Comparison of "assfighting" to UT

[ShockV1.89]

I've played Unreal Tournament for a long time now, got very good at it. I've seen just about all there is to see there, and I'm seeing a glaring comparison between a certain technique that some use here in JK2 and in UT.

 

For those of you who dont know, there is a weapon in UT called the Shock Rifle. When one fires the primary, a blue laser shoots out, instant hit. Secondary launches a slower moving ball of energy. However, when one strikes this blue ball with the primary laser, the ball explodes in a huge purple shockwave, and can kill virtually anything in one hit, or at least send them to the other side of the map, literally.

People use this. Its very easy to do, its an almost instant kill, and it can be done from a distance, unlike the backslash/stab.

 

Its one of the most commonly used techniques in the game, and if you check ngStats, a lot of really good players have shock frags that almost double their next highest frag count (usually rockets or minigun).

 

Now my point is this. People whined and moaned about shock whores briefly, before they learned ways around them, learned to do it themselves, and so on. Now barely a minute passes in a match without someone doing it, and nobody says a word. Its just part of the game. What is to say that the same wont happen here?

 

We have a precedent for a supposedly "cheap" move, which was integrated into the game, used, bypassed, and is now an every game thing. I suspect the same will happen with the backslashes. (although my sense of pride dictates that I not look like an ass, runnig backwards at someone swinging at stuf I cant see.)

 

I dont want to start a flame thread, I just wanted you critics to see that this is not the first time something like this has popped up. (and yes, it can get REALLY bad. Ask a UT veteran about a clan match of ThornsV2.. )

 

ShockV1.89

[MrCrusher]

I agree, unfortunately it takes time for this to play out. So we just have to put our waders on and slough around the forums for the next couple of weeks until it washes down stream.

 

...or the moderators start a new forum called "Why I really hate what I hate...."

[subedii]

IIRC the shock combo was good but was unwieldy because of the fact that you either had to stay completely still to do it, or have very good aim. Most people I knew prefered the other weapons. I also don't recall people really spamming it, or complaining about it (although admittedly I joined the community a little late, just before the last patch / update pack).

[Desslock]

The reason this combo blew off in UT was because it took skill to execute it, rather than backstab does.

[LooNBB]

People running around with their butts flaring trying to stick their saber in someone is GAY.

 

There is NO comparison with UT...

[Tawana]

The Shock Rifle Combo isn't as whored as the Translocator is in CTF. That's why I pretty much left UT, because all anyone does is Trans spam around the map. Then theres the auto-shoots, quite prevalent in CTF InstaGib, my mode of choice. CSHP is trash and easy to get around =/

 

I can't wait until UT 2003, we should get a demo at the end of the month, should be great

 

/me conditions GF3 for lotsa work

[jmcdavel]

God I remember the translocator craziness. ugh.

[ShockV1.89]

lol Yeah, trans is spammed but the shock rifle is actually the counter spam to it. Fire a combo at the puck, and they gib. Its great.

 

Anyway, LoonBB, your post is ignored, as your attitude clearly shows you to be too immature to partake in an intelligent discussion.

 

I didnt run into many aimbots, but then again, I played mostly on CTF. Aimbotters are mostly concerned with personal gain, not teh good of your team. (unless you count Face)

I often got called a cheater because of good aim, though. Some people have aim that is positivley unreal, Tawana, so you may not have been getting cheated.

 

The combo in UT really didnt take much skill, imo. It was one of the easiest things one could do. Just stand in one place or run in a straight line, fire seondary, then immediatley hold primary fire. As long as you dont move your mouse (which isnt hard) then you'll hit it. Ask any UT player, they'll tell you its simple. Doing it on the move is hard, though, not many people did it tht way.

 

ShockV1.89

[Zek]

The shock combo takes a lot of skill to do it quickly and reliably. Good players using it actually got to where they are with practice. Backstab takes maybe 30 seconds of practice and you can backstab with the best of them; not only does it look ridiculous, it's overpowered and just screws up games in general. Nothing that easy to spam should be so effective.

[digl]

Originally posted by LooNBB

People running around with their butts flaring trying to stick their saber in someone is GAY.

 

There is NO comparison with UT...

It's great to see people that read and understand threads...

[Lord Sokar]

In the world of 'Unreal', perhaps this is part of how things work. People shooting blue balls from a distance to kill everything. Not much different that having really powerful det packs with a remote.

 

However, in the world of Star Wars, it's been pretty well established that Jedis DON'T WALK AROUND BACKWARDS IN HOPES OF STABING SOMEONE FOR THAT 'QUICK KILL'.

