JK2++ Beta 3 Information!

[NK_Zephorath]

Originally posted by IronJedi Kaga

 

Well as for the JK feel, well I guess that personal preference. IMO Jk was very imbalanced and JK2 is overall much more balanced than the fiist.

 

As for the light destroys dark, I agree with you. Though I feel the answer is more in altering absorb with the "reverse ysmalri effect" so that the offensive force advantage returns to the darkside or at the very least the sides are left with equal offensive capability as opposed to altering, or returning drain to its 1.02 state.

 

I'm lost

Please elaborate a little?

What would you like to see done concering absorb/drain?

[NK_Zephorath]

Ok I think I made the mistake of making it sound like CTF was our only concern.

 

It isn't!

 

Right now we are working on the dueling/sabers aspect of the mod.

Thanks

[QuietSith]

Originally posted by GrEEk_OuTcAsT

Sorry for my first reply which was pretty quick but I was in hurry and I didn't analyzed your mod a lot.

 

I played for sometime your mod and it is good for team games but it probably sucks in Duels which is the "Main" JK2 Gametype.

 

My 90% of my games are duels and all the changes you made don't help it a lot. However even in this version jk2++ is BETTER than any other patch even in duel but it still needs further improvements in this.

 

And when I say Duel I don't mean only NF Duels but also Jedi Knight/Master Duels that have almost disappeared since 1.03. I will analyze my suggestions in your forum.

 

What exactly - one by one - could they do to improve duel combat?

 

Can you give us a break down of each thing you liked to see added or changed?

 

My biggest concern is the return of the 1.02 DFA except the blocking is 1.03 and therefore very difficult to fight back - and it just makes the duel last too long and be boring.

 

Heck, I'd love to see a duel mode where red stance is able to be optionally turned off - and you could only duel in light and medium - but that's just my extreme opinion.

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by NK_Zephorath

Concerning saber damage:

From [WD]Rage

 

Yes, they are close, but I wouldn't say they're too high. The saber is the ultimate weapon. The slightest touch dismembers an appendage or can kill. Game-wise, that philosophy doesn't work well, but there can be a compromise between game and movie.

 

When I started thinking of what damage to use for the sabers, I decided to make the saber more like JK1:

 

Primary swing - Didn't do as much damage as secondary. In about 3 or 4 swipes, the person's dead.

 

Secondary - Took away 98 health and 80 shields. If you got hurt in any area, anything more than taking two hit points, one slice of the secondary and you were dead.

 

I wanted to emulate that.

 

So Red/Heavy stance is now the secondary swing of JK1. It's strong and powerful, and makes you almost dead. Blue is the primary swing. Yellow is a compromise between blue and red. The saber damage system kept gunners at bay. Sabers weren't as good as guns in JK1, but you at least had a chance. Now it's the same in JK2. Saberists now have more of a chance against gunners than they did.

 

Now, base damage is decided upon a good, clean hit, which doesn't happen as much as non-clean hits (which cause less damage). On paper, the damage system seems high, but in reality, it's not.

 

At first I had some huge paragraphs, but here is the short version. Gah this turned long as well.

 

Since your using a huge damage variable for each stance (with 2 being the lowest) upping the damage for every stance does little because the amount of damage you'll cause per swing is still incredibly unpredictable. Since the damage is still unpredictable, killing someone with the saber regardless of stance could still take awhile.

 

Assuming you lower the unpredictability and make base hits happen most often, the problem described in my prior post reappears, specifically, that there is little, if any difference between the damage done by any stance unless the opponent has an extremly high amount of health and shields. That in essence would basically kill either heavy or medium stance and make the game a two stance game. Thats fine if you liked jk, but IMO the jk2 system is far superior, and has proven more popular than the jk system for sabers.

 

As for sabers vs guns, the jk2 system still works and you can emulate jk gameplay without changing the damage done. If you want to do quick damage, a clean hit with heavy stance will kill someone using a gun with 1-2 hits. Medium which trades off damage for increased speed, will kill in 3-4 hits. Light which trades off a lot of damage for alot of speed can take about 6-8 hits. The only time you'll get hung up having to fight someone for awhile(assuming your doing base damage with good swings) is if your using fast stance, or unless they have a saber out (will address what you can do for saber vs saber in a bit). Now assuming your playing ctf which this mod is desgined for, you shouldnt be using fast stance at all since it takes the longest to kill someone with, and if you're saberfighting anyone but the flag carrier, you're wasting your time. With that in mind, the current saber damage system holds up IMO.

