Details About Some Patch Changes

[ChangKhan]

Okay, the patch info doesn't go into the details about what was changed in saber combat for the patch. For those of you that are insterested, here's the deal:

 

In general, some work was put into making sabers more likely to hit - both the other players and their lightsaber. This was not so much a problem with strong attacks because they are so long and slow, but often medium and fast attacks would miss or pass through.

 

Idle saber damage (i.e.: damage not done while in an attack animation) was toned down to reduce the number of seemingly "random" kills.

 

Parries, deflections, reflections, broken parries and knockaways were put into MP (these were in SP but were not in MP).

 

Saber lock frequency was slightly increased so that it could happen in the heat of combat.

 

Hand dismemberment was put in to MP, also, the hand-dismemberment "win" result of saberlocks that is in SP was put in MP. It only happens if the loser of the saber lock was low on health anyway.

 

Light Stance:

The foward lunge attack (swing from the bottom up) was toned down in damage just a little bit because it was quite often a 1-shot kill and could be exploited fairly easily. It still does a lot of damage, just not enough to kill in one hit.

 

Medium Stance:

Medium was not meant to be the whirling dervish style, so it was made so that, if you do the same exact move over and over again, you cannot chain as many attacks as if you mix it up a little. "Spinning top" fighters should use fast style. This is the *only* change to medium style.

 

Strong Stance:

Strong attacks were slowed down some to match SP, as was player movement while doing a strong attack. Strong attacks also do more of their damage at the middle of the swing and less at the start and end. This was necessary to give the strong attacks a more realistic feel (because the anims are so long that sometimes you would get a somewhat accidental looking kill). But strong attacks were also given the ability to chain, like in SP. If you do an attack and then switch up the direction of the attack by 45 degrees, you will be able to chain into another attack. Also, the strong overhead jump attack was made to not do as much damage once the saber is in the ground and you can no longer turn during this attack (like the fast style's lunge attack). This was the single most exploited move in MP and required this much heavy tweaking.

 

The back-flip off a wall/opponent was changed into a double-tap. This was mostly done because it was frustrating to try to get over a small lip and end up back-flipping off of it. In combat, you can still kick someone and knock them down with this move, but you have to do a double-tap. Also, it was noticed that the strong style was completely vulnerable to this move because of the long wind-up time of it's attacks. A somewhat skilled jump-kicker could always knock down a strong style user (often you could not see the kick coming). So the jump-kick was made to not *knock down* a strong user who is in the middle of a swing. It still does damage and you still flip off them.

 

Regardless of what you feel is different or other posters say, these are really the *only* changes to saber combat...

 

We tested the new saber tweaks pretty heavily and only stopped when we felt that the three styles were well balanced with each other.

 

Someone else mentioned that they already found the g_jediVmerc cvar (I don't know how!)... to quell and speculation about it, this is a server cvar that makes it so that clients joining a game must choose to be a jedi (who uses the saber and force powers) or a non-jedi (a mercenary, who uses guns and pickups). It is *not* a supported feature and makes no claims at being bug-free or a balanced game feature. Use it at your own risk. Note that you have to set it on the command line (or, I think, use the console's "set" command) to get it to show up on your console.

 

The server browser was updated to include 5 possible new icons next to the server names. One is a lock and indicates a server that requires a password. The second icon will either be a force icon with a half-faded circle with a slash symbol (meaning some force powers are disabled, but not all) or a force icon with a large red "X" over it (meaning all force powers are disabled). The last slot will show a saber for saber-only games or a saber and a gun for Jedi vs. Merc mode.

 

That's all I can think of now.

[TheDarkSide]

As always, Changkhan, thanks for the information!

 

Your post clears up some confusion as to what was changed in the saber system....I love the interaction you guys have with the community!

 

Thanks for all your hard work.

 

TDS

 

P.S. Don't let the whiners get to you. Look at all the polls on this board about whether or not the patch was a good thing, and you'll see by far it's well-liked.

[JSM]

I played about three hours worth of duel mode with the patch last night. I didn't have any one to connect with, so i called up a few bots on the new Yavin IV duel level. I must say i was impressed with the new combat, the bots also seemed a little more intelligent and tactical. I had been completely avoiding MP because the saber duels were not nearly as good or fun as SP. But the patch has fixed everything i didn't like.

[Zek]

Will full support for Jedi vs Mercenary mode be supported eventually? And is this a modifier for current gametypes or a gametype all its own?

 

Also, you mentioned an icon for partial force power disabling... Will this be supported without some serious console knowledge(and will it be possible to see what is and isn't disabled before joining)?

[Nill the Mean]

Hand dismemberment in normal MP? Sweet...