[Chastan]

BATMAN!!! BATMAN!!! NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA BATMANNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

**HIJACKS THREAD**

[Solo4114]

I played a lot of UT back in '99 and '00. I played CTF exclusively (I've never been a fan of DM, really). And honestly, I never noticed this stuff. I didn't play any organized clan matches, and I did see people use the move, but not spam it.

 

In my experience, the rocket launcher, flak cannon, and sniper rifle were my babies. I had a friend who got REALLY good with the ripper. I mean, this guy was like a pool shark with that thing.

 

Honestly, though, the shock rifle never did much for me. That said, if it became "accepted" to simply use an easy killing method, that would kind of irk me.

 

There is, however, a key difference. In UT, the game was structured around fast paced kills. Even with the other weapons, usually any fight would be over in a matter of seconds. You either gibbed the guy, or he gibbed you. Or maybe it took you three shots. Regardless, that was how gameplay worked in that game. Run, gun, and pray.

 

JK2 is FAR more complex than that. We have force powers, lightsabres, AND guns. Because of that, we have games and fighting that takes a bit longer.

 

Honestly, if people spammed the repeater or the flechette cannon in a guns only game, I wouldn't care. Sure they're easy moves, but it's a gun game. I accept that.

 

When you throw sabres into the mix, though, things change for me. A sabre should not be a one-hit kill weapon, unless ALL hits are kills. Or at least all locationally significant hits (IE: if you stab my toe, I shouldn't die).

 

Plus, look at how the rest of the game is structured currently. DFA was nerfed. Heavy stance was nerfed. Light stance was beefed up. Medium stance was...well...mostly left alone, but tweaked so you couldn't just spin ad nauseum (as it should be). AND blocking was SERIOUSLY beefed up.

 

All this tells me that the backstab was never INTENDED to be played that way, in the current patch. Plus, we've got ChangKhan's admission that he thought the backstab was being fixed in the patch, but the coder never got around to it.

 

This move is the exception to the rest of gameplay. It just doesn't belong in its current form. As they used to say on Sesame Street, "One of these things is not like the other."

 

In that sense, I think there will always be a vocal portion of the community that condemns the move as cheap and lame and generally unacceptable.

 

Plus, it's NOT fun to play against. I went on servers last night and found mostly assmasters playing. Let me tell you, it took me, oh, MAYBE 3 minutes for me to say, "The hell with this...what's the point?" And to switch to a new server. Unfortunately, this move is becoming more and more prevalent.

 

You see one guy use it on a server, then EVERYONE starts using it because they feel it's the only way to counter the one guy, or they figure they want to get fast kills too.

 

It's possible for me to beat an ass master a fair amount of the time (or at least drive them off me) if I simply kick them to death (BOOT TO THE HEAD!). But when it's an entire server of people doing nothing but the backstab...well, you can count me out, man. That just bores the crap out of me.

[Star ReaVeR]

I played alot of UT, when it became filled with shockers, it was the gayest game of all time imo

 

ok over n out

[LooNBB]

It is really simple guys... Ass Spamming is not the same as UT.

 

Get over it. Go Away!

[Spider AL]

when it's an entire server of people doing nothing but the backstab...well, you can count me out, man. That just bores the crap out of me.

 

Hear hear! Very boring, must be fixed, Raven, take note!

 

Ass Spamming is not the same as UT.

 

Well, it sort of is the same, in that so-called "shock-whores" tend to use very little except the shock rifle, and some of them have become very skilled with said shock rifle as a consequence. I mean, I'm excellent at the backstab. No, really. I can do it without thought now, and I don't have to (and never have) run around backwards. But, and here's the but of buts: It's overpowered. If every sabre strike killed in one hit, it'd be MORE BALANCED. Then, people would use the sabre in all sorts of ways, and gunners would become more skilled in avoiding the sabre. I'd like that as it'd be the same as 1.02.

 

But now, the backstab is BY FAR the most effective move in the game. No other move rivals it for damage or potential usefulness in a Force game. If such a move exists, it forces people to use it to defeat other people, and this has reduced the entire JO game to a backstab-heavy fest.

 

Sabre combat should be rich and interesting, not reduced to one move. Even I, the uber-gunner, declare this.

[ShockV1.89]

Originally posted by LooNBB

It is really simple guys... Ass Spamming is not the same as UT.

 

Get over it. Go Away!

 

Ohhhhhhhhh, well, LooNBB has spoken! He says its not the same as UT, so it MUST be true, right? After all, we need no justification from him, his word is proof enough!

