AI) teammates (with terrible AI, making them next to useless)

 

But you're the HERO which means... YOU DO THE WORK! In a fire fight in SW there is Han and a thousand guys and the only one that will hit anything important is HAN.... thats the way being a hero works!? Does he want the rebels following him around to actually do the fighting for him?

 

"In the movies, there were always things going on in the background, always civilians around in the cities and towns. Yet here, when you walk into a crowded bar, everyone starts attacking you.

 

This is actually an ok point. It would have been kind of neat (and would have created a more absorbing world) for there to be other people in Nar Shaada or Bespin that were innocents and not part of the general scum. People just walking about that you had to avoid killing. Or that would say funny things (instead of the annoying anger-causing comments the neutrals in JK1 had to say... 'Get out of my way!" "Leave me alone!") behind their store counters and such.

 

As usual, stealth works poorly with the "Quake" engine,

 

This guy ever play Urban Terror? Stealth works fine.

 

and all but the most devoted "Star Wars" fans will have a lot of trouble trying to overlook these flaws. "

 

I think the people on these forums prove this wrong. Most of them are in love with it and they range from just gamers to die hards from what I can see.

[Muzzle]

I agree with his assessments on the single player game. The huge, hanging in mid-air comm array was the most ridiculous thing I'd seen in my life. Apparently the Empire outfits its technicians with rocket packs for whenever their ships need to communicate. The lack of any citizens made Nar Shaddaa feel fake. The levels before Bespin were pure tedium.

 

Now, I'd not give it a 40% for that. Once the game put you in a place where you could actually use your saber and force powers and had jedi to slash, it was pure fun. Multiplayer's a blast. But that doesn't mean I'm blind to the game's faults, it has them.

[ps2maddenman]

I'm not saying this game is a 100%, but come on, a 40%, the reason I posted this review was to show everyone how reviewers can contradict themselves in their own review repeatedly.

[Rogerwilco2002]

I thought nothing in that review was really any good. It isn't the best game I have ever played but it isn't only 40%. I have never liked TechTV because it is a newbie station with newbie people. They are newbies because they dont know what they are talking about or doing. I posted a comment on that thing at the bottom that shares all my thoughts. Hopefully all the bad comments will prevent any reviews like this to take place ever again.

[Scarlet Widow]

i completly agree with the reviewer myself...

 

i'd give it higher than 40% though, more like 75%

[Pvt_Dancer]

When I saw the communications array I also thought... this isn't a very efficient way to dial a phone... but I still had fun doing that part. There were a couple of things like the above that could have been a little more realistic... challenging in a different way but I would never give this game a 40%.

 

I would have liked to see them do something that wasn't a throw this switch and then go here... in example maybe you have to find a certain power cell to charge something up and then find out you need an access key from some guy then you have to come back again to change the communications array on a regular panel. Or maybe you would need his handprint on the panel... force him to walk in front of you (like when you open the bay doors with that other guy). Something like that... more than just finding the right button. More objectivey stuff.

[hughJ]

Original Thread

 

my response to review:

 

"the review is probably closer to reality than most of the reviews that are giving it 90+%...

 

with the ability to have superior graphics, sound, level design, overall game complexity, how on earth can you wind up having a game that is LESS atmospheric and immersive than past DF games?

 

You do it by having extremely linear level planning, 3D-platformer gameplay, and perhaps not a very involving plot (which tends to make the hit-switch-open-door puzzles seem oddly brainless)...

 

I can deal with jumping puzzles to the extent that JK2 has them... but when you have cities as large as bespin or nar, your eyes show you a huge map, yet your brain still feels the claustrophobia.. any kind of atmosphere originally experienced by you during the first 30 seconds of playing a new level is slowly worn away in the following minutes as you realize just how simple and linear the path is to be taken.."

 

"the best games are good because of intelligent game design, smart level planning, involving gameplay, atmospheric tension and feeling, and deep gameplay that allows for a relatively different experience for every user who plays the game... can you honestly tell me that there is a unique difference of experience for every user who plays JK2 single player? Some people may enjoy the game more than others, but the actual path and experience from the beginning to the end of the game is virtually *identical* for every single person who plays the game due to the level+game planning...

 

if you play any of the quality single player FPSs out there and use a walkthrough, you are *definitely* losing something of the experience - as many of the things you find are due to exploring and discovering them for yourself.. the things that you don't need to progress in the level are lost by using a walkthrough, and the game goes from becoming a much more open-ended unique experience, to a more linear experience like JK2...