 

IMO, the best way to fix saber damage so that the stances and their advantages are preserved, and so that a player can still inflict a decent amount of damge would be to simply reduce the damage variables and make base damage the max damage. Here's an example:

 

Light Stance- Base damage = 25. Variable damage based on swing timing ranges from 20-24. Kills a spawned player in 5 hits if every swing is perfect. Kills one in up to 7 hits if not perfect. will take 8 -10 hits to kill someone with full health and full shields (well after having gotten a large shield booster that has counted down). Preserves the light stances high speed for low damage.

 

Medium- Base damage = 50 Variable damage based on swing timing 45-49. Kills a spawned player in 3 hits. Kills a 100/100 player in 4-5 hits

 

Heavy- Base damage =75 Variable damage based on swing timing 70-74. Kills a spawned player in 2 hits. Kills a 100/100 player in 3 hits.

 

A system like the above would allow one to easily keep track of damage done and estimate how much more effort is needed to take an opponent down. In addition the saber is still highly lethal as it will take down anyone in 3-5 hits (excluding the rare case of 100/200) as long as you are using medium stance or above, and will take down anyone in 2-3 hits if one uses heavy stance exclusively.

[Chewie Bakker]

NK_Zephorath: What IronJedi Kaga is saying is he wants Absorb to work like the ysalamiri - Those funny lizards that you find on top of the flags in "Capture the Ysalamiri" and that you can find in most FFA levels. They completely nullify Force powers.

 

If you look here you'll see that IronJedi Kaga's opinion is a minority one, and that most peoples worries with Absorb would be fixed by simply ensuring that the push/pull counters against pull/push worked against someone taking advantage of Absorb (mainly in regards to the pull/backstab).

 

The Force will be with you, always.

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by NK_Zephorath

 

I'm lost

Please elaborate a little?

What would you like to see done concering absorb/drain?

 

Drain, return it to 1.03. Its main purpose is for healing, not for premptive strikes at an opponents force pool. As for absorb, "reverse ysmalri effect" means that while absorb is on, the player can use no other force powers. This returns the offensive force power advantage to the darkside player because though absorb would still block lightning, grip, drain, pull/push, the lightside player wouldnt be able to pull/push or saberthrow or even kick.The darkside player on the other hand would still be able to kick, and use saber throw. As of now, the lightside user can pull/push, kick, or saber throw while the darkside player can only saber throw or kick. Hence the aforementioned offensive force power advantage for the lightside.

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by Chewie Bakker

NK_Zephorath: What IronJedi Kaga is saying is he wants Absorb to work like the ysalamiri - Those funny lizards that you find on top of the flags in "Capture the Ysalamiri" and that you can find in most FFA levels. They completely nullify Force powers.

 

If you look here you'll see that IronJedi Kaga's opinion is a minority one, and that most peoples worries with Absorb would be fixed by simply ensuring that the push/pull counters against pull/push worked against someone taking advantage of Absorb (mainly in regards to the pull/backstab).

 

The Force will be with you, always.

 

A tad confused there but if what your saying is that push/pull would work against absorb, I would be fine with that. That would give equal offensive force power capablility for both the light and darkside.

 

The only other thing tat I think you may be trying to say is that the auto counter push/pull doesn't activate against someone who has absorb on. If thats the case I havent run into that problem as the auto counters have worked for me.

[Chewie Bakker]

Pull/Push actually works against someone using Absorb, but the aptly-named Force power Absorbs most of it. It's a tiny amount akin to a running step or two but it still works.

 

Absorb should be used in the Yoda vs Tyranus spirit, and used to force a Dark Jedi to fight with the saber (as far as JK2 gameplay's concerned). Unfortunately, a lot of people abuse Absorb and use the pull & backstab combo.

 

The Force will be with you, always.

[NK_Zephorath]

http://forums.wdonline.com

[icefox98]

dudez i commend u on this uber mod ur making wow it soundez so friggin sweet but u know u gotta nerf 1 more thing thats rlly important.....SABER DEFENSE yup u know what im talkin about the amerikan ppl no what im talkin about and bob dole nos what im talkin about. so plz PLZ PLZ PLZ nerf saber defense in this mod this will make the game so less friggin cheap

 

kthxforurhelpbye

[Doctor Shaft]

Sorry for not posting in your forums, but I figured I'd try here first. I was too lazy to sign up there and stuff. Maybe later. In regards to your mod, I tried it, and it was cool, you guys are on the right track. However, I still had a few things to comment on. I understand that you're first efforts have been to enhance competitive ctf play. It seems your want to enhance duels and such next. Great. That would help. First thing is to tighten that saber vs saber defense. Right now, a saber blocking guns is fine. Don't change it. But with saber vs saber, the defense is still screwy, it's still hard to hit. Overwhelming a person is very seldom. But you already said you were working on that too. Great.

