Sabers

[HBK]

Sorry about your situation Snake. You'll be on your feet in no time.

 

As for sounds in the sabres, I have seen some sites recently that has instructions for adding them(in some creative ways). I have also found sites that have the 'blades' and are supposedly durable. Those get fairly expensive though, around $75+. Wish I remembered the sites. Do searches for "how to build a lightsabre", build a lightsabre", homemade lightsabre", etc... You might get lucky.

 

I am actually going to give it a shot and try my hand at building one(no blade or sound for now). Going to put a part list together tonight and buy the stuff tomorrow.

[Jonyo]

Hi, when you where swinging the saber around, and the blade hit something, how much did it bend? Did it bend like a fiberglass pole, or did it have enough strenght to clash? Just wondering, for dueling sake...

[Con. Snake]

It doesn't bend.

[Demangel]

I was in the SCa for a while, got a kick out of it for a short while, but ended up leaving due to what I called, Artistic differences.

 

but enough about the SCA.

 

there is a HUGE difference between live steel and boffer/boken style fighting. for one, live steel unless properly choreographed must be done at about half speed maximum, and the people participating must be very experienced. to be remotely safe.

 

I have been teaching sword and weapon styles for years now, from Katana to broadswords, to spears, and nunchaku.

 

To me live steel is more dramatic due to the slowed down movements, onlookers can actually see the moves and ooh and ahh like they should.

 

you also take less unreal risks with live steel. In boffer fights you know the worst you can get is a bruise, or in the extreme a broken bone. but with live steel even a sliver can be bad news if your hit by some jerk who doesn't maintain his blades, and you get tetenous.

 

One reason I left the SCA was due to the fact that is began dulling my real weapon combat senses a bit. for example, in the SCa you cannot use realistic techniques, only blocks and parries, it becomes a form of fencing... In real weapon combat, you don't limit yourself to using just the weapon. for example.

 

In the SCA you cannot knee, kick, punch, throw or otherwise use any part of your body against your enemy, you must only use your weapon. you Can't even shield check (which is "somewhat" intrinsic to using a shield, a shield that is just used for blocking is only being half used trust me).

 

thier rationale for this is sound, they want to keep everyone safe, since it is a big organization it's hard to do it without strict and narrow rules.

 

Another thing I disliked about the chapter I belonged to was they would not allow me to start with a two handed weapon, or any other form EXCEPT for sword and shield.

 

I am not horrible at this style, however, about 70% of the training I went through involved styles using dual weaponry or two handed style weapons. thus limiting me to that one style was like taking a Person skilled at a rifle and handing them a long bow. I could still do it, but I had to reteach myself a lot of things, it ended up being annoying. At least the guy in charge of the combat was cool and a good teacher, or I would never have stayed as long as I did.

 

As far as Saber combat goes, I would say it would be a cross between Using a katana, and a broadsword.

 

there is a web site I found somewhere, possibly the same one HBK found (I been there before you linked to it BTW and thought it was very cool good call on bringing this one up man I was gonna do it till I read yours , that discusses how a saber might actually work and be used.

 

My only concern about the functionality of sabers is this. One of the most intrinsic parts of using a sword like weapon is the balance and wieght of the weapon.

 

If the saber is like a flashlight (the wieght is only in the hand/cylinder), it would never and I repeat NEVER be used like a swrod in any real way. Don't beleive me? go grab your flashlight, now assume the light beam instantly cuts through just about anything it touches. do you have to swing it hard at all? no... thus you don't have to wind up, you can simply twist your wrist and kill ten people if they are lined up.

 

So when watching the movies I decided that sabersblades have a wieght to them. Sure you could say they look that way because of what the prop was, but it goes beyond this, as I said in my opinion without a wieght to the blade, they would be too hard to use and saber fights would never happen the way they show. honestly, one guy would simply sit thier moving his wrist and arm as quickly as he could in a dizzying pattern, the other guy would be hard pressed to block anything! go take a yard stick and see how fast you can wing that around just using your wrist, imagine trying to block that, even WITH the power of the force behind you! They are not lasers, and are more than just tubes of forcefields filled with high energy plasma.

