Post-release additions into SP levels

[Lord_FinnSon]

I think every level in the game has been created with awesome detail, but lack of civilian NPC's and creatures is kinda weird after JK/MotS.

 

Nar Shaddaa, for example, had only a bartender who wasn't exactly hostile towards you and tried to do his job, but all paying customers were suddenly againts you(few civilians running away from the line of fire when everybody starts to shoot at you would have corrected this issue nicely). Couple of droids doing their job and speeders driving by were nice touch though.

 

In Bespin only civilians I ran into were Ugnauts, but they were occasional surprises(even though they form the majority of the working class in Cloud City) and with Security Guards they were the only prove that someone really lives up there if we forget droids and non-imperial enemies. I can understand that those civilians were either hiding somewhere or Security Guard might have ordered them to stay inside their apartments(which are nowhere to be seen just as in Nar Shaddaa), but few of them could still be "wondering" in the streets and find themselves in the middle of battle when you rush in. As a sidenote, it's also weird that you can't you see any flying cloud cars but only stationary ones(considering there were quite a lot flying Tie Fighters and X-Wings in few other levels).

 

What about creatures? I only remember little spiders on Artus Prime, but swamps on Yavin, for example, even though full of cool swaying grass, colourful trees and lots of water seemed so lifeless. It's decieving, because even ambient voices you hear promise birds and other animals, but when you go swimming first time, you understand that you aren't going to see any: where have all the fishes gone? There even was a concept art of strange lizard that looked something that would roam in the swamps, but I don't remember seeing it anywhere in the game...

 

I think these(if considered in the first place) were omitted mostly because of time constraints, but now when game has been available some time, how about adding them into SP with patch update? I think they wouldn't change too much in the actual gameplay, because I'm only talking about few models here, but instead add much more life into environments.

[StormHammer]

I have to totally agree with you there, FinnSon. I missed all of these elements too.

 

While you certainly had some allies in the game, and had to protect some of them from attack, there were no neutral characters. I even remember a stray blaster shot hitting an Ugnaught, and he whipped out a blaster and started firing at me. Well, that's fair enough as far as self-protection goes...but I would have preferred being given the benefit of the doubt, like with Jan. You shoot her once, and she tells you to lay off. Shoot an Ugnaught once, and he tries to kill you - which meant I had to kill him.

 

Anyway, I digress.

 

I was hoping to see workers on Artus prime, as Imperials stood guard over them - and then free them, and lead them in a revolt to finally reach the detention centre and set others free.

 

I was hoping to see civilians of all different types and races walking around Nar Shadaa - who would, as you say, dive for cover when the shooting starts.

 

It would have been great to see a Jizz band in the cantina...and a whole variety of aliens and humans engaged in conversation.

 

As for Bespin, there should definitely have been more Ugnaughts, and some civilians.

 

The other thing I noticed with all of the levels was that none of them were designed with civilians in mind. No habitations, shops, refreshment stands, wash rooms...no real furniture apart from a few seating areas, so some of the levels lacked a bit of spice as a result.

 

As for the Swamp...I think I know why there was little going on...because everyone seems to be indicating a large framerate drop on that level. Adding even more things to it would have made it slow to a crawl or dead stop, probably.

 

Having said that, I don't know why it was so bright...or why you could see so far into the distance. My idea of a decent swamp is similar to Dagobah...dark and dreary, with lots of moisture vapour (ie, mist), and crowds of trees to hem you in. MotS had a passable swamp level (though the low-poly trees, and walls of trees textures didn't really work). I too hoped to see insects, fish, a variety of predators (flying and amphibious), and was looking forward to swimming into some deep pools to find some secrets.

 

But these features were missing, and the swamp level was poorer for their absence.

 

So, although Outcast was a great SP game, I still feel it lacks a certain punch, so any additions to the SP experience such as those outlined above would be very much appreciated.

[Lord_FinnSon]

Good to see someone replied. I know most feedback people leave here are related to MP and I'm sure it's also the part of the game that will be tweaked and fixed most. I personally buy games primarily because of their SP storyline and gameplay and even though JK2 is one of the few which MP has lately drawn my attention to itself, I'll like to visit SP again time to time.

 

That's why these leftouts bother me; I want to travel through environments which are swarming with live, at least in those limits that this technology allows it. True, sections of the cities weren't designed exactly livable(they aren't meant to be places of residence, but more like places where you go to work like garbage facilities, hangars, carbonite chambers and so on), but that only means there's all the more reason to have civilians around trying to do their job while you have your own mission to attend to. Showing briefly those who really keep all the systems and machinery running, workers and droids(few more models of these wouldn't hurt much either), makes it much more believable than a lonely scum constantly patrolling in the streets or waiting for you in his sniping spot.

 

Yeah, I remember large framerate drops on Yavin Swamp level, but still some kind of sign of creatures would have backed up those ambient voices. I didn't think about mist while playing, but now when you mentioned it, that might have gave the level darker mood(I already love that rain) and better framerate. It's actually funny afterwards, because Ravenites even made "new" fog especially for JK2, but ended up using it only on underside of Cloud City where it enhances nicely otherwise motionless sky(don't worry, I'm not going to rant about it ).

 

So, as I said earlier, Raven has created all of these levels with awesome detail and unlike some, I never thought about EF while examining architecture and/or textures. They just have to "inject" life into few places to spice things up and better define those worlds.

