Dark Forces TC

[Tigris]

The Force has all of the Midi-Files from DF... Just find someone with a good soundcard and let him record them to wav, then convert them to mp3... that should do it...

[MilesTeg]

@infinity_blade

repost of the first DF Thread:

 

http://www.df-21.net/

DF Editing page

 

http://darkforces.future.easyspace.com/

vocs, weapons

 

http://www.laredlite.ipfox.com/

weapons, cheats, many other pics (including a cutscene pic with jabba and kyle for all those skin makers out there)

 

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9394/

Listing of the midi files (not all downloads working)

 

http://www.hillside.co.uk/glyn/dark/dark.html

audio files, pics and full demo (don´t forget to check sys requ. ! )

[Infinity Blade]

Thanks man...

 

Sorry.. didn't see the first time in the other thread.

 

Much appreciated.

[The_One]

Seems all is go...

 

I'll see about getting the webspace and a couple of forums =] Then that would give us a place to start talking and throwing ideas around etc...

[JCronic]

I support this project all the way. I would love to see a DF, JK, or MOTS TC for JKII. The only thing that would be a bummer of a DF conversion is that there would be no lightsaber. I still think it would be pretty fun to play though.

[Tzar Sectus]

I just emailed a Raven employee about the release of the SP source code, and he said Raven has no plans to release it. This is going to make this very difficult for us since we need that source to make the new enemies, weapons and such. And since LucasArts will most probably not respond with a yes I must say this doesn't look too bright.

 

-Remi

[MilesTeg]

Thats sad news...

 

Maybe we get at least respond from LEC *fingerscrossed*...

[JCronic]

Originally posted by Tzar Sectus

I just emailed a Raven employee about the release of the SP source code, and he said Raven has no plans to release it. This is going to make this very difficult for us since we need that source to make the new enemies, weapons and such. And since LucasArts will most probably not respond with a yes I must say this doesn't look too bright.

 

-Remi

 

I say that somebody should start a petition to try and get Raven to release the source code. If it gets enough sigs, I'm sure Raven would consider it.

[Pear]

I can convert the MIDI music from DF into respectable MP3's if you still want someone to. I'm using a Yamaha XG Synth. Tell me if you think this sounds alright:

 

http://members.lycos.co.uk/n0v4/opening[1].mp3

 

This is "opening.mid" from DF converted to MP3. It sounds pretty good in my opinion, better than normal soundblaster MIDI.

 

It cuts off at the end because it's supposed to be a dynamic/looping MIDI. Not sure if I can do anything about that.

[Assault3000]

If Lucasarts dosnt answer then I'll take that as a "We dont care". I don't know why it would bother them though, I mean we are using a game that is making them money just to convert an original that isn't getting them money anymore. So if Lucasarts dosn't respond then obviously they don't care otherwise they would have sent a message immediatly saying no. So if they don't answer with a no I'll begin extracting the voice files from the original DF and give credit to the original voice actors of course. Unless of course you guys think we should redo the voices.

[Darth_Linux]

Originally posted by Tzar Sectus

I just emailed a Raven employee about the release of the SP source code, and he said Raven has no plans to release it. This is going to make this very difficult for us since we need that source to make the new enemies, weapons and such. And since LucasArts will most probably not respond with a yes I must say this doesn't look too bright.

 

-Remi

 

I haven't looked at the current SDK yet, but it's my understanding that it is just map and model editing utilities right? Nothing to alter the game code? They may not have any "official" plans to release code to the games dll, but that doesn't mean they won't do it - they just need to put the time into doing it.

 

In the meantime, we simply keep going on the maps and use weapons and enemies from JO that fit the best into the scenario. Once/if the dll code is released, we can go back and change out the JO stuff with the DF stuff.

 

In any case, don't give up hope yet - these things take a long time to happen and we have plenty of mapping to accomplish before we need to worry about the game code.

 

Darth Linux

[Darth_Linux]

Originally posted by Pear

I can convert the MIDI music from DF into respectable MP3's if you still want someone to. I'm using a Yamaha XG Synth. Tell me if you think this sounds alright:

 

http://members.lycos.co.uk/n0v4/opening[1].mp3

 

This is "opening.mid" from DF converted to MP3. It sounds pretty good in my opinion, better than normal soundblaster MIDI.