 

how might this work?

 

Well first off Lets assume saber technology uses a simlar but advanced form of the technology used by blasters.

 

A web site was up that looked at why blasters where developed, so I will simply cut to the chase, due to the technology at the time, solid progectile weapons lost most of their effectiveness, high density hard armor could now be made easily, which could more easily protect against things we would call machine guns ETC. (Thats why the repeater I always thought was kind of silly, no matter how cool it is).

 

So the blaster bolt was created.

 

it combines an energy weapon with some elements of mass drivers to create a weapon capable of punching through and burning through armor and whatever else.

 

Please note, that laser beams do not have a travel time so to speak, they would travel at the speed of light, and would look more or less like a phaser beam, not a tracer round. you wouldn't need to lead your target with a laser style weapon (think disruptor VS the e11 for example).

 

the blaster bolt, is:

 

a particle forcefield/shield surrounding a dense small bit of high energy psuedo plasma. somehow the creators found a way to give it enough inertia/mass to hit with force, and fly for long distances. Possibly by making the plasma dense (compressed into a small space, but still hot and energetic like plasma would be (plasma is the fourth state of mater, just above Vapor/gas).

 

this force shield is set to deteriorate as it passes through matter (this makes sense since avery atom and molecule which this bolt travels through would deenergize/strip off particles, weakening the field). the amount of matter it is set to penetrate can be set. for example, against heavier armor it might need to be set to penetrate after penetrating more mass.

 

this force filed is also set up so that matter can penetrate it more or less like a strainer. thus anything the bolt passes through comes into contact with the plasma. giving it greater damage and penetration power.

 

this technology would no doubt spring from the protective force fields created for ships ETC. the protective one would be set to have the highest ability to pass through matter, Ie pushing it away. the way force fields and particles in this state work theoretically can be made to have a certain charge to it, that repells like charges. OR more likely is set to use a sort of harmonic frequency. this would make it so that you could pass a ship through a field without problems, by having two identical frequencies. However these frequencies could be nearly infinately varied.

 

this principle is used for the hanger bays, allowing ships to pass through this barrier by having the force field merge with the fieild of the ship. Creating a bubble of sorts through wich the ship may pass, since the field blocks matter, or any kind of force field without the same frequency.

 

this leads us to the ability to make the following...

 

a hollow cylinder of force field energy, perhapse a centimeter in diameter, and up to a 2 feet or so long. this cyllinder would be used as the housing for the Dense high energy psuedo plasma in the light saber blade.

 

This field would allow matter to pass through it passing into and through the plasma stream vaporising it instantly, but keeping other force fields out, and since like charges repell eachother, it can even deflect that other field away to a degree. The plasma in the saber is kept in the field because the field has a specific charge to it, and plasma is VERY easily effected by magnetism and charge.

 

this would allow the saber blade to have Mass (due to the high density of the plasma), thus giving the saber a balance when lit. It would also allow for the saberist to deflect and block incoming attacks. by both blaster weapons solid rounds, and especialy light sabers. Since the frequency of the saber no doubt can be set by the user, and or randomized via a small simple computer function, no two sabers need ever/should ever have the same frequency.

 

This would mean that although you could simply wave it into something without any strength and destroy it, you would need to swing it with force to be sure the force field would pass through the material quickly and effectively in a fight. Since this force field would repell matter to a certain degree.

 

So lets assume that the water thing is Canon now, and say that lightsabers do not work under water. this can be made sensible in only one way. only IF a lit saber can function for a limited time underwater, but the power drain is VERY high, and the self recharging batterry/generator runs out too fast keeping the field stable and the plasma hot/intact.

 

However it would not be lightable under water, since the emitter would be exposed, not allowing the field to form properly.