Especially HUGE thanks for fixing us up with those symbols in the multiplayer menu. No more joining servers with a password by accident! Excellent.

I presume the Jedi Vs. Merc mode wil be in a future patch... I sure hope so. I also really hope that the fists make it into a future patch... cause the stun baton feels a bit silly.

Sounds like you guys put a lot of work into balancing the three stances, and from what I have played so far all stances have indeed become more usefull.

Thanks for all the info man... very usefull.

Thank you very much Raven, you are the shizit.

 

P.S. I suddenly had the biggest fear this morning... I hope we don't get put aside for SoF2 updates in the future, but I'm (almost) sure that won't be the case.

[power_ed]

Thx Changkhan for clearing up some issues..

 

 

anyways: what happend to the Morgan Ghost skin?

did you take it out, and if so, why?

 

ps: i really luv this patch, nice work :-)

 

 

::/Ed

[The Truthful Liar]

I LOVE YOU RAVEN!!

[D.L.]

From what I've heard of the patch it sounds great (that lip back flip was very annoying in SP esp in the heat of a battle so good job on that)

 

Just a quick question, what levels are included!? I know the titles but what is actually in them?

 

I've haven't gotten home to install the pattch yet and I probably won't be able to do it tonight as I have a load of projects to complete

[Fyunch Click]

I for one appreciate the quick turn-around.

 

You guys are no Sierra. Thank God! ( no more visions of Tribes 2 flying through my head!)

 

Great work on the game. I look forward to your future stuff.

 

LoS- Fyunch Click

Captain, CTF FF, Sabers only TDM.

[ChangKhan]

Originally posted by Zek

Will full support for Jedi vs Mercenary mode be supported eventually? And is this a modifier for current gametypes or a gametype all its own?

 

Also, you mentioned an icon for partial force power disabling... Will this be supported without some serious console knowledge(and will it be possible to see what is and isn't disabled before joining)?

 

Jedi v. Merc is not supported, I don't know of any plans to make it official.

 

Partial force power disabling is also not supported (though an (unsupported) dedicated server admin can easily toggle certain force powers on and off with the "forcetoggle" console command). If you do a serverinfo and want to do the bitmath, you can look at the g_forcePowerDisable value and try to figure out which powers are disabled. Otherwise, you just have to join the server and see for yourself.

[TheDarkSide]

more information on force toggle please? :)

[V-tecc]

Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]

The back-flip off a wall/opponent was changed into a double-tap. This was mostly done because it was frustrating to try to get over a small lip and end up back-flipping off of it.

 

Why not make it an option in the setup menu?

So that people can choose what suites them best.

 

V-tecc

 

PS: Thank you for a great game!

[WD_ToRMeNt]

For Chang...

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51276

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51158

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51273

[Yu-Law]

I agree, this would be much better as an option.

[-=[M@ximus]=-]

when will we get the server ded win32 patch?

we have servers that are stuck now till it is released

 

also why cut all the swings in Medium, in all books, and films the Jedi Twist and turn, granted that maybe there was too much

 

but at least give us one or 2 back, cause medium too me, is just like heavy stance now, all u do is swing step swing step

 

not swing spin, move away and attack again

 

bah is all i can say too what u done too the Meduim

and i still aint impressed with the red DFA it still spammed, yes u cant move, but it still happens all too oftern in the few servers i have been in!

[Nill the Mean]

Errrg... my brain is really starting to hurt in an attempt to understand this criticism.

Let me put it this way:

I have played JK2 almost every day for at least an hour a day since the game it was released here in Holland (26th I think).

At least 70% of people I played against used red all the time. They would reach the top of the list by DFA 60% of the time.

When I fought most of these people, I owned them because they never changed their tactics in mid combat. Only a few people who changed styles and used more medium than heavy gave me trouble. How can I beat the person on the top of the list so easy? I have more skill, simple. Now that DFA and red have been toned down, lots of people start complaining. Not suprising when so many people relied on it religiously. About time they got used to trying something else.

People who go in swinging are easy to beat because they are open for attack ALL THE TIME. Just block until the person kills himself on your saber or adjusts his tactic.

You can't say that medium is nerfed... it is more refined as far as I can tell. It still has the spins but you have to alternate your direction more to get it. If you want constant spinning, use light. That is what it is for (sort of). It certainly isn't step in and swing because you can attack quickly multiple times. Up to four-five hits! At a speed only a bit slower than light! I explained this on the forum at least four times so far so I'm not going to do it again, figure it out for yourself.

You can still kill someone and only have taken thee swipes at them. It just takes more practice now.

And what is all this move away stuff? Just block if he isn't using heavy...