 

It cuts off at the end because it's supposed to be a dynamic/looping MIDI. Not sure if I can do anything about that.

 

This sounds decent, but a little on the dry side. Does your XG have standard MIDI reverb and chorus effects that you could add? I used to convert MIDI to MP3 using a Roland Sound Canvas SC88, but I don't have that unit anymore - the XG is probably comparable.

 

If you could add some verb to the tracks to give it some depth, I'd say go ahead and render all the MIDI tracks to MP3 at your earliest convenience . .

 

JO can play MP3 files natively right? or does it use another format?

 

I might also suggest doing each song at something like 92kbs and 256 kbs, that way we can give people a choice of quality. We could put all the 92kbs mp3's in one pak file, and all the 256kbs mp3's in another so if people don't care enough about the quality they can opt for the smaller download. I'm guessing all the songs in MP3 format will weigh in at > 50 MBs at the 256kbs quality level . . .

 

Darth Linux

[Assault3000]

Jedi Outcast does use MP3's from the assests0 and 1 files in the base directory.

[Pear]

Originally posted by Darth_Linux

 

This sounds decent, but a little on the dry side. Does your XG have standard MIDI reverb and chorus effects that you could add? I used to convert MIDI to MP3 using a Roland Sound Canvas SC88, but I don't have that unit anymore - the XG is probably comparable.

 

If you could add some verb to the tracks to give it some depth, I'd say go ahead and render all the MIDI tracks to MP3 at your earliest convenience . .

 

JO can play MP3 files natively right? or does it use another format?

 

I might also suggest doing each song at something like 92kbs and 256 kbs, that way we can give people a choice of quality. We could put all the 92kbs mp3's in one pak file, and all the 256kbs mp3's in another so if people don't care enough about the quality they can opt for the smaller download. I'm guessing all the songs in MP3 format will weigh in at > 50 MBs at the 256kbs quality level . . .

 

Darth Linux

 

I don't think I can add anything. I don't have a hardware DSP, it's just a software synth. I just did some VERY simple editing to convert from midi-wav-mp3 with Winamp and a program called CDEX. It only took a minute or two. I'm not a MIDI editor/creator or anything...my soundcard just happened to come with the Yamaha XG software which plays midi files very nicely.

[Darth_Linux]

Originally posted by Assault3000

If Lucasarts dosnt answer then I'll take that as a "We dont care". I don't know why it would bother them though, I mean we are using a game that is making them money just to convert an original that isn't getting them money anymore. So if Lucasarts dosn't respond then obviously they don't care otherwise they would have sent a message immediatly saying no. So if they don't answer with a no I'll begin extracting the voice files from the original DF and give credit to the original voice actors of course. Unless of course you guys think we should redo the voices.

 

I tend to agree with you on this that if they care they will speak up. I think it may take them up to a month to actually read the email, check with the legal team, form a response and get back to Demyse or whoever else asked them the question in the first place. I wouldn't expect a huge company like LEC to reply the next day or anything.

 

I've already dumped the artwork and given it to the mappers privately . . . we should do the same with the WAV files, but without access to the games dll, I'm not sure we'll be able to use them just yet . . . . we'll know in due time.

 

We do run a risk with redistributing the original art, midi and wave files because they *are* copyrighted material that is to be redistributed to people in a JO Mod - certainly an infringement. But if LEC is nice enough to let us do this since they make $$ either way (on DF and JO), then it would ok for everyone.

 

I guess we will have to see. I suggest to we lie low and build build build, but not release to the public anything until we get word from LEC one way or the other. They can't fox you if you haven't released anything publicly, and nothing can stop us from making maps on our home computer using DF art, or art from any other game for that matter . . .