 

I must also address Iron Jedi Kaga's comments on saber stances and such. I have said this many times before in another post, but lowering saber damage is not the answer. Never ever ever. Yes, if you look at the damage, there's little difference between stances, but that should not be the focus of using the stance at all. The focus should be in it's tactical use. A light stance move that takes seven hits or even 4 or 5 hits is too long. It's impractical. Here's why. Let's take stormtrooper rifle versus lightsaber. Keep in mind, both opponents have jedi skills. The stormtrooper rifle is not only 40 times faster than any lightsaber swing, but it's also weaker and has many times more range and situational use. However, with it's speed, it more than makes up for it. Light stance, on the other hand, is no faster than medium stance. The difference comes in its range and it's ability to have infinite chains. Now, both opponent come up to each other. You're blocking shots, but any smart cookie knows he has to keep range, try to entice you to swing, and then trade hit. you do base damage 25 once, maybe twice. Skilled gunner has shot you for 25 damage 10-20 times by using secondary fire. You fall to the floor after all that physical effort of dodging fire, blocking it, and then timing the shot. He merely walked backwards, enticed you to swing, and then pressed the button and watched you fall. You hit him, but he brushes it off, then steps on your body.

 

The lightsaber should have high damage all the time. Right now, I think the damage level is okay, however the getting the right amount of damage is still pretty hard. With a damage range of 2-50 or 10-xx is a large bracket. Sure, we should encourage good hits for good damage, but other variables of game play prevent this in the current mod. First, the blocking thing is still too open. But you said you're trying to address this. Second, game speed. I know that the neutral force tweaks are trying to open up a similar JK1 speed, but that brings with it the problem JK1 was plagued with. Right now, even with increased saber damage, any gunner worth his ten cents can overwhelm saberist by using a combination of two powers and gun. Force speed to go ultra fast, and force jump to stay out of the danger zone of the sabers, but leaving him in position to destroy all those who chase him. Saber damage is increased, but with increased speed and less jump cost, gunners have all they need to dominate. The Push/pull problem that plagued 1.03 was bad, but it wasn't all bad. You could always be comforted by the fact that a person rushing you with force speed and what not could easily be pull/pushed down, forcing them to slow down or be shoved silly. JK2++ does not offer this comfort. Today, after some time, I found myself unable to manipulate people running (no, they didn't have absorb on). Your tweak for less mana also makes speed too powerful. Sure, JK1 fast gameplay was great, but the sabers being choppy and clumsy wasn't the only problem for saberists. It was the fact that everyone could run really fast for little to no cost that hindered it. Why ever engage in saber combat, or even fear a lightsaber when I could run away at high octance speed with little fear of being left with no force power, and fire rockets, or especially the heavily abused imperial flechette and heavy repeater all day? This is not to insult the team or call JK2++ a complete failure, it's far from it. But these are still some issues that exist. Saber damage bridged some of the gap between guns and sabers, but the ability to jump and speed for little cost damages, and perhaps even destroys the bridge.

 

Right now, the lightsaber is still what I call the Counterstrike knife. The only difference is that it looks cooler in my hands, has an extended reach, and it dismembers people. In counterstrike, the knife has some damage power, but it still never holds up against the tried and true high powered rifles and sub-machine guns. The saber in JK2++ is not precisely the same way, but in certain situations it comes close. Saber versus saber blocking has been a problem for everyone. Increased saber damage is the first step. Saber versus gun though still presents great problems. I'm not the greatest player in the world, but I believe myself competent enough to know when a certain gameplay style is simply too inferior to hold up agains others. Giving more ammo or oomph to certain weapons is fine. Go for it. However, the way a saber just functions leaves it highly outclassed. In single player, gunners were beaten because they a)weren't smart and b) I could manipulate them with the force a great deal. In multiplayer, everyone is a jedi. Why use a lightsaber that is infinitely slower, and still is very hard to hit a person with, when I could use the imperial flechette and trip everyone? I know my post is long and mostly negative, but please don't take this as a bashing, just some comments. I had great fun playing JK2++. But again, the highest scoring people were not the saberists, it was the gunners. That's fine, gunners can be the highest scorers anyday, all the time. But it's disturbing when you realize they don't have to work nearly as hard to get there. Not that gunners are cheap or cocky, but you cannot challenge a person with a lightsaber. When you get up close to someone, the normal swing animations are really only good when facing another lightsaber, against stormtrooper rifle, or a flechette, or any other gun, walking backwards and firing is generally the best thing to do.

