Master Cyphadeous?

[P33K@J3W]

Cyphadious = Sidious

 

Sidous = Palpanine

 

Palpanine = Changling

 

Why?

 

Did ya see Zam Wheelel die? - See the true form of the Changling - Darkskinned and wrinkly - Just like Sidous in 4,5, and 6. Te Jedis do not recognise Palpanine cuse he looked al wrinkly and **** when he was a Jedi Master. He faked his Death before episode 1 (right before) and started the clone army and his attempt to take over the senate. In Episode 2 he compleates both goals - he has ammased a clone army to controll and gotten full controll of the republic. He also has ammased a robotic army as his Sith counterpart. All has gone according to plan. He has two large scale armys at his disposal.

 

Sorry for the SPELINKING I was in a hurry.

[SharaFett]

just curious- who was that ostrage-looking jedi on the jedi council in ep:1? was he of the same species as the people raising the clone army? if so, it may have been him

[Dark4ces]

Maybe Palp has a brother or even better, a twin brother that has not been disclosed yet...

 

 

Who was Sidious' Master when he was the apprentice? Darth Bane?

 

 

D4

[Funkyhead]

As said before there are wholes in anyones theories

 

I personally thonk that Sidious and Palpatine are the same person

It could be explained that the jedi council (epecially anakin, mace and yoda) do not discover him in ep2 because he is not in personal contact with them (always some kind of distance between the senate and the jedi council)

 

but mace and yoda talked about something which is disturbing their feelings (eg the dark master)

 

I am also agreeing with some of you who say that sifo dias name was only used by the sith in order to order the clone army ... etc.

 

in which way sifo dias died is probably not too important

 

(sorry about my writing but i am german native speaker)

 

greets funkyhead

[Nebelwerfer_]

okay, for all you people thinking sidious and palpy are different people, now hear this: they are played by the same actor, case closed. I dont think lucas did this to save money... they are the same character. THe only other possible explanation for this would be that palpatine is a clone of sidious, but I cant see the logic in that. As for syfa dious.... blarg! It all was making sense until mace and yoda said he was part of the jedi counsil till he died. It sounded at first like he was just sidious in disguise, but yoda and mace thwarted that idea. Sypha Dious was either

 

1. Darth Maul... no wait, darth maul wastn't part of the jedi counsel

 

2. Some jedi master that sidious killed and took his identity to fool the kaminoans.

 

3. Or this... Maybe Sidious was part of jedi counsel for a while then faked his own death then renamed himself Sidious after making a deal with the kaminoans.. oh wait, they would recognise that him and Senator palpatine from naboo were the same dude. (same actor... to all those thinking they are different people).

 

hey, but then again, they never figured out that clark kent and super man were the same person. So it has to be #2 or else Lucas got himself into some deep doo doo dis time.

[Ewok Hunter]

Sidious is Palpatine

Sifa Dyas cannot be sidious because Palpatine was a respect member of the senate for years.

[Nebelwerfer_]

Sidious is Palpatine

Sifa Dyas cannot be sidious because Palpatine was a respect member of the senate for years.

 

 

Are you talking to yourself? That's what we've been saying all along, thanks for your input... NOT!

[Naphtali]

I never thought of it that way, that Doukoo could be trying to get rid of Sidious by warning Obiwan and the jedi. Even telling him his name.

 

EP 3 as lucas said the theme will revolve around

THE DESTRUCTION OF THE JEDI

[pud1]

Ok here's my 2 cents:

 

Palpatine is Darth Sidious.

Count Dooku is Darth Tyrannus.

Apparently Sith have nicknames along with their past true names.

 

Count Dooku and Sidious apparently dont communicate much or dooku is trying to betray Sidious because Dooku tells obi-wan of sidious being in-charge of the republic and senate(Palpatine) and Dooku also didnot know of the plans for the clone troopers (he said it "It doesn't seem possible, How could the jedi come up with a army so quickly") OR.... he was playing both sides in saying he didnt know how and the rest of his people: Bank Clan, Neimodians, Techno Union...don't know that he is (Darth Tyrannus in the sith) excpept for Jango Fett.