[Demolisher]

You're right, JK2 really needs people walking around to make the game look realistic. I mean if there werent crewmembers walking around in EF, the game wouldnt've been as real to the show

[Lord_FinnSon]

I just looked through assets0.pk3 and ran into a model named glider(models\players\glider\). When I opened it with just recently released ModView, I found it to be a cross of bird and insect with four legs. I really don't remember seeing it in the game, but it surely looks something that could fly in the sky of Yavin(it only has flying animation). Hopefully ravenites could still add it in the game, because it looks fabulous!

 

Also, this might be old news to some of you who have already been editing skins and doing mods, but looks like ravenites were going to include Jacen and Jaina Solo in some point during development as well, because I found their botfiles and there were even Wedge, but no actual models. I guess they just forgot to remove them before release.

My dad, Han Solo, can beat up your dad!

[ShadowCell]

I missed the realism of civilians and little monsters (and mist) too. When I ran through Nar Shaddaa, dodging Tenloss fire, I began to wonder "Don't normal people live here?". Then I went to Bespin, and "Hey, there were definitely people living here."

 

Usually, I put myself in the MP maps in SP and, with use of noclip and notarget, go around placing enemies everywhere. Into the mix I throw a few hapless droids, then go find a place to start, turn off my codes, and go slaughtering, but civilians would make the game far more realistic, as well as stuff like shops and bars, and an actual bandstand and (relatively) innocent bar patrons on Nar Shaddaa.

 

However, I suppose little creatures running around in the Yavin swamps would slow the game down to practically a standstill, so I guess we just have to do without mist and monsters. But civilians would have been fun to see.

[SPY_jmr1]

Originally posted by ShadowCell

I missed the realism of civilians and little monsters (and mist) too. When I ran through Nar Shaddaa, dodging Tenloss fire, I began to wonder "Don't normal people live here?". Then I went to Bespin, and "Hey, there were definitely people living here."

 

 

idea: what if the nar level in the game was, showing a bad parrt of town. now wait a sec, i relise that the whole place is a dump, but there have to be naster parts of it.

 

now would you want to live in the part of town covered in spiced-up rodian crime snipers???

 

kyle did go to see

reloo(sp?)

whats to say that the snipers are'nt there to deter intruders.

 

 

but onpoint, i wish that some noncombatment's were in the game.

 

CAN this be added as a mod?

[Lord_FinnSon]

CAN this be added as a mod?

I was thinking the same thing. In the Nar Shaddaa - Streets level, for example, there could be two space pirates trying to drink their refreshing juri juice inside the bar when all hell brakes loose. One runs out of the room to the catwalks outside(maybe snipers shoot him mistakenly, because they think it's you instead trying to escape in a hurry), while another disappears into the kitchen(if you follow him, you can find him from the alley, right outside the kitchen backdoor). Then there's that "small" middle building with locked door which controls the bridge that is drawn in: put one civillian inside to give an idea that someone actually controls it(she might ask for mercy, when you jump in through the roof window, because she was forced to do so).

 

In the Reelo's Hideout where you can find

Lando

from the cells with an energy field, maybe adding one or two civilians into the empty cells would give an image that Reelo really uses them to keep unwanted people aside.

 

Nar Shaddaa - Starport. This level is quite good as it is already, but you could add few more R2 units to do some maintenance work to

The Lady Luck

inside the hanger.

 

Cloud City - Underside. I can't remember any specific spots, but this awesome level really needs more ugnauts here and there to do their work.

 

Cloud City - Streets. There are few instances where you could easily replace few Wing Guards with civilian models(of course these have to be made first): one such case is when guard has kneeled down next to his fallen comrade(just replace him with dead civilian) as Kyle enters the room after seeing Cloud Car and dueling againts reborn, next would be the barricades down in the street where few guards are hiding from the turret fire and snipers(put one or two dead civilians next to barricades)and finally, when you later brake the lock in a door holding two guards inside that small room(let's say there are two civilians instead) after dealing with two rodians down in the corner. They start following you and pick up guns from the ground. Also, this level definitely needs few flying Cloud Cars.

 

Yavin Swamp. Maybe couple gliders flying here and there would add more wanted realism as we all agree that adding too many creatures can really make whole level unplayable.

 

As you can see I only mentioned few places in those levels, because I didn't want to start hassle with actual gameplay or enemy placement. Also, adding too many "new" models into level can have some serious framerate drops, so I kept them minimum.

 

BTW, I have been examining JK2Radiant few times and found a list of available NPC's(View/Toggle/Entity View) you can add into the level and there was few monsters(Claw, Fish, Flier2, Glider, Howler, Lizard, Murjj and Swamp) mentioned. I haven't checked through all models, so I can't say for sure are these all(except glider) even included... EDIT: Okey, I tried to spawn all of these while playing SP, but Howler turned out to be just a stormtrooper and glider was the only other monster that appeared, so we can now be sure there are no other monster models included. Weird that JK2Radiant still lists all of them though.

[Lord_FinnSon]

I just got an idea of possible civilians for Nar Shaddaa Streets -level: Ithorians and Twi'leks.

 

LEC used Ithorians as non-imperial enemies in MotS, even though both game manual and official SW site say that they are actually peace-loving race, and Twi'leks(except Boc) were never real warriors, because they think that "strength does not always come from confrontation". Also, having one or two Twi'lek(perhaps blue and red skinned) dancers in the bar would be a nice touch as they could, in a way, replace those space pirates I mentioned earlier AND entertain you before all hell breaks loose.

[txa1265]

In much the same way we so enjoy the stormtrooper conversations, it would be great to have civilians wandering around ... even if to discuss how dangerous things are - before getting gunned down like the prisoner in the early detention level.