Breakin2' Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 I was just watching Star Wars with a friend and we sort of started arguing over Obi-Wan's line "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." Having seen how the original trilogy played out, I figure he meant that he would return (in spirit form) to assist Luke in restoring peace to the galaxy. My friend, however, thought the line was stupid since Obi-Wan himself never returns. We both agree that there was really no point in Obi-Wan allowing Vader to kill him. I think that Luke still could have become a great Jedi, faced Vader, etc. had Obi-Wan not been suicidal. As a matter of fact, it probably would have been better for him. After all, he was only trained by Yoda for a brief time. So what do you all think? Did Obi-Wan allow himself to be killed for a greater good or was he merely tired of life and eager to see his old friend Qui-Gon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarWind Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 Well, in his current form, Vader was in the Dark Side of the Force. So if he died that way, the Force would destroy him, instead of keep a memory of his personality and allow it to manifest and interact with other personalities saved by the force, such as Qui Gon. So, would you rather be a 60-ish year old Jedi, or a timeless entity who can manifest itself anywhere and chat with old buddies? I'd choose the latter, and I'd definitely say that's more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaming Nut Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 What are you talking about he has no power at all he cant hurt vader. And he dosen't even seem cable of going places on command ohterwise he'd be with luke all the time not once or twice through like 4 years. I also think he was suicidal and could have atleast hurt or maybe even killed vader witha lucky shot. a half trained luke put up a better fight then a 40 year jedi knight. You want dark jedi to come back to the light side but dieing for that idea when its clear your death won't do it is stupid at best. Where dose it say only light side jedi live on no where I've hread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarWind Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 Then look harder, Nut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCanr2d2 Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 It depends on how you take the whole thing, by providing Luke the inspiration to continue to train, Obi-Wan did become more powerful that Vader could imagine, he was able to bring about the end of the Sith. A lot of things in Star Wars aren't direct, they are fulfilled in an indirect way. Don't think of it as Obi-Wan himself being the one that becomes all powerful, but being the inspiration for someone else becoming all powerful, the person who basically ends up leading the Rebellion to victory over the Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inSpiRe- Posted May 5, 2002 Share Posted May 5, 2002 When Obi-Wan sacrifices himself, he knew Luke was watching, and likewise, he new that Luke would have gotten angry. And the story continues, and Luke's hatred for Vader grows UNTIL the point that he tells luke that he is lukes father. Luke almost fell to the dark side, because vader is his father, and it got a bit personal. Without Obi-Wans sacrifise, luke probably would have turned bad, but since he already hated vader, he didnt turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 When Obi-Wan died he became one with the Force, the Force is more powerful than Vader can imagine, Obi-Wan now IS the Force, get it? Power isn't always about the ability to kick someones a$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldera Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 it isnt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 Nope, it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mima kake Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 guess so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_FinnSon Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 After TPM came out, the death of Obi-Wan has actually more meaning in my eyes. The way he smiles briefly, when he sees Luke watching the duel, gets me thinking about Qui-Gon. Maybe he thought that just like he got angry enough to beat Maul after his Master fell down, Luke would get angry enough to contiue his own journey AND probably even have a good reason to "avenge" his death(and the death of other Jedi before him). Of course the line he says before it seems to indicate directly to him becoming part of the Force(something that Dark Side users will never understand, because they lose their identity) and returning later in a ghost form, but I thought it would be really interesting from Obi-Wan's point of view to die honorably; maybe that was the moment when he finally understood in what situation Qui-Gon was and that tables had now turned around. He wanted to give a way to younger generation of Jedi. Also, I remember Behind the Magic mentioning that in revised rough draft of RotJ Obi-Wan was actually resurrected in a physical form and offered to stand at Luke's side during final Duel. Maybe Lucas had this originally in his mind as part of "becoming more powerful": in addition to giving advice to Luke from the Netherworld(a term Lucas used in that draft), he could also reborn again. So, in a sense he WAS more powerful that Vader could believe; in another rough draft of RotJ, he even appears to Vader when he's taking Luke to the Emperor and tries to turn him to the good side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaming Nut Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 I dont buy this he had to die crap. WHY did he have to die? You think that if he had lived luke would have gone na with you alive I don't feel like being jedi ummm I some how dought that would have happened. If anything luke would have been a better jedi. Also Why would he want to get luke to hate vader after all "hate leads to the dark side". And power is all about kicking ass why have it if you