 

D_L

[MilesTeg]

I think it sounds wonderful! Reminds me somehow of my old nintendo

[Darth_Linux]

Originally posted by Pear

 

I don't think I can add anything. I don't have a hardware DSP, it's just a software synth. I just did some VERY simple editing to convert from midi-wav-mp3 with Winamp and a program called CDEX. It only took a minute or two. I'm not a MIDI editor/creator or anything...my soundcard just happened to come with the Yamaha XG software which plays midi files very nicely.

 

OK. I think this is better left to a hardware DSP - the sound quality is noticabely better using a real live synth module versus sound fonts or other PC quality samples. People with a SB Gold will argue with me of course, but I think a Sound Canvas is the best way to go.

 

I'll see if I can borrow an SC88 from a friend and use that to convert to MP3.

 

D_L

[MilesTeg]

Originally posted by Darth_Linux

I've already dumped the artwork and given it to the mappers privately . . . we should do the same with the WAV files, but without access to the games dll, I'm not sure we'll be able to use them just yet . . . . we'll know in due time.

 

I´ve already included sounds and music. Technically there is no problem with this.

 

We do run a risk with redistributing the original art, midi and wave files because they *are* copyrighted material that is to be redistributed to people in a JO Mod - certainly an infringement. But if LEC is nice enough to let us do this since they make $$ either way (on DF and JO), then it would ok for everyone.

 

Yes, we should use the files only for testing.

[Wes Janson SMR]

I'd love to be the Sound Engineer. But alas, my schedule betrays me...

[Tzar Sectus]

I haven't looked at the current SDK yet, but it's my understanding that it is just map and model editing utilities right? Nothing to alter the game code? They may not have any "official" plans to release code to the games dll, but that doesn't mean they won't do it - they just need to put the time into doing it.

 

In the meantime, we simply keep going on the maps and use weapons and enemies from JO that fit the best into the scenario. Once/if the dll code is released, we can go back and change out the JO stuff with the DF stuff.

 

In any case, don't give up hope yet - these things take a long time to happen and we have plenty of mapping to accomplish before we need to worry about the game code.

 

Darth Linux

Here's the entire deal. A few days ago the "SDK" was released which only contained some map and modelling utilities. Raven said they would release the rest of the tools at a later time (some docs, script compiler and maybe the MP source code). I just emailed a Raven programmer yesterday whether or not they would release the SP and MP codes, he said they're only planning to release the MP code. He said they don't want the SP code modified (for reasons unknown). And since they did the same with Elite Force (MP code and no SP code) and since Raven has officially said so themselves, I feel it's only natural to conclude that they'll not release that SP code. Unless we send a group of Bothan spies to retrieve it =P (perhaps a big petition would help though)

 

But then again, the source code won't be *totally* necessary. JO's weaponry can be altered to that of DK (a concussion rifle can be simulated by giving a weapon insane projectile momentum, invisible projectile sprite and fancy explosion). A Kell Dragon can be simulated by finding an NPC which only use the hands (I think there's a Gran in the npcs.cfg which is like that) and replacing him with the model and animation of a Kell dragon, and give him insane health and low speed. But some things will be impossible, for instance, we discussed some passive force powers in the other thread, those will be impossible.

 

Darn, I wish Raven would just release that blasted SP code.

 

About the music stuff. Shouldn't we find out what midi card Dark Forces was designed for? I know that around that time most of the LucasArts musicians made their music for the Roland MT-32, which I'd think is most probably the midi card DK was made for. I have a MT-32 card myself so I could do the recording if necessary.

 

By the way, there's been some discussion about this on the IRC channel, who's the project leader? Is it assumed Darth Linux is?

 

-Remi

[Tzar Sectus]

I fiddled around with Dark Forces a little and it seems I was wrong, the music is designed for General Midi.

 

-Remi

[Darth_Linux]

Originally posted by Tzar Sectus

 

 

About the music stuff. Shouldn't we find out what midi card Dark Forces was designed for? I know that around that time most of the LucasArts musicians made their music for the Roland MT-32, which I'd think is most probably the midi card DK was made for. I have a MT-32 card myself so I could do the recording if necessary.

 

By the way, there's been some discussion about this on the IRC channel, who's the project leader? Is it assumed Darth Linux is?