 

What would I do to give the lightsaber a deadly edge, or something that would force gunners to be even more intelligent than before, and force them to think what they are doing? I know people don't like one hit kills, or things like that, but if a saber is ever going to win right now, it needs to have a huge damage advantage over the guns. If you want to balance saber v saber, fine. But when it comes to guns, there are too many anti-climactic outcomes that I witness. A person gets in with saber, starts slashing gunner, gets in hits with increased damage. Gunner is hurt, but then activates speed plus jump, or even just merely jumps out of the way, fires heavy repeater explose shot, or imperial flechette, two seconds, saberist is dead. The gunner was smart, yes, but how hard was that? How intense was that? Answer: not intense at all. People pick up the explosive weapons all the time not because they are noobs, or that they suck, or that they are being cheap. it's because they know it's tactically smarter. Better damage range, easier to hit with, limited defenses against it, and they know that it's still much stronger than a lightsaber.

 

To end this long post, if someone can tell me of their great exploits with a lightsaber and little force power assistance against a good gunner, then post it and i guess I'll be prove wrong about my ideas and comments. If you've killed one guy or two consistently in a game, don't bother. That's not substantial. But if you currently own people with that lightsaber, and you hold very well against gunners versus lightsaber, without having to push and pull them around all day, or basically standing in the background, and then waiting for that "opportunity" that comes around every five minutes, then tell me. My instincts tell me no one has been able to scare people when they ignite their saber. People tremble in fear when flechettes and repeaters and disruptors and rockets come out, but the only time a saber gets complained about is when it's against another saber. Otherwise, a saber doesn't even match up with the guns. Okay, no more rambling, I don't think before I type, I just type.

[MrYepp]

In response to Kage's Absorb/Drain issues:

 

Remember, Darkside's supposed to be offensive anyway, so using drain as a preemptive strike should be a valid tactic to render your opponent defenseless. Putting on a reverse-ysalamiri effect on Absorb would effectively nerf it to the point of uselessness. I'd say the Force powers are pretty good where they are now, most of the reason why Darkside was so much more powerful in 1.02 was due to the fact that the most powerful force Lightside has to counter Dark is Absorb. Absorb wasn't useless, but it was weak because it was visible. By nerfing Absorb again will just create force imbalance like in 1.02.

[MrYepp]

About the Lightsaber issues:

What Doctor Shaft said was extremely true. As of now (1.03) in CTF or TFFA with guns, the only purpose for me to have a saber at all was for

 

1.)Rolling, so I could conserve mana and move along at a nice speed.

 

2.)Defend against deflectable projectiles.

 

So basically, I had level 1 saber offense (so i could have the saber at all) and level 3 saber defense. The saber was a useful tool, but quite useless other than the defensive capabilities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I forgot the point I was trying to make

 

maybe I'll finish this post when I remember lol

[ThirdGenRX7]

Raven should just pirate JK2++ and call it 1.04;)

[Boreas]

Can you get rid of speed advantage by rolling plz?

 

Make it more like SP, where it is short and you mainly use it to get in close to someone before you take a saber swing.

[Lucky]

Rage: All of the combo's for the saber have slowed you down to walking speed, its not readily apparent because so much else was changed with 1.03, but its definitely in the code if you go take a look at it. + walking backwards was slowed for everything, im sure u ganked that already.

 

As for the rolling and disruptor, yeah it sounds like you got about halfway there and it still ran serverside. I got it working all the way, but never tried running it on a server.

 

Shouldn't be too much work to get that implemented completely when you have the time. I had client/side changes all over, so I wasn't even remotely worried about making what I had done work as a server side modification. The saber bug is because the function assumes you are holding a saber, you have to make it understand what yer holding with another function call I can't remember. I'll take a look at it next week and post when I head home, busy as hell atm.

