Tyto Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 Ok, so I was talking with some friends at work and Star Wars, being the good topic it is came under discussion. A couple of points were made, and I wondered what you guys would make of them. 1) It could not be possible for Palpatine in the time allowed between episodes 3 and 4 to design, build, and train the crew, all in secret, for the original Death Star. 2) How come if Mace Windoo and Yoda are so great (high midichlorian counts) they can't detect a 'disturbance in the Force' when they are stood right next to a Sith Lord. (Qui-Gonn's funeral). 3) Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds was pants. Discuss. I'm not saying I agree with any of the above (although I might for the fun of the argument), but we had a fun debate about them, and I thought with all the people here, there'd be more thoughts on them. ) Tyto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutchca Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 1. Yes it could. Lets see... How much time passed between Ep3 and 4? At least enough time for Luke to grow to around 20 yrs old. So lets say about ~20 years... And it wasn't even finished. I'm sure Palpatine himself didn't design, build and train everyone on the Death Star. He had the resources of the entire Empire at his disposal. Scientist, Droid Construction crews working 'round the clock and as many clones as needed to crew it. Of course with the size of the Death star they would need to have stripped a planet or two and even a few moons to gather enough raw materials to build it but we're talking about the Empire here so that's at least concievable. (In the SW universe) 2. Patience young Padiwan. All will be made clear. According to reports, EP2 will reveal exactly how Palpatine is able to avoid detection. I hear it's rather clever. You'll slap yourself on the head and say "Oh Yeah... That Makes Sense." 3. Never played it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcow Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 Originally posted by Hutchca 1. Yes it could. Lets see... How much time passed between Ep3 and 4? At least enough time for Luke to grow to around 20 yrs old. So lets say about ~20 years... And it wasn't even finished. I'm sure Palpatine himself didn't design, build and train everyone on the Death Star. He had the resources of the entire Empire at his disposal. Scientist, Droid Construction crews working 'round the clock and as many clones as needed to crew it. Of course with the size of the Death star they would need to have stripped a planet or two and even a few moons to gather enough raw materials to build it but we're talking about the Empire here so that's at least concievable. (In the SW universe) 2. Patience young Padiwan. All will be made clear. According to reports, EP2 will reveal exactly how Palpatine is able to avoid detection. I hear it's rather clever. You'll slap yourself on the head and say "Oh Yeah... That Makes Sense." 3. Never played it...... for number two, he wore a ysalimari skin jacket to the funeral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbiesan Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 LOL, them jackets are great.. seriously though, I think one of the powers of the dark side is simply to remain hidden, even in plain sight.. since Darth Sidious is a master of the dark side he should have no problem remaining undetected while controlling his powers.. well, I guess we can throw in it's a movie so it was scripted like that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desslock Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 Originally posted by Tyto Ok, so I was talking with some friends at work and Star Wars, being the good topic it is came under discussion. A couple of points were made, and I wondered what you guys would make of them. 1) It could not be possible for Palpatine in the time allowed between episodes 3 and 4 to design, build, and train the crew, all in secret, for the original Death Star. 2) How come if Mace Windoo and Yoda are so great (high midichlorian counts) they can't detect a 'disturbance in the Force' when they are stood right next to a Sith Lord. (Qui-Gonn's funeral). 3) Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds was pants. Discuss. I'm not saying I agree with any of the above (although I might for the fun of the argument), but we had a fun debate about them, and I thought with all the people here, there'd be more thoughts on them. ) Tyto Dont know 1), 2) was answered, and 3), SW:GB is a niche game. Its a remake of the game that used the same engine.. Not much to it actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 The Sith are masters at hiding, its one of their strong suits, Yoda even says something to that effect in Episode I (it was in response to Mace's 'I do not think the Sith could have returned without us knowing', it was something like 'difficult to see, the Dark Side is). Also who says Palpatine only started working on the Death Star after Episode III?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyto Posted May 3, 2002 Author Share Posted May 3, 2002 Ok guys , thanks for answering. In response to the excellent points made... 1) I didn't mean he personnally trained the crew (heh) but still, where did the resources come from, and how could he possibly hide them, not just the Death Star, but the whole machinery of the Empire. Imagine the scene.. [interior Senate] Palpatine: I propose a new defensive stronghold, a beacon of hope in this war torn era. Yoda : Hmmm, a nice idea this is. Palpatine: Yes, and a whole fleet of ships to keep the peace. Yoda : A name have they? Palpatine: Erm, yes. [turns to aide] Yes! Yes they do, these peaceful, and I must stress this point, PEACEFUL things will be called erm [to aide] I]are you sure?