imaginary mods.....

[Ken Kasanagi]

ok this is just some crap dat i realize a while ago, i know this isn't MP strategy, but i dunno why else to put it.....

 

i fink i heard this in this forum, the idea of manual blocking, which i thought would b pretty cool, adn then i just thought wat if they made JO into sumthing like an acarde type game, like soul blade, wouldn't that be cool? k this is just sum crap that came outta my head so dont pay too much attention to it but heres a few problem i need an answer IF JO did turn in to SB:

 

- how would manual blocking work? would it mean just holding a button for as long as u like to block or should there be sum restriction in it? like have a time limit, or while blocking u cant move and turn?

 

- how cool would it b if they have the combos and moves set up like a fighting game eg tekken? but that would mean the days of running around and slashing are gone and replace by movenent restrictions, eg most moves would be like the lunge attack where u cant change dierction or move like normal attacks would that b a problem?

 

yeap this is just bullsheep but i just there may b ppl out there who thinks just like me.....which is a scary thought.......

[karismatik]

Manual blocking was one of the things i read about, first thought would be too difficult to implement, but subsequently thought maybe it would be a great idea... (i haven't thought any of this out, this is spur of the moment thinking, so it's not expected to be workable this way necessarily)

 

The way i see it, is that some blocking should still be automatic, but the difference would be that there's a good chance (say 25% chance) that the attack would be successful... This way, those whose computers are really laggy wouldn't be TOO badly off...

 

Then I was thinking that manual blocking, if done correctly, should be able to block anything at all... IMO, a possible system would involve a block key, and then you just need to be able to react quickly enough using good block combos (like block+left, block+right, block+crouch etc.)... Each block combo would be able to block a certain set of moves, but each would have its own weaknesses as well... Perhaps block+attack+direction could work as an attempt to parry...

 

This would make blue stance devastating since the lightning fast speed of the combos would be harder to block than the slowness of the red stance, so balancing would need to be done here...

 

The main problem though in the current game i feel is the ease at which certain moves (backsweep) are very fast, very damaging and virtually unblockable... So maybe manual blocking isn't needed, just to fix up backsweep... (i have proposed that they should make the backswing and follow through do only 30 or so damage, but keep the swing around at 120)

 

I think that manual blocking will ADD (not detract) from the game in terms of the skill element it will require... Although certainly, with a system like i suggested above, it should only be optional since it would add a huge element of frustration to lagged players and not enhance their gaming experience... Regardless of whether to use it, the problem of backsweep should still be fixed, and above is a suggestion about how to fix it...

 

Hope ppl think the same and can come up with better ideas, or even implement them!!!

 

Cheers,

Dave

[Dea]

Originally posted by karismatik

Then I was thinking that manual blocking, if done correctly, should be able to block anything at all... IMO, a possible system would involve a block key, and then you just need to be able to react quickly enough using good block combos (like block+left, block+right, block+crouch etc.)... Each block combo would be able to block a certain set of moves, but each would have its own weaknesses as well... Perhaps block+attack+direction could work as an attempt to parry...

 

There's just no way you can implement this and still be able to play. They don't tell you to drive at least two seconds behind the one in front of you for nothing. A human just can't react fast enough. Even for red style you'd need 'jedi reflexes' wich is exactly what the game simulates

[karismatik]

I don't think reflexes are too much of a problem, because you can predict what move your opponent is going to use quite easily from their stance and the backswing... Admittedly, you need pretty decent reflexes to block everything reliably, but then again, that's where my suggestion of the 75% auto-block comes in... Also, the blocks won't be complex, but rather simple in that any one block will be very good at blocking a wide spectrum of moves (not one block for one individual move)...

 

So while i don't think it'll be easy, neither do i think it's impossible nor worthless to give it a try... I think this idea can be made to work quite well if the game can be thought about as a whole to accomodate it... (might need to slightly slow down saber fights, perhaps to the speed of the movie instead, which is fine for red stance, but blue and yellow are probably too fast IMO for this to succeed) - eh, or do i just have faster reflexes than most ppl???

[Dea]

Originally posted by karismatik

neither do i think it's impossible nor worthless to give it a try...

 

Problem is, you can't 'just' give something a try, because we'll be stuck with it at least a few months.

 

However, it could prove more of a challange if the blocking radius were decreased, that would have a similar effect. Also things as repostes could be introduced, that would be like when you hit the 'reposte' button within a certain time of a block one would reposte the attack. However, I think this would lead to an extention of the none offencive problem discussed in another thread

[karismatik]

hey that nobody attacking problem was a huge problem i've had!!! got over it by arranging mutual conditions...

 

as for the giving it a try thing, it's an idea for a possible mod rather than a patch (i've rather given up on a patch)... and so you won't be stuck with it for months (i'd hate that thought!!! someone comes up with an idea only to thrust it on everyone else... unfortunately that's how too many things in this world work, but in some situations it's a blessing...)