 

-Remi

 

MIDI Stuff - when composing you don't really shoot for a particular card - you just use the module that gives you the sounds you like. Most pros use Roland's, or Kurzweil's or Ensoniq or whatever they like. Since back in the day's of DF, most cards only did FM MIDI, it was a given the music would sound like crap.

 

The good thing about MIDI is that the better hardware you play it through, the better it sounds, and modern day synth's sound much better than the ones available back in 93 or 94. So if we use a good synth that is pretty new, we can get sounds that are better than what was available at the time the tracks were scored. . .

 

D_L

[Tzar Sectus]

Originally posted by Darth_Linux

 

MIDI Stuff - when composing you don't really shoot for a particular card - you just use the module that gives you the sounds you like. Most pros use Roland's, or Kurzweil's or Ensoniq or whatever they like. Since back in the day's of DF, most cards only did FM MIDI, it was a given the music would sound like crap.

 

The good thing about MIDI is that the better hardware you play it through, the better it sounds, and modern day synth's sound much better than the ones available back in 93 or 94. So if we use a good synth that is pretty new, we can get sounds that are better than what was available at the time the tracks were scored. . .

 

D_L

You're wrong, in the old times some companies did design their music specifically for one music card. Sierra and LucasArts made their music in two formats, GM (General Midi, which is now the standard) and MT-32. And the music was primarly made for the MT-32, the GM versions was only a port. (Sierra went the extra mile though, while LucasArts used the standard instruments of the MT-32 Sierra remapped the instruments on the MT-32 for their music) If you compare the music in for instance Indiana Jones: Fate of Atlantis, you'll notice that the MT-32 version is far superior. Unfortunately though, the MT-32 is an old sound card, no new cards is compatible and the MT-32 is very hard to get (which I why I see mine as the biggest treasure in the world )

 

-Remi

[Darth_Linux]

Originally posted by Tzar Sectus

You're wrong, in the old times some companies did design their music specifically for one music card. Sierra and LucasArts made their music in two formats, GM (General Midi, which is now the standard) and MT-32. And the music was primarly made for the MT-32, the GM versions was only a port. (Sierra went the extra mile though, while LucasArts used the standard instruments of the MT-32 Sierra remapped the instruments on the MT-32 for their music) If you compare the music in for instance Indiana Jones: Fate of Atlantis, you'll notice that the MT-32 version is far superior. Unfortunately though, the MT-32 is an old sound card, no new cards is compatible and the MT-32 is very hard to get (which I why I see mine as the biggest treasure in the world )

 

-Remi

 

Ok, let me rephrase my response so I am more clear. Back in the old days <g> when most sound cards only did FM midi, there were a few cards that did it better than most by using WaveTable - SoundScape, GS, and some others. Older DOS games actually set things up different for the different sound cards and many games used different MIDI files formats depending on which card the person had (System Shock for one). So in that sense you are correct . . .

 

Some of the older soundcards had better samples or bigger ROM chips, so of course if the MT32 has better/bigger samples than it will sound better, and that card may also have DSP features that MIDI can use like chorus/reverb that a plain jane FM synth card won't have.

 

all of that aside, if you are composing for General MIDI, you are going to use a synth that has the sounds *you* like, and hope that the end user has a decent enough piece of hardware on his end that the music can be played back somewhat correctly. I think in the old days it was presumed the music would sound like crap no matter what . . .

 

I remember the first time I heard the music for Doom through a wave table soundcard - the environment went from blah to downright creepy . . .

 

anyhow, no sense in debating too much about MIDI - if we render the songs with very good equipment, they will doubtless sound very much as their author intended them to sound.

 

D_L

[The_One]

Right, here's the deal with our webspace and forums:-

 

• I can get us pretty much unlimited space.
  
• We get the URL http://whatever.thegamingunion.com
  
• We can probably have 2 forums, a Public and Private.
  
• It would be nice if you all came and registered on the forums fist to make yourself known. Head to http://www.thegamingunion.co.uk and follow the links.
  
• No banner ads or costs or anything
  

 

That's pretty much it, once we have the fourms there sorted, discussion will be a hell of a lot easier.

 

I'll keep you posted...