 

Also, a lot of the stuff you've changed is also in various cvars, as well as local variables derived from the cvars. I dunno if you realized that or not, but its definitely true. Might make it easier for you in the future if you realize there are some global things you can tweak to accomplish the same goals.

 

And as for arbitrary changes? Well mebe you should define 'improved' a little bit better and lay out a reason for each change in yer documentation. I honestly don't understand why you increased the grip range or messed with jump. Jump was setup with the base levels just like JK's was with oasis, perfect height for most jumps.

 

Also, increasing the speed of jump just increases the amount it gets incremented everytime the controls msg map gets run. This makes for a nasty lil stuttering bug, not sure if yer suffering from that or not, ill go take a look sometime in the next 2-3 days.

 

And speed, like I said, that wall walking code is invaluable in that sense, cause JK locked you to the ground unless you hit jump. Thats why speed worked for JK. If you want to boost speed up to JK levels, you should consider implementing somthing like that.

 

 

 

 

Lucky

[NK_Zephorath]

bump

[MrYepp]

*bump*

[QuietSith]

Things have been slightly improved since this change:

 

http://forums.wdonline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146

[NK_Zephorath]

Indeed

[DarthCobra]

Nice poll. Gotta love how u have no bad choices. Its a nerfed fanmod. Im sure your likely to find that everyone isnt gonna like it. I'll pass.

[GrEEk_OuTcAsT]

Doctor Shaft has some good points but he is mostly wrong. Lightsaber, because of its limited range is never going to be a top weapon in massive games. A lightsaber user himself can easily win a repeater user you mentioned. Either throw him in the correct moment, Pull his weapon, Speed and Saber rape him while he holds a gun, Throw while having protect, mind trick for sudden attacks and much more. There is no doubt that in 1v1 the saberist wins. However when in a FFA game Lightsaber users can be hitted with guns while they try to kill an other gunner and this always makes Gunners good scorers. They search for unprotected Sabers to hit them from back.

 

LightSaber needs to balanced only in Duels.

 

However turning Ghoul2 OFF is something necessary because there is too much blocking now. Sometimes you reach a guner and when he sees you are close he just gets his saber up and defends all the attacks of your sudden saber assault without losing 1 hit point.

[NK_Zephorath]

Originally posted by DarthCobra

Nice poll. Gotta love how u have no bad choices. Its a nerfed fanmod. Im sure your likely to find that everyone isnt gonna like it. I'll pass.

 

The poll was a joke, you obviously have no sense of humour. Please leave us all alone.

 

Nerfed fanmod? How so?

You're flamming our mod, but not giving any reasons at all.

[NK_Zephorath]

Originally posted by GrEEk_OuTcAsT

Doctor Shaft has some good points but he is mostly wrong. Lightsaber, because of its limited range is never going to be a top weapon in massive games. A lightsaber user himself can easily win a repeater user you mentioned. Either throw him in the correct moment, Pull his weapon, Speed and Saber rape him while he holds a gun, Throw while having protect, mind trick for sudden attacks and much more. There is no doubt that in 1v1 the saberist wins. However when in a FFA game Lightsaber users can be hitted with guns while they try to kill an other gunner and this always makes Gunners good scorers. They search for unprotected Sabers to hit them from back.

 

LightSaber needs to balanced only in Duels.

 

However turning Ghoul2 OFF is something necessary because there is too much blocking now. Sometimes you reach a guner and when he sees you are close he just gets his saber up and defends all the attacks of your sudden saber assault without losing 1 hit point.

 

 

Pretty sure we're going to have ghoul2 off by default following this version.

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by Doctor Shaft

I must also address Iron Jedi Kaga's comments on saber stances and such. I have said this many times before in another post, but lowering saber damage is not the answer. Never ever ever. Yes, if you look at the damage, there's little difference between stances, but that should not be the focus of using the stance at all. The focus should be in it's tactical use. A light stance move that takes seven hits or even 4 or 5 hits is too long. It's impractical. Here's why. Let's take stormtrooper rifle versus lightsaber. Keep in mind, both opponents have jedi skills. The stormtrooper rifle is not only 40 times faster than any lightsaber swing, but it's also weaker and has many times more range and situational use. However, with it's speed, it more than makes up for it. Light stance, on the other hand, is no faster than medium stance. The difference comes in its range and it's ability to have infinite chains. Now, both opponent come up to each other. You're blocking shots, but any smart cookie knows he has to keep range, try to entice you to swing, and then trade hit. you do base damage 25 once, maybe twice. Skilled gunner has shot you for 25 damage 10-20 times by using secondary fire. You fall to the floor after all that physical effort of dodging fire, blocking it, and then timing the shot. He merely walked backwards, enticed you to swing, and then pressed the button and watched you fall. You hit him, but he brushes it off, then steps on your body.