 

In a way Lucas or whoever created the concept of the saber is a genius since theoretically the way they work in the movies IS accurate to the theoretical models. the blade WOULD no doubt spark as they are dragged acrss eachother due to particles being stripped away, and the charges reacting. they would flash when hitting another saber or balster bolt, for the same reasons as particles are thrown off from the force of the impact.

 

the color of the saber could easily be changes by changing the element used to create the plasma. each element when turned into plasma I think gives off a different color.

 

Perhaps the colors green, yellow, red, blue, and purple, indicate that only a few elements are suitable for use as saber plasma.

 

I thus implore people not to nescessarily subscribe to the Saber crystal theory, it's a nice thought and all, but it kind of sucks some of the possibilities out. Crystals MIGHT be important for some aspect, perhapse they focus the laser or whatever which creates the plasma? but as the sole reason why a saber works, it makes little real sense. It ends up being technobabble, basically like saying: well how did the torpedo's luke shot into the first death star go down the tubes like that? It was the force dude!

 

I guess it works, but it's nescessarily the best answer. heheh.

 

so if crystals ARe used to focus the laser or whatever that heats up the plasma so quickly then certainly it WOULd explain why a Jedi must construct his own Saber as part of his training. It would be a good test of the force to see if you can properly align the crystal to focus the beam properly, as well as selecting the right crystal in the first place with out any technological help.

 

Hope someone found this interesting

 

And yes Some of this I took from that web site I forgot the adress too, but incase your wondering I am this nuts, and do know what I am talking about to good degre... heheh Just about everything I said is theoretically possible.

[Guest HertogJan]

OMG!! Damn, well thank you, now I have another thing I want so desperately and can't buy

 

Now I'm going to try and make a fake handle

 

Oh yeah, check this out:

http://www.wordsmithdigital.com/saber/swname.htm

 

Ver-Ja Metil is my name... It looks better than the other trick on these forums...

 

You can find out your Star Wars name, if just do the following:

 

For your FIRST NAME:

Then the first 3 letters of your LAST name.

Take the first 2 letters of your FIRST name.

 

For your LAST NAME:

Then the first 2 letters of your MOM’S MAIDEN name.

Then the first 3 letters of the TOWN YOU WERE BORN IN.

 

 

 

Anywayz thx for the links...!!

[princessliar]

Ever heard of a typu?

I thought they'd put "gedi" to avoid any copyright issues.

[Con. Snake]

I got lost after "I was in". Guess I have too many things on my mind.

 

Possibly so Princess Liar. I assumed it was a typo.

[Guest HertogJan]

Demangel, nice post! I could imagine how to build a saber, I'd nearly done it! But then I realized we don't have that crystals, plasma and infinite energy sources And I think every metal we know would belt by the massive amounts of energy it is exposed to in a lightsaber...

 

I guess we'll have to stick to the neon like sabers

[princessliar]

Hmm, leafing through the Argos catalogue I saw these in the light fittings section (please excuse crummy picture quality - have bad scanner):

 

 

You couldn't use 'em for dueling and they'd have to plugged into the mains to work, but if you made a hollow handle and fitted it over the end with the wire coming out (I think you can take the black cap off the other end) you could make a pretty cool "ornamental" saber out of one, just to keep in your room or something. They only come in blue and yellow, but at £19.99 can you really complain?

[Guest HertogJan]

If you want THE REAL THING, go to this site:

 

http://www.lightsaberreplicas.com/Vader.html

 

They are a LITTLE expensive; $1800 per lightsaber, that's without shipping costs and a 4.8% fee for credit card payment...

 

That would make about $1950, even more for international shipping... You gotta be a real SW fanatic to buy one of those!

[D'akt Sangwar]

con.snake

 

here is my big apology for bugging you

 

:evanpiel: :evanpiel: :evanpiel: :evanpiel: but thanks for answering annoying questions

[D'akt Sangwar]

g

r

u

m

p

y

 

 

[Con. Snake]

Like I said, let see how grumpy you are after giving your contact information out to one person and(not ****ting you here) 253 people are instant messaging you while you're trying to get your schwerve on in JK2.