cant use it you may as well not have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XERXES Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 I think it was just talk in order to make Vader even more angry. But there is still the sequels...if they are going to make them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 And power is all about kicking ass why have it if you cant use it you may as well not have it. *waves his paw* Bah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-GONE Jinn Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 Nut, I'm gonna speak in your terms...Star Wars-terms... You sound like a Dark Jedi.."Power is nothing if it can't hurt people". that's crap! Real power is NOT to hurt people. Didn't Desann say something similar at the end of JKII?? Contemplate this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_FinnSon Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 I didn't exactly mean that Obi-Wan wanted to make Luke angry in a way that he would be tempted by the Dark Side, but more likely give him one more reason to continue his journey and fight againts Vader when the time comes; as a same time, it was his final "lesson" to his old padawan about true meaning of the Force. Also, if I quote the last talk Obi-Wan had with Luke in RotJ, looks like he certainly had his own doubts: Luke: There's still good in him. Ben: He is more machine now than man. Twisted and evil. Luke: I can't do it, Ben. Ben: You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again. Luke: I can't kill my own father. Ben: Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope. So, from certain point of view, Obi-Wan thought(as a not-so-good Jedi master he were) that there was no way to turn Anakin back again after all those years, but instead Luke would have to kill him. Even though he speaks about Anakin being his good friend earlier, footage from AOTC seems to give a slightly different view: Obi-Wan "kicks" Anakin around verbally many times and doesn't seem to understand the special role his padawan has in universe. Perhaps he forgot the prophecy that Qui-Gon talked about so eagerly or never believed in it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedijerm Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 Originally posted by Gaming Nut Where dose it say only light side jedi live on no where I've hread. I read somewhere that when a Jedi turns to the Dark Side he loses his soul and is torment forever after he dies. Kinda like that the you go to hell if you don't believe in Jesus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacen '77 Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Obi-wan let Vader cut him down so that Luke would have a reason to hate Vader specifically, rather than just the Empire in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakin2' Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 But doesn't hate lead to the Dark Side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulic Droma Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 I agree with you, sev707. I think that the if you strike me down line will be one of those unexplained things, if you only take the movies. Kinda like the way I see the whole midiclorians thing will pan out. Since that and Jar Jar were the main things people hated about Phantom Menace, and Jar Jar is not supposed to be on nearly as much. Maybe Lucas completely omitted the midiclorians for the next couplee of chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prowl lightstar Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 I think that Obi wan sacrifices himself specifically so that Luke, han, leia and chewie can escape the death star. We know that Obi wan has already beat anikin once (into the lava pit) he doen't need to do it again, he's got nothing to prove. I don't think vader kills kenobi, he mearly passes away, ascends to a higher plain etc. At worst this distracts vader long enuf to allow Luke et al to escape. The "become more powerful line" is open to interpretation. Have you noticed how the door closes between vader and the hanger, blocking vader from luke et al. Maybe this is Kenobi acting through the force. What do you guys want? A neon ghost apearing to press the button? If Kenobi hadn't ascended he couldn't have told luke in his x-wing to use the force, therefore the first death start wouldn't have been destroyed. Power can be interpreted differently. Some say George bush is the most powerful man on earth. It's not because he can kick everyones a$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekken Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 Originally posted by Lord_FinnSon So, from certain point of view, Obi-Wan thought(as a not-so-good Jedi master he were) that there was no way to turn Anakin back again after all those years, but instead Luke would have to kill him. Hmmm, here's another way of looking at this. Obi-Wan said that Vader 'killed' Luke's father (Anakin), so maybe what he was really saying was that Luke had to 'kill' Vader so that Anakin would be restored. Man, this is getting too deep. I think I'll go back to ST:TOS...... *Dammit, Jim, I'm a doctor, not a Jedi...* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-GONE Jinn Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 I disagree... The reason that people DO say that G.W.Bush is the most powerful man on the planet is because he HAS the power to kick everyone's ass... and if you ask me, he's not the right guy to handle the power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 more n more of our imports are coming from outside the country i have neva exectuded a guilty .... i mean innocent man says it all for me ..... americans .... get rid of him ... as an ambassador for yer country hes about as good as Prince Philip (queens hubby 4 those non-brits) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedijerm Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 George W. Bush is the best President since Reagan , Hes the man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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