 

Ass.

 

I played on a FFA server last night where ass spamming was prevalent, and I agree that it should be curbed a little bit. However, I dont think it's an entirely pressing issue. After all, even though the main ass spammer (everyone else only did it a little) was on top of the scoreboard, there were snickers from everyone else about how he got there. It really was more like his name was on the top of the board, but he got no respect for it, like others might by using less spammy techniques.

 

ShockV1.89

[Spider AL]

Go Away!

Ass.

 

Can't we all just get along? There's no need for any of this.

 

(edit)

It really was more like his name was on the top of the board, but he got no respect for it

 

Hmm, almost nobody gives a winner any respect, regardless of his methods. Sure, there are some fawning types, but they mostly just want to butter the winner up, on the offchance that he/she'll show the fawner some technique or other. After five years of Quake, Quake II, Jedi Knight, HL TFC, UT and now JO, I can say with assurance, that in my experience, being a winner is just a case of laughing at the insults, ignoring the fawners and playing to have fun.

 

Let's face it, the serious and honest players, when they want to appreciate someone else's skill, will simply say "pld" or "gg mate" at the end of the match.

(/edit)

[Maugan]

I think the problem that myself and many others have with the 'ass move' is not its balance. Yeah, it is a powerfull move, so what. Other moves are powerfull to.

 

The thing that annoys me is that it makes the game look so terrible. It is just beyond my limits of stupidity to think that 2 jedis, masters of fighting that have spent their entire lives training, will end up spending half their time charging backward at their enemy. Or, run up in an amazing advance, only to turn around and press their but into their enemies saber right when they get close. It just looks so idiotic it blows my mind.

 

I have no problems with one move being better than another. I do have a problem with the best move in the game looking idiotic. If there is going to be a move that people will want to use all the time, the least they could do is make it so that move looks good.

 

In most games, 'bend over' means 'I'm about to kill you.' In JKII 'bend over' means 'please kill me.'

[MAXIMUS2111]

Well i still play UT....I can pull off the Shock combo pretty easily

It really depends on your crosshairs style...i just use a dot

Only time i really use it is from a distance & into a room full of ppl....but only if I dont have a REDEEMER!

 

I prefer the green pulse gun to the blue

 

I love to use the FLAK CANNON...its just so visceral, plus the flak bounces around corners

 

The Minigun is nice but not very accurate

 

The sniper rifle is good..i used to run around & nail no scope headshots

 

My all time fav is to cap someone with just a pistol & take it from them & run around with double pistols...ive stood toe to toe with minigunners & dropped them with the alt fire of double pistols.

 

In every game there "blank whores" fill in the blank with what ever technique or what ever

In Quake3 - Rockets

In DFLW - FN MAGS & PRONEJUMPIN

& so on & so forth

 

I say adept & overcome

Bitchin gets ya know where cept labeled as a whiner

 

You grip, i pull

You DFA, i sidestep & slash

You come running at me with yer ass first, im gonna shoot you in it

[Spider AL]

Yeah, it is a powerfull move, so what. Other moves are powerfull to.

 

There are no moves as powerful as the backswing. Just so you know. Not even the most powerful guns dispatch someone in one shot, the backswing dispatches anyone standing close enough in one hit. Therefore the game now consists of endless backswinging. There's no point in having the force powers, the sabre moves, the other stances and the many guns... as long as shoving people over and backswinging them is this powerful.

 

But everyone knows this now and the backswing fix is almost a foregone conclusion if there IS to be another patch at all. I think the important thing to concentrate on is asking Raven for ammo consumption to be restored in FFA and CTF, and the restoration of the Darksider as real rivals to us Lighties.

[LooNBB]

It is NOT the same thing...

not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not

[RiverWalker]

a 2 year old's arguements aren't going to get very far...

 

no, they aren't the same, no duh. but a comparison can stil be valid

 

I haven't played much the last week, I have seen someone running backwards at me once... it was like, WTF?? he looked like an idiot, and I still kicked his ass,

[ShockV1.89]

Spider, its not one hit that kills. Its multiple hits that kill. The backslash hits several times as it passes. If not aimed properly, or if one jumps quick enough, you can come away with only being hit once, which is only above average damage, not one-hit kill.

 

It needs tweaking, but its probably a small tweak.

 

LooNBB has spoken, though, his word is law! Bow your heads, infidels!!! He needs no justification! What he says, go's!!!!!

 

ShockV1.89

[LooNBB]

Thank you Shock for Understanding the weight of my word... You are free to go now.

 

Guards!