[grandmasterlee]

Great read Demangel. One question though, in situations where the inner plasma is constantly exposed, i.e. Qui-gon Jinn slowly cutting through the heavy blast door, how does the plasma stay together? Theoretically....

[Trahern Valley]

Great post Demangel, that actually answered a couple of questions (about actual duelling and SW tech). What can I say, I'm a Highlander-the-series fan.

 

Speaking of which...so I have a reference, how fast was the duelling in the series? Assuming you've seen any of it, of course.

[Demangel]

first off for the qui gon thing, It's kind of a wierd question, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

 

Remember the Plasma is contained in a force field of sorts that only allows solidlighiud and gaseous matter into it. The plasma would be suspended probably by a form of magnetic property in the force field "bottle."

 

What I think you mean is how does it stay hot.

 

Well the same way it does to begin with, the sabers somehow heat up some element to the plasmatic state (Not sure if thats a technical term though). Remember some elements in plasma state arn't all that hot, some I think are actually fairly cool in temperature. you could do more damage with a hot poker for example.

 

Now Plasma disipates it's heat quickly I think also, but it doesn't radiate it like you might expect. This is why you can hold your hand right next to a saber beam or be within inches of it, and not burst into flame.

 

Also it is so hot, flames don't start, it simply poofs the material straight into vapor/gas as it is touched. in the case of denser materials like metals, and blast doors it would probably simply melt, like lava. Also remember the actual Saber blade is probably only about a centimeter thick, thats right, it's VERY thin.

 

Now with all this it's safe to say that it's fairly easy to keep the plasma at a high state of energy/heat ETC since the force field makes the plasma itself in an almost closed system.

 

Remember however qiu gon didn't swipe into it, he moved it slowly and deliberately, even turned it. Why? Probably because he had to give the saber time to keep the plasam hot. Normally cutting through an object like an arm or something wouldn't drain much heat from it. It is also possible that the force field pulses on and off at a super high frequency, fast enough to keep the plasma from leaving the saber form very much but enough to let in matter, remember all these are only possibilities on how it works, some negate other properties, but all tend to explain one facet or another.

 

For example this pulsing effect would cause the sabers to seem a bit thicker than they are for example, since a minute puff of the plasma would be ejected as the field switches off. It also accounts for the hum that comes from the blade itself beyond just the fact that it is hot. Just the heat would cause a different sound most likely. Least I would think right? but not the throbbing sound they seem to have.

 

so in other words qui gon probably moved it slowly to cut through the thick dor due to the drain on the saber, and the fact that the doors needed to be continously exposed to the plasma to be melted properly. In all likely hood when he thrust the saber into the door, it probably shortened, but wouldn't be visible, it literally burrowed into the door, which is why he paused as well I bet.

 

anyway none of this can be proven in the end till the real thing is made so yeah heheh, this is just how I envision it to work.

 

As for highlander, I hated the series, but I watched it once or twice.

 

In any case the fighting in highlander, as in all movies was most likely very choreographed extensively before the shooting. Unlike a fistfight a sword fight even with blunt swords (which the swords where in the actual fight scenes) needs to be carefully planned.

 

Once the scene was practiced enough you could perform it in near full speed. Really in the movies for example the difference between the speeds is so marginal, it can pass as the real thing to even a trained eye if not for one small exception.

 

In a real sword fight, most likely you wouldn't have the kind of clashes you see so often. It's hard to explain, but in movies they make it look like the target is the enemies sword all too often. While this is a valid technique (such as batting the enemies sword away prior to a strike as an offensive move), it is much less effective than simply parrying or deflecting then countering, or going right for the source.