 

if you play JK2 with a walk through, not much (if any) of the experience is lost... the levels are designed to lead you where you need to go and nothing more, doors that would normally lead to unnecessary paths to other parts of a base are simply painted onto the walls and are seemingly 'locked'... the doors that can be opened, *need* to be opened so that you can progress further..."

[King of Blades]

I agree with the reviewer on several points, especially the stealth level IT FELT TACKED ON; and there werent even that many troopers...

 

I especially disliked the sporadic force power effectiveness, sometimes you can pull an object out or push a button and other times you cant.

 

And Nar Shadaa was a horrible level, it was nothing other than constant quicksaves as you would get zapped by a sniper somewhere on a ledge as you walked near a window or out the door.

 

I do like the game, but it has its' flaws.

 

Ill give the mic back to the zealots now.

[OOO]

I agree with allot of what the reviewer said. Though I wouldn't give it score of 40%, I wouldn't go much higher then 60%. As it stands if I wasn't enjoying the multiplay so much, I would have shelved the game right after I beat it. I don't think I'll be able to manage a second run through the game, if only because of the ns_streets level.

 

The guns really were not all that interesting or useful or...starwars...for that matter. We had the bowcaster and the storm trooper blaster but the rest of them just didn't seem to fit the star wars theme. Heck, the sniper rifle is almost a complete copy of the Phase Compression Rifle from STAR TREK away team. And as for the wookie bow caster, its ALT fire bears a considerable resembleance to the ALT fire of the tetryon pulse something or other from star trek away team as well. The alt fire of the repeater rifle bears a strong resembleance to the alt fire of the scavenger rifle, also in star trek away team. And why the heck did they have to add in a rocket launcher? I'd almost give my right nut to see a FPS without a rocket launcher of some type.

 

The levels never really instilled suspense or tension in me. Perhaps because I was spending too much time playing "Spot the Sniper" and falling to my death, I never felt like I was beating the game 'on the fly'. I've hit the quick load key more times then I can remeber, and got into the habit of saving every other minute. At times it felt more like work then fun

 

Still the game DID have its moments. The sound was awesome, and the saber duels where all fun. Several of the puzzles where enjoyable as well. Multiplay is fun, though I would have prefered to see classes. Despite the no classes, MP adds considerably to this game. And I must add that the death star MP level has got to be one of the best I've ever seen. You can fire the SUPER LASER on it!!!

 

So all in all, an average game that could have been better if it didn't feel like a giant quake mod. Its not a 40% by a long shot, but I dont' think its deserving allot of the praise many reviews are giving it.

 

OOO

[Plan9]

if you play JK2 with a walk through, not much (if any) of the experience is lost... the levels are designed to lead you where you need to go and nothing more, doors that would normally lead to unnecessary paths to other parts of a base are simply painted onto the walls and are seemingly 'locked'... the doors that can be opened, *need* to be opened so that you can progress further..."

 

OMG, I cant BELIEVE he faults the game for this. EVERY SINGLE FPS I have ever played has done this. I wonder what he expects? Has this guy ever even, you know, played any kind of FPS before? jesus...

[hughJ]

HL, Deus Ex, Unreal... god, even Duke3d, RTCW, SOF, etc, etc... are far less linear...

 

only games that come close to how linear this game is, are maybe Quake1, Doom.. and neither of those games are really built on any kind of story, plot, etc...

[Pvt_Dancer]

Yeah, that is pretty common.. painted on doors.

 

I especially disliked the sporadic force power effectiveness, sometimes you can pull an object out or push a button and other times you cant.

 

Yes.... now that I am being critical of the game and not eagerly making my way through it... it would have been nice if more things responded to the Force... if you had a little more control over your Force targeting when you reached the higher levels. I think I would have liked it better if push/pull only pushed/pulled multiple targets if you charged it up a little (like jump jumps higher the longer you hold it). That way a little pull would grab a single weapon or item and yank it... holding it would pull several Stormies toward you. A tap of push would push one targeted object and a longer hold would push several guys over.

 

It would be nice to be able to push debris or crates... smash them into guys... crush them between a crate and a hard place or if they're standing on them, they would tumble to the ground as the crate/barrel is yanked from under them.

 

HL, Deus Ex, Unreal... god, even Duke3d, RTCW, SOF, etc, etc... are far less linear...

Dude... these are all linear games. There are very few nonlinear story driven games out there. No one wants to make a story that can radically divide itself. In each of the above games you HAVE to go from point A to B and kill C before moving to D. Granted Deus Ex lets you choose how you want to tackle an objective and that is VERY cool. The storyline still progresses along certain guidelines though. HL... you HAVE to go to the test chamber, Xen and then RIGHT at the end you have a choice of how you want the story to end... linear. Duke3d? You walk through every level hitting buttons and killing things until you smack the big nuke button... thats linear!