[ChangKhan]

Originally posted by -=[M@ximus]=-

when will we get the server ded win32 patch?

we have servers that are stuck now till it is released

 

also why cut all the swings in Medium, in all books, and films the Jedi Twist and turn, granted that maybe there was too much

 

I'll ask James about the dedicated 1.03 build.

 

You can still do spins in medium, but if you try to do the same spin over and over again you're only going to get one or two. If you mix it up, you can get more.

[Genocide52]

THANKS FOR THE HARD WORK RAVEN!! YOU MADE A GREAT GAME! I just downloaded the patch and I'm off to try it out. I'm sure it made the game better and you had a reason to do everything (wish I could make a statement about multiplayer, but I can't play multiplayer because of my school's damn firewall ). Thanks again Raven!

[-=[M@ximus]=-]

cheers m8 i would be greatfull as if where going to switch , we realy need it badly

cause we cant get them up and running

i dont alter em, i am the person who controls what goes on em, and what gets changed, so i am askin for my "boss" u may say

 

if u could let me know asap i would be real greatfull

icq=33878431

maximuss@blueyonder.co.uk

 

are servers are sitting there anticipating as one could say

 

only other problem i have, force not much. as i said u made absorb more rounder

 

just decrease the ammo, i am a CTF'er big time, i come from UT, HL , Q3 thats the only thing that i think will destroy the CTF world =(

less ammo means actualy less fighting, i play too modes as well

NF sabs CTF, Force sabs CTF, Weapons NF CTF, and Force Weapons CTF, the ammo is needed!

 

cheers again m8ty

[dansolo]

Thanks for the new patch, Raven.

 

I'd wager to say that most people who are bitching about it are mourning the loss of their "flying DFA 1-hit kill" move...

 

I understand it is really difficult to get the saber balance issue resolved while still including the elements of the game that everyone likes. That said, I think you've done well.

 

Players will eventually adapt to the new saber styles, and I think we'll get a much more enjoyable MP game in the end. Remember when JO first came out? Everyone called the saber combat chaotic. But then they learned how it worked and stopped complaining.

 

Cheers,

-ds

[Kypt]

Are you sure thats all you changed? Maybe an accident somewhere? The strong backward special is now able to kill 100 health 100 shield w/ one shot... I don't recall that before, but it migth be my oversight.

[Kreuzader]

Thanks Raven! I'm extremely happy with this new patch... now, if only someone could port the client to Linux *cough*

[Dvlos]

See, thanks Raven, you want to know why people are into such heated debates over a patch? Because they love SW and they love this game... so thanks.. don't forget about us, I know you got SoF2 coming (I'm getting that).. patch us, make expansion packs... give us some love... heh..

[-=[M@ximus]=-]

Man love aint allowed in this thread

j/k

 

NEED.......1...3.......WIN....32......patch.......please...e..e..e.eeeeees

 

/me sobs in corner ;(

[-wT-]

I registered to this board just to read the topics, but I just gotta reply now, and as Raven ppl seem to be here I hope I could get some answers.

 

So, the patch is good... though is it just me or have you decreased the range of the middle style saber?

I don't want to complain, it's your game afterall and I think it's just pathetic when you try to please 100 000 ppl and 50 000 of 'em say "Correct the mistakes you stupid *beep*'s" after you make a patch for 'em.

 

But I still don't know if it's just me, but after dueling with a bots for some time, I miss atleast half more of my swings? Like, with the swing from another side to the another (either strafe + mouse 1), they always seem to go over the enemy, and the good way to hit the enemy would be to swing from down to up, but it's quite useless as my character always runs too far from the enemy without I getting any hits in. Ofcourse these all could be avoided by practicing and making use of the walk button, but I'd still like to hear some of your opinnions?

 

And the second thing that got me really pissed while I was trying out the bots after I installed the patch... those god damn bots are all cowards! It just got me pissed that ALL the time the bots just walk away from me, then quickly make a small move towards me and then running away again... it's a god damn pain in the butt to try out the saber attacks if you can't even get a change to hit the enemy!

Ofcourse this can be just me, but it really did seem weird, though I'm not sure if this was the case even before the patch.

And while I'm at the bots, some dueling levels seemed to have abit weird ways for the bots to move (Although I don't know how the bots decide how to move... by looking at predefined waypoints or something like that, or simple AI, or whatever), like the new jedi training place: When below the glass top, the bots just kept jumping... boing boing boing boing boing boing and so on

And then the place with the imperial shuttle, with a Reborn, if I was standing next to the nose of the shuttle, the enemy was just rolling below the nose of the shuttle... rolled towards me, then back, then again towards me, then back and so on...

 

Hmmm... this turned out to be a nice little bug report/FAQ-for-wT, but I hope you could answer some of the questions ChangKhan?