[/i] yes they will be called erm Star Destroyers, and erm the erm Death Star (ahem). Everyone : Hurray! 2) Hutchca I hope your right, after all if memory serves, Vader sensed Obi Wan, but not vice versa on arriving at the Death Star. Can anyone remember? 3) No excuses, it really was rotten. I love AoE and Star Wars, but this was a cheap ill thought out cash in. I mean, the empire chopping down trees to make AT-ATs? A little more imagination please! I hope they don't make similar mistakes with Galaxies. Tyto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyto Posted May 3, 2002 Author Share Posted May 3, 2002 Originally posted by Robbiesan LOL, them jackets are great.. seriously though, I think one of the powers of the dark side is simply to remain hidden, even in plain sight.. since Darth Sidious is a master of the dark side he should have no problem remaining undetected while controlling his powers.. well, I guess we can throw in it's a movie so it was scripted like that.. No, not allowing the 'it's a movie' excuse. A film can do anything and say it's true, and that's fine. But, only if it remains true to it's own rules. It's a particular criticism that can be levelled at Star Trek TNG, it's always some never before heard of problem, solved by a never before heard of piece of technology (or bloody Wesley Crusher, which I think is probably worse!). So do what you like, but no cheating! Tyto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 I didn't mean he personnally trained the crew (heh) but still, where did the resources come from, and how could he possibly hide them, not just the Death Star, but the whole machinery of the Empire. Imagine the scene.. [interior Senate] Palpatine: I propose a new defensive stronghold, a beacon of hope in this war torn era. Yoda : Hmmm, a nice idea this is. Palpatine: Yes, and a whole fleet of ships to keep the peace. Yoda : A name have they? Palpatine: Erm, yes. [turns to aide] Yes! Yes they do, these peaceful, and I must stress this point, PEACEFUL things will be called erm [to aide] I]are you sure?[/i] yes they will be called erm Star Destroyers, and erm the erm Death Star (ahem). Everyone : Hurray! Palpatine was the absolute ruler, he could do pretty much anything he wanted, its a big galaxy. Obi Wan seemed to sense Vader since he knew he was gearing for an attack (just from his behavior in the Death Star), but Vader probably wasn't trying to hide himself. I imagine that hiding ones self in the Force is a skill, since Obi Wan managed to do it when Vader was near Tatooine...(and remember, Jedi Can sense one another from really far away, Luke could feel Vader and Vader Luke at a good distance in RotJ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyto Posted May 3, 2002 Author Share Posted May 3, 2002 At the point that he commisioned the first Death Star, he wasn't the absolute ruler. It is only in Ep4 that the senate is disolved, and the Death Star revealed as a way of keeping control of the new Planetary Governors. So it must have been started before. The evidence would also point to the Senate still having some sway before this point... "holding her is dangerous, if word of this leaked to the Senate it could generate sympathy for the Rebellion." (or similar). So, how did he pull it off? Tyto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 It was an Empire in all but name, at the very least the Emperor had control over the military and its resources. The senate, at that point, was more of an advisory council, and one which only had control in 'large' matters, the Emperor could do pretty much whatever he wanted for most things. The other thing is that he's a master manipulator and hider, he is quite adept at hiding things in plain sight, I'm sure that that had an effect. Also, who's to say it would take expesnsive materials to build the Death Star? The original thing is the design...perhaps the majority of it was made out of expendible resources Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyto Posted May 3, 2002 Author Share Posted May 3, 2002 If Galactic Battlegrounds is any indication, it was probably made out of trees and stone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char0n Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 If Dark(Sith) masters are adept at being/remaining hidden, even in "plain sight" so to speak, and considering it's effect in JK2, shouldn't "persuasion" be a Darkside/Sith power? Just thought I'd throw that onto the argument fire :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyto Posted May 3, 2002 Author Share Posted May 3, 2002 Well.... yes! I suppose the nearest we have to the effect we are alluding to is Mind Trick, which is a Light power. Hmmm.... Oh and another thing, why didn't Qui-Gon fade away into nothing when he died? Hmmm? He was a Master, hmmm? Tyto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acdcfanbill Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 if persuasion is a dark power, drain is defently a light power, w/o the healing effect of course... i mean what better way for a jedi to protect people and himself without using brute force, and not hurting anyone, drain dark jedi... or sith... or whatever... sounds light to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woad Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 Originally posted by Tyto Well.... yes! I suppose the nearest we have to the effect we are alluding to is Mind Trick, which is a Light power. Hmmm.... Oh and another thing, why didn't Qui-Gon fade away into nothing when he died? Hmmm? He