 

So really Tyrannus Made Separist Union so he could have a huge Army to go to war against the Jedi.

So really Palpatine/Sidious/Sifa Dyas-believed dead jedi master ordered clone troopers ten years ago before TPM. And now got the emergency powers to use the clones that obi-wan found. To fight the war against Dooku/Tyrannus's army.

So in due time Palpatine will reveal he is Sidious and call himself Emperor and his clone troopers will turn to the Empire and hunt down the Jedi. With the help of fallen jedi Anakin/Vader.

 

Or im all wrong Or Lucas backed himself into a corner

 

But I think im pretty close.

 

Sidious and Sifa-Dyas sound too close to not be same person. I guess he is Palpatine and he has enough dark power to cloud all-jedi's mind for the jedi NOT to see him as a sith and even more NOT to see him as old Jedi Master Sifa-Dyas believed Dead...

[Harvester]

Sifo-Dyas is a separate person entirely from Palpatine/Sidious.

 

We're told that he was killed ten years earlier so we can safely assume that the Jedi Council and Obi-Wan knew Sifo-Dyas to some degree or other.

 

Since Kamino is such a remote system, with little or no contact with outsiders, it would be simple enough for Palpatine, Dooku or someone on their side to masquerade as the dead Jedi and place an order for an army of clones. Perhaps Sifo-Dyas himself was in league with the dark side and ordered the clone army, only to be killed later by Palpatine? With the resources available to Palpatine as a Sith Lord, financing such an endeavour would also be trivial.

 

After all, Sifo-Dyas isn't around to answer questions, is he?

[pud1]

cough cough http://www.jedinet.com/prequels/episode-ii/factions.asp cough

[Naphtali]

If Doukoo does have his own agenda then it was to form the sepratist movement to drive out the sith, however the jedi likely wouldn't approve of him battling against the senate so it would be wise to leave.

It sounds like that could be possible, in that once he gained allies,like the trade federation he found out about the sith lord sidious then he could of purposely pushed himself to the darkside to find out his schemes.

 

also you guys hsould read on the prelude to AOTC official book, t give more info to AOTC plot

[RichDiesal]

Ah... but perhaps it is instead Palpatine telling Dooku to create a seperatist movement in order to GET him emergency powers in the first place and allow him to take control!

 

If you look at all of it as a grand deception by Palpatine, it makes much more sense. He's just sitting back, letting his plans come to fruition, year after year.

 

That would also explain why Dooku had the Seperatists make the plans for the Death Star and then took them himself and gave them to Palpatine.

[pud1]

2 things I dont know for sure is

Were the Clone Troopers really made for the republic to use for the war, or where they made to be Palpatine's soldiers and tell the kamino people that the clones are for the republic, but really for Palpatine's empire. I'm just thinking Dooku erased the history and map of Kamino so that the Jedi or anyone wouldnt find it so that the kaminoans wouldnt tell a jedi that it's made for the republic, but in reality Palpatine/Sidious said that, B/C he cant say its for the empire to kill everyone. hehe

 

Also is Sifa Dyas Sidious/Palpatine? when he was good and a jedi master in the Council and faked his death to turn to the sith, or was he a jedi master that died at the hands of Palpatine/Sidious so maybe he really had connections with Kamino people and Palpatine used his identity to get clones for him to use 10 years later when he'll need them.

[thelegalbeagle]

The Clonetroopers were ordered by Dooku/Tyranus posing as Sifa-Dyas after Sifa-Dyas' death. Tyranus would know that alerting the Kaminoans that it was the Jedi that were ordering them would ensure secrecy. Kamino is, after all, on the Outer Rim. He would also, no doubt, have said that no contact with Coruscant should be made, the troops remaining on Kamino until a Jedi came for them. They were not ordered for the Republic, but would be used by the Republic as Palpatine planned to agitate a separatist movement headed by his apprentice that would necessitate his being given emergency powers by the Senate. Lo and behold, at exactly that time, a clone army becomes available ordered by - wait - a Jedi master. Noone would suspect anything other than that Sifo-Dyas, around the time of his death, obviously had a glimpse of the future using the Force and ordered the clones, dying before he managed to tell the Jedi Council.