 

 

 

What would I do to give the lightsaber a deadly edge, or something that would force gunners to be even more intelligent than before, and force them to think what they are doing? I know people don't like one hit kills, or things like that, but if a saber is ever going to win right now, it needs to have a huge damage advantage over the guns. If you want to balance saber v saber, fine. But when it comes to guns, there are too many anti-climactic outcomes that I witness. A person gets in with saber, starts slashing gunner, gets in hits with increased damage. Gunner is hurt, but then activates speed plus jump, or even just merely jumps out of the way, fires heavy repeater explose shot, or imperial flechette, two seconds, saberist is dead. The gunner was smart, yes, but how hard was that? How intense was that? Answer: not intense at all. People pick up the explosive weapons all the time not because they are noobs, or that they suck, or that they are being cheap. it's because they know it's tactically smarter. Better damage range, easier to hit with, limited defenses against it, and they know that it's still much stronger than a lightsaber.

 

To end this long post, if someone can tell me of their great exploits with a lightsaber and little force power assistance against a good gunner, then post it and i guess I'll be prove wrong about my ideas and comments. If you've killed one guy or two consistently in a game, don't bother. That's not substantial. But if you currently own people with that lightsaber, and you hold very well against gunners versus lightsaber, without having to push and pull them around all day, or basically standing in the background, and then waiting for that "opportunity" that comes around every five minutes, then tell me. My instincts tell me no one has been able to scare people when they ignite their saber. People tremble in fear when flechettes and repeaters and disruptors and rockets come out, but the only time a saber gets complained about is when it's against another saber. Otherwise, a saber doesn't even match up with the guns. Okay, no more rambling, I don't think before I type, I just type.

 

Interesting analysis but you are incorrect o some things. I'll address your saber stance issues first. The light stance is faster than the medium stance. The combos and spins are faster than the medium stance counterparts. Hence the lower damage, for higher speed. If you want to kill someone quickly, your going to have to use medium or heavy stance.

 

As for your stormtrooper rifle example, there are several errors with it. First, any player with experience will simply sit there and deflect the st rifle shots. With saber defense 3, anyone who attempts to fire an st rifle at you will be lucky to get 3 shots out of 100 to land. During that time the rifle user will usually either give up, run out of ammo, or get killed due to deflected blasts. As for the run away and entice a swing strategy, that strategy simply wont work unless your in ctf chasing down a carrier. And if your chasing someone in ctf with a lightsaber your already screwed for the most part. Otherwise the smart saber user would just either pull the gun away, run in and kick, or let the gun user fire first. Second you only mention fast stance, as I said in a prevous post heavily will usually kill in 1-2 clean hits. Medium in 3-4. This isnt counting any special attacks.

 

As for the damage issue, heavy stance swings have the same damage capability as most of the high damage weapons. The only weapons that rival heavy stance in killing power are the flechette secondary, rockets, the two types of detonators.

 

As for range, any gunner retreating while firing at you is putting him/herself at a disadvantage. Why? Force push. What ever cant be deflected by the saber can be pushed away. Let them run away and fire at you. Simply push back the energy grendade, flechette mine, rocket or detonator that they fire at you. The greater distance only gives you more time to deflect the attack. In addition saber use gives you a variety of dodging techniques. Rolling, and wallwalking are both saber only ways of being able to dodge gunfire at a distance.

 

The saber can compete with guns, but guns have the advantage in a multi opponent environment because you dont have to be as "attached" to a battle as a saber user is. And by atatched I mean a 1 person focus. The saber is not really made for damageing more than one person so what happens to alot of peopel using the saber is that they enter a battle and engage one person, and can hold that other person at bay even if they are using a gun. On the other hand the gun user doesnt have to enter a battle and engage one person like a saber user does, they can stay at a distance and pick a specific target not risking immediate danger, or a gun user can use a splash damage weapon like the rocket launcher or the flechette secondary to attack all the opponents in the vicinity. That's the main advantage guns have over sabers, and unless they add some sort of saber thats like triple the length of the normal one, gun users will usually have the tactical advantage in most game types.