 

In the movies for example and the series, if you didn't intercept the blade of your enemy about 70% or more of the swings would miss you, or not really be a targetted blow (IE it might hit you, possibly kill you but not because it was aimed to do so). the blade was aimed at the other blade. Guaranteed...

 

I have helped choreograph a few fight scenes in a few stage plays, and plenty of staged exhibitions. People want to see swords crossing more than simply a good fighter. while sword clashes can and do happen a LOT in the real thing, the winner is rarely the guy who has the best clashes, the winner is the guy who scores the hit despite the other blade.

 

thus if I made a realistic highlander type fight scene, nine times out of ten if clashes occured they would be less dramatic, and more as deflections and parries.

 

a better example is how a Katana can be used defensively.

 

Katana's CAN be used to block with, but it is far more recomended to deflect and parry. you would never want to simply bounce your finely edged weapon against another edged weapon if you could help it. Bouncing your weapon in this way is what makes up about 50% or more of the blocks shown in the movies.

 

this destroys blades too well. Even european swords need to take care about this. though one must keep in mind european swords generaly don't put the emphasis on the edge of the weapon as they do on the point. The point penetrates the armor, the edge does so only occasionaly unless against leather or lighter forms of chainmail.

 

Better forms of these weapons usualy have "saw teeth" of sorts along part of the edge, which are used to penetrate the armor and do greater damage in general in a normal swinging fashion as well as a thrust. they are however less elegant, and thus less seen in the movies. thus most people think they are there just to look mean... Trust me they ARE mean.

 

So what makes a Katana such a fine weapon?

 

It's edge is one of the sharpest edges imaginable on a sword. the funy thing is though for all that sharpness you could literally bounce the edge off the palm of your hand and not get a scratch, but rest the edge lightly on your palm and pull it in a cutting fashion even without pressure, and you can cut down to the bone before you realise it.

 

against leather, and other armors this is highly effective. However this weapon can STILL due to it's other properties be sturdy, and powerful enough to cut through plate armor, however nine times out of ten doing so would ruin your sword. your better off striking a joint, or weak target area of a heavily armored foe.

 

Needless to say you never see this kind of thing in most movies. Most people don't know and don't care to know things like that. I sure didn't till I found out on my own. So they don't show truly realistic techniques very often. Nothing wrong with that however since realism is far less dramatic I think, unless done just right... and thats hard to do.

 

thats all for my lesson for today. LOL

[Bungalow]

How is the blade held inside the shaft, is it secure, or can someone just come by and pull it off?

[Con. Snake]

You can't just pull it off, but it's not permanantly affixed to it either.

[Cracked]

this is gonna be my next "blow a whole bunch of money on something you don't really need" purchase:D

[Gummy]

They look pretty good.

But I was surprised it costed that little.

 

Master Replicas had just recently made a lightsaber and it cost more.

 

Now those sabers don't seem to cost too much eh?

 

Now they have 4 lightsabers, one for each of the (famous) jedis.

Yes! Even Yoda's saber! The one that is going to be in the movie!

 

http://www.masterreplicas.com/StarWars/Home.asp

 

Check it out.

High quality stuff

[GooglyMoogly]

A few months ago I decided to try and build my own. Most of it is made of parts you can find at any hardware store. The blade I bought online from http://www.beingseen.com. I did some work on the blade to improve it's looks from the way it was shipped to me.

 

It's not done yet, but take a looky:

 

 

 

 

(Sorry for the grainy pictures )

 

Building your own allows you to use your imagination and create a Uniquely You kind-of-a saber.

[Arrghman]

why get a tube when you can have a *real* blade?

 

http://freeweb.pdq.net/smokin/rotoscope/

[Con. Snake]

Building your own is all and good, assuming you have the ability and/or talent to do so.

[coldsun22]

Hey i just want to say that the sabers are awesome!!! I am going to get the malestrom one as soon as i get the money. Thanks for showing me the site!

[Demolisher]

THey're so expensive. I'd make my own, but it would come out so horrible. There's this site that gives instructions for various models.