 

And as an aside, on the same topic of long term planning, Palpatine is already planning the Death Star for the point on the future when he dissolves the Senate:

 

"How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?"

"Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battlestation."

[Blenny]

Firstly, on the matter Sidious/Palpatine. He may never be refered to by name in the movies themselves, but it's a very well documented fact: Vader's master, the head of the Empire and all it encompassed was Emperor Palpatine. And you'll notice, Emperor Palpatine is wearing the exact same robe (right down to the same neckclasp) as Sidious in episode 1 (and I assume 2, but I haven't checked that yet). He's played by the same actor (in RotJ, not ESB however, I think). And when you see Palpatine in Ep II you'll notice he isn't looking too well. His skin is pale, and you can see a lot of vains (I think). No, it's not a bad makeup job after a big night out, the physical decay that reflects his inner corruption -The Dark Side- (evident in RotJ) has already set in. Palpatine is Sidious. End of story.

 

As for Sifo-Dyas he must have been a real Jedi Master. It makes no sense that he was an alter-ego of Sidious/Palpatine, Dooku or Maul (*see end of post for more details). Obi Wan certainly knows of him. He asks the Prime Minister of Kamino a second time who commissioned the Clone army to make sure he heard right, and when he's sure he immediately tells him:

 

"Master Sifo Dyas was killed (about/almost/just over*) ten years ago."

 

*Only exact word I can't remember. Also, to my recollection there was a lot of "about ten years ago..." when refering to both the events of Ep I and Dyas' death, so whether he died before or after the Trade Blockade of Naboo is still up in the air to my mind.

 

So either he was one of the Jedi in the Council Chamber in Ep I, away on other business (ordering armies perhaps?) or already dead.

It's very very likely Sidious somehow arranged his death, and what Mace Windu and Yoda know of this is unclear. It's entirely possibly it was Palpatine or one of his minions posing as Dyas to order the army. Kamino must be a very quiet little out of the way place for ALL record of it to be so easily erased. They may not get much news out that way and so have no idea what Dyas looked like. And that's assuming that they can even tell one (human? Or at least whatever species Dyas was) from another. All the Kaminoans looked pretty similar to me.

But there's another possiblity I haven't seen addressed (not to say that it hasn't been of course). Sifo-Dyas may well have ordered it, in good faith, himself. It's not at all unheard of for the Jedi to serve the Senate directly. Palpatine somehow tricks Dyas into believing that's the will of the Senate, or else manipulated the Chancelor, Valourum, to request the Jedi to travel to Kamino. Or else he acted independently of the Senate, believing the army called for (again probably Palpatine's hand in that). He was then (probably) killed off by Palpatine and his minions, or possibly died on other Jedi business (it's a dangerous line of work after all).

 

Now as for my reasons Sifo-Dyas cannot (sensibly) be any of the known Sith Lords:

 

Maul - The most unlikely. A man of few words, not really the discussion circle type. Obi Wan knew of Dyas, so one assumes Qui Gin did too. And if was a leading Council member you think they would have SEEN him. To them, Maul was definately a new surprise.

 

Dooku - It's pretty clear that he WAS a Jedi Master, but that he's well known by Mace and others (as Dooku), and I doubt he was living a double-life as TWO Jedi Masters. And if he was I doubt they (the Jedi) would have fallen for it.

 

Palpatine/Sidious - Certainly seems to be pretty good at pulling the wool over Jedi eyes, but for him to be Dyas (which is far too convaluted to begin with) there are certain timing problems. At earliest Dyas died very shortly before the events of Naboo. So he'd have to (aside from the problems of living as a Jedi Master and not allowing others to feel his true thoughts/emotions when you'd think Jedi Masters would be fairly open with one another, and raising a young Sith as a single parent) fake his own death, immediately becoming an ambassador for Naboo and getting assigned to the Senate (a rather lofty position). Then in well under a year he'd have to have manipulated the entire Senate and have them eating out of his hands, and become the new Supreme Chancelor. Say what you like about Palpatine, but you can't say he's ever in a rush. He's a subtle, patient man. He must have been a full time Senator for years.