[Sartis]

Well the rreason for the communications array thing was BECAUSE gee golly gosh you didn't have the security access to the computers to dial, if you noticed there was 3 computers to dial the symbols by they 'weren't online' ie you didn't have the access codes or authority to bring them online, so what are you going to do? go slaughter the bridge crew and try it from there? or do it the jedi way and do it manually?

[arctic_series]

bah it's obvious, they're trekkies

[Pvt_Dancer]

Yes sartis, but there is no earthly reason, not even in a fantasy, that a group would build their spaceship so that you have to jump from small box room to box room to boot up a computer. In all likelihood they would just put the controls in a locked panel somewhere. Hehehe...

[acdcfanbill]

my opinion of Tech TV went down a notch when i heard of the review... grrr:mad: oh well, i guess i wont kill them hehe, anyway, well i guess its not for everyone, but i still love the game, a 110% from me the reviewer course im biased...

[Raynaga]

I have to admit, I agree with a lot of that. The stealth level in particular was ridiculous. I had faced and killed far more enemies at once than I was having to avoid, and that was the ONLY section in the ship that had alarms for troops in danger? Get serious.

 

As for the jumping puzzles, I was wishing m cieling fan would fall and knock me out through most of them. They just made no damn sense. Normally I have no trouble with suspension of disbelief, but when it affects gameplay then that is something else.

 

And finally, multiplayer. Ah multiplayer. I play the duel servers on a regular basis and have a good time doing so, but I have to admit it feels like a wasted opportunity. After Medal of Honor, RtCW, hell, even Unreal Tournament, I expect more than deathmatch and Capture the Flag. That is why I never bought Quake III. Deathmatch, in my eyes, is dead. The team-orientated, goal-based multiplayer of other games opened my eyes to a new way to play. A way with strateg and depth instead of running in circles shooting anything that moves. Can you image the battle of Hoth, faithfully rendered and executed? Wasted opportunity.

 

In the end, I think it is very fair to say that if this wasn't

A) Star Wars

and

B)Lightsaber ready

 

then this game would be bashed into oblivion for its level design, multiplayer, and yes, even plot (Dinosaur uses force to get to room under Jedi Academy that has no apparent purpose except to make players use Force Speed to reach it? Come on). The lightsaber is the only thing that saves this game from complete mediocrity. And with that, I will go visit the Duel servers and hope for users to mod where Raven failed.

 

--R--

[hughJ]

"In each of the above games you HAVE to go from point A to B and kill C before moving to D. Granted Deus Ex lets you choose how you want to tackle an objective and that is VERY cool. The storyline still progresses along certain guidelines though. HL... you HAVE to go to the test chamber, Xen and then RIGHT at the end you have a choice of how you want the story to end... linear. Duke3d? You walk through every level hitting buttons and killing things until you smack the big nuke button... thats linear!"

 

I said they are far LESS linear than JK2... all of those games of course had a beginning and an ending, however through better level design they made each level experience seem like an actual place *enough* that it gave the level some atmosphere..

 

*edit*and if a level seemed to play easier if you went the route of stealth, then you employed such a strategy... the fact that JK2 had to spell it out like that just seemed: 'bleah'.. but in Deus Ex if you ever wanted to go the stealth route, it was usually because you were actually worried about staying alive.. not because some guy would flip a switch that triggers a cut scene where you're auto-captured... even the stealth level in RTCW fit a whole lot better into the environment.. they had people in watch towers.. with binoculors.. and you had to time their routes and watch-periods in order to get by... and then after that you could disable their alarm simply by sniping out the alarm switch before they have a chance to hit it...*/edit*

 

which kinda points back to my reasoning of comparing the playing experience of with and without the help of a walk-through.. in any of those games I listed, using a walk-through would hurt the atmosphere and experience.. because a lot of the places you go to seem to have some element of discovery and adventure to it.. even without a walk-through, JK2 feels like one of the Raven developers is constantly leading me by the hand to each switch I have to hit... because the levels are designed to do just that, and only that...

 

I guess I just keep remembering back to how I felt, "oh cool, a bar! with regular people I can talk to, to try and find this guy I'm looking for.." and outside it seems like this massive city at first glance.... and by the end of the level.. you have just enough time to look back at it all and trace the path that you've taken.. and you realize just how linear it is... it had the most potential of all the levels (imo), to deliver an atmosphere and experience that could be somewhat memorable.. it ended up being the biggest disappointment..