 

off that, i like your idea about ripostes, but that would definitely become too easy after a while... remember all those combos that could be done in like street fighter and mortal kombat??? things like that didn't end up being too difficult after a while, i think the complexities of blocking won't be that difficult after a while either...

 

btw, it was one of the main reasons for proposing the manual block (or supporting it in my case, since it wasn't originally an idea i came up with) - that people refused to initiate the attack... things were just way too easy to block!!! this solution would make it harder, and add this challenge in, and people will once again want to reestablish their styles as either an initiator or defender, rather than both wanting to defend, but just running out of patience in the end and having to attack to add some spark to the game... of course it was the defender who won in 80% of these cases...

[Dea]

Originally posted by karismatik

things were just way too easy to block!!! this solution would make it harder

 

In that case you should also make it useless to keep the block key pressed otherwise people will just stand still while holding this button.

[karismatik]

Originally posted by Dea

 

In that case you should also make it useless to keep the block key pressed otherwise people will just stand still while holding this button.

 

I can't argue with this one... the block key is not designed to be effective by itself... you use block combos... after thinking about it a little longer, each blocking combo should have a characteristic saber position (from which the jedi would be ready enough to counter a certain set of moves, and would do so automatically given they're in the right combo)... this also means that if someone's just pressing a block combo, it'll be easy to come in and do one of the moves that won't be blocked by it... (so you can't just stand there and block)

 

it's designed to be a reactive thing, so experienced players will definitely have the hang of it far better than the newer players... i think also that this will introduce the need to learn blocking in order to survive well (not to block all the time, because you need to deal with your opp as well)... this would mean less spamming of one move over and over, and make people who want to fight well learn a wide variety of moves... also, it won't make blocking such an attractive option all the time - so the system shouldn't penalise those who attack first with an easy method to counter...

 

just think that more attack combos should be built in (like for red stance) just to balance it out... it would be really fun...

[thehomicidalegg]

i remember artifex once suggested something along the line of semi-auto blocking by using the viewing target and a set angle , e.g. 90 degrees, so that one can manouver the blocking radius with the mouse. I believe that wouldnt be a bad idea.

[Ken Kasanagi]

so after all the problem is that the blocking is either too much (for normal moves) or not enough (special moves)....

 

the idea about specific manual blocking using left+block right+block etc may b a bad idea, even in arcade fightin games there's only a high and a low block, along with a high, mid, and low attacks that creates a rock scissors paper situation: eg, high block can block high but not low, low block and block low and dodge high while mid attacks hits low blocks..... but putting so many different blockin positions will be impossible to create a balance game, attackers will difinetly get the advantage

if manual blocking was implemented, it should b use to give the user an advantage, instead of nerfing the auto blocking, mayb if should give a higher chance for parrying, even knowdowns(kinda like in a saber lock) well nerfing auto blocking is a must, but instead of lowering its ratio it should just have a less radius, say a 90 degrees angle, 45degree on each side of the cross hair, and may b all special move have to be block by the manul button, so that it'll still be "special"

[karismatik]

ok ppl don't like the manual block combo idea... (i jus liked it cos it plays to one of my strengths, i.e. dexterity and reflexes)

 

but DEFINITELY blocking should be harder than it currently is... i don't think it's fair that the attacker currently loses most of the battles because it's too easy to counter every opening... deception is therefore the only real way to get around it, like faking DFA, and doing speedy spin-backsweep combos following on from a flurry of blue-stance moves (or something like that)... and these are easily countered anyway by any guarded opponent...

 

and as a result, the more effective tactic is the throw-pull and kicking combos... the play has suffered heaps from the effectiveness of these styles, which i think is really due to the ease at which the other moves can be countered...

 

i still think auto-block should be lowered in chance to block for these reasons... - it will encourage people to come forth and bring the battle closer, and lead to more exciting saber battles, don't you think??? (i don't think lowering the radius will do enough to cause this shift in the nature of saber battles)

 

so if a manual block was to be introduced, don't make it able to block everything... even with a limited radius people will get used to it and will be able to block everything easily, and the game will return to its current state... (the solution to which i proposed block combos) - i think we should think about this a little longer and realise that blocking shouldn't be easy, and that we should encourage attacking... a combo solution will fulfil these, and i think will lead to more exciting saber battles - a desirable goal i would think???

[Ken Kasanagi]

well here's the other problem, ppl dont just stand there and block, they run around, roll around jump around and doing what they can to avoid actual close saber combat, it wont matter if the block is reduce, ppl can just run off it will just be a game of saber throw....

 

may b auto block should only b able to block projectiles, while manual blocking and attack should force the player to slowdown, with the restricted movement the players will have to stand a bit still in saber combat instead of running all over the place, dont any body found it stupid to have sum1 running around while swinging a saber? where's the posture in that? that just not realistic and ruins the "cool" factor that the movies have, try imagine Mace running around like that in AOTC...doesn't seem right does it?

 

saber throw should be like single player if u miss u'll lose ur saber that will give hevay stance some chance....