 

No, Sifo-Dyas must have been his own man, so to speak. But then, do we even know he was human? Or male? How he came to commission the Clones (assuming it was him and not an imposter), and what fate befell him, no one ('cept Lucas) can say...

 

 

After a little more thought it probably WAS Dooku impersonating Sifo-Dyas. After all, they must have had Jango right from the start of the process, and he did say he was recruited by Tyraanus on the moon of somewhere or other. Now before every one jumps up and down about Maul being alive back then and the whole "only two Sith" deal there are many explanations. For one thing, Palpatine is clearly already grooming Anakin while Dooku was still about, and he tries to replace Vader with Luke. My guess is that he likes to do away with his apprentices before they get any ideas about taking his place. He may already have been grooming Dooku. Pushing him away from the Jedi fold. Even before pushing him from the light (if he even needed a push) he may have shown him the need for an army in the Republic's future. Maul's days may have been numbered even without Obi-Wan's help, Dooku certianly would've been more useful than Maul in this next phase of his plans. It would be simple to use the name of a (conveniently) recently dead Jedi Master to make the request for a clone army. Keeping the real instigator's name quiet for political reasons. There are any number of explanations on the how and why of Dooku's involvment in creating the Clone army.

 

 

(PS Sorry about any typos etc, far too long to re-read...... : )

[husuris]

Most probably this question will be answered in Ep.III

Also remeber that there is another question unanswered from Ep.I

Why Qui-Gon did not dissapear after his death???

[RichDiesal]

I read somewhere recently that is because of the way that he tied himself to the Force... that there is both a Unifying Force and a Living Force, where the Unifying Force focuses on the total unifying force of nature while the Living Force focuses more on the individual...

 

Then again, some people argue that Yoda and Obi-Wan were actually the first Jedi to disappear on death... Since I don't think Anakin faded away even though he turned to the light side before he died...

 

Eh, no one knows, really.

[Funkyhead]

Rich ...

i didnt understand a word

 

...

could you repeat your posting to tell a fool like me what you were talking about

cause i didnt get that whoel unifying and living force

 

thanx

funkyhead

[Naphtali]

I think my explanation covers more, just to sum it up remember the Viceroy revealed the sith to Doukoo and let him know about his influence in the senate, he tried to take it to the jedi who didn't beleive him(remember) so he left forming the seperatist movement and he most likely purposely fell to the darkside to infiltrate the sith.(remember he pushes the issue a lot like Qui gon). Now he is likely trying to entrap sidious by slickly warning the jedi, thus to help himself beomce the new leader of the sith, leader of a new dictatorship, or to be the rouge hero that goes down as a legend by coming up with the plans to drive the sith out of the republic.

 

Just a more likely scenario, that will be found out in ep3

[BlackDove]

Anyone who nags about this again needs to be shot...this is just for the record

 

From theforce.net:

Palpatine - Supreme Chancellor, Darth Sidious

Actor: Ian McDiarmid

Still sticking to his evil ways, Palpatine manipulates the Senate to do his bidding and start the Clone Wars.

[Nebelwerfer_]

that is the most likely scenario, but we cannot forget the possibility that palpy might be a clone of sidious.

[Caliban]

The way I read it was that Sifo Dyas was a member of the Jedi Council killed in action (possibly by Sidious,Maul,Tyrannus) shortly before the final battle of Naboo. Sidious then uses his name to order the clones for the republic (as a member of the Jedi Council he would have been trusted by the Kaminoans to be acting under the orders of the Republic and also Dyas wouldn't be around to argue), nothing more.

[ValorXII]

I dont think Dooku was Dias. Maybe he forced him to order the clones? Dooku was a respected Jedi back then was he not? Why act as Dias when he could order the clones under his own name>?

[Cobalt60]

perhaps "Chancellor" Palpatine is a shapeshifter/changeling who is working for Sidious.

 

(why do you think they made a such big deal of introducing 'changelings' into the StarWars universe, with that female bounty hunter in the beginning of the film? the fact that she was a changeling served no dramatic purpose to the plot of Ep2. but this will serve a dramatic purpose in Ep3 , as we realise that NOBODY is who they seem to be)