was a Master, hmmm? Tyto I think I remember reading somewhere,that the whole Jedi vanishing thing (or lack there of with Qui Gon) is something Lucas says will be explained in EP II or III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faucon Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 Just read the book its already out... and remember the book makes canon not the movies. Just remember to get the R A Salvatore and not the one written for little kids published by scholastic. And reading the book doesn't make the wait anymore bearable then watching all the trailers, previous movies or reading the back of the different toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedantic Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 Originally posted by Faucon Just read the book its already out... and remember the book makes canon not the movies. Just remember to get the R A Salvatore and not the one written for little kids published by scholastic. And reading the book doesn't make the wait anymore bearable then watching all the trailers, previous movies or reading the back of the different toys. There's no way in hell I'm gonna spoil the movie by reading the book beforehand...that would be just plain stupidity on my part. Anyway, some may remember that the Death Star was Grand Moff Tarkin's pet project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrEEpaGe Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 Originally posted by Tyto Ok, so I was talking with some friends at work and Star Wars, being the good topic it is came under discussion. A couple of points were made, and I wondered what you guys would make of them. 1) It could not be possible for Palpatine in the time allowed between episodes 3 and 4 to design, build, and train the crew, all in secret, for the original Death Star. 2) How come if Mace Windoo and Yoda are so great (high midichlorian counts) they can't detect a 'disturbance in the Force' when they are stood right next to a Sith Lord. (Qui-Gonn's funeral). 3) Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds was pants. Discuss. I'm not saying I agree with any of the above (although I might for the fun of the argument), but we had a fun debate about them, and I thought with all the people here, there'd be more thoughts on them. ) Tyto The Sith have the plans for a "planet-sized battle station" that they are carrying during Episode II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zindell Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 The rebels were a small but dangerous force, They primarily picked off small imperial targets and cut off supply lines and such. A heavily garded instalation like where they would be building a death star was probably impregnable to a small rebel force with the numbers the imperials had. I think it could have been easily masked. As for the workers, most militarys would train in the soldiers in advance even before they're base or post was availible for all we know they could have been training as the death star was being built. But to most of the people they're they would have mediocre jobs that they probably could serve on any imperial ship. The only thing I could see that people would have to be trained for is Flying that massive thing and firing the planet destroyer. Anyways thats my take on it. Anybody see clerks where they talk about all the innocent wokers on the 2nd death star who were probably just hired contracters being paid to work on the death star but had no allegience to the imperials. Just some Joe Blows trying to make a living and the Rebels Blew Them up... here we go found the exact wording. A construction job of that magnitude (the second Death Star) would require a helluva lot more manpower than the Imperial Army had to offer. I bet there were independent contractors working on that thing: plumbers, aluminum siders, roofers. In order to get it built quickly and quietly, they'd hire anybody who could do the job. Do you think the average Stormtrooper knows how to install a toilet main? All they know is killing and white uniforms. All those innocent contractors were killed - casualties of a war they had nothing to do with." -Randal (Jeff Anderson), Clerks hers's a couple more for fun: "Those movies are about how the white man keeps the black man down, even in a galaxy far, far away. Now Vader, he's a spiritual brother, down with the force and all that good ****. Then this cracker Skywalker gets his hands on a lightsaber and decides he's gonna run the ****ing universe, gets a whole Klan of whites together, and they gonna bust up Vader's hood - the Death Star. And in Jedi, the most insulting installment of all, Vader's beautiful, black visage is sullied when he pull off his mask to reveal a feeble, crusty old white man! They're trying to tell us that deep inside, we all want to be white! -Hooper X (Dwight Ewell), Chasing Amy "Well Isn't That True?" - Banky (Jason Lee) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Now the Emporor is kind of a spiritual figure. He's like the pope for the dark side of the force. He's a holy man; a shaman, kind of, albeit an evil one. If the head of the Empire is a priest of some sort, then it stands to reason that the government is therefore one based on religion. Hence, the Empire was a fascist theocracy and the rebel forces were battling against religious persecution." -Randal (Jeff Anderson), Clerks. The Comic Book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrEEpaGe Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 not that this is definitely going to be the case, but arent CLONES an extremely economical and viable source of labor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.