samamorgan Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Just wanted to say.... Everything is possible, wether you like it or not. For all you know, an alien could come down right now and turn us all into purple banannas. Stop being a know it all. If you knew it all, you would rule the world. And all i see you doing is posting on a coding forum. Just had to say that, you were just pissing me off with your rude comments and your no-hope attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Xavier Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 well I think..... (alien comes down and turns me into purple bannana) ( couldn't resist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Huh? I wasn't being rude. I assume you were talking about how I said it would be impossible to disassemble compiled C++ code out of a DLL and get it into a fully readable format. Okay, fine, it's POSSIBLE, but there's about a .0000001% change of it being mathematically possible. Also, there's a huge difference between no hope and being REALISTIC. Go to any C++ coding forums with experianced programmers and ask them if you can decompile a DLL into readable source. Guess what they'll say? No. Besides, even if you could, you wouldn't be able to realese it because it would be illegal, and you'd be fined out of the wazoo for that. And about animations, well, of course you can make new animations, but the chance of someone willing to pay for SoftImage (nearly impossible to warez it) is minimal. It takes a long time to get good with the program, but once you are, you can definatly create new animations just as good as the ones in JO. About animating a new saber combat system (like for two sabers) is possible, but what good will it be unless it's good as the existing saber combat? Making animations isn't just *click click click* "Mommy, look I made 300 animtions in an hour!!". Someone's gotta be willing to dedicate a good half a year to just making new animtions, or even more time than that. Do you honestly think that anyone is willing to do this? Perhaps a few people are, but again the chances are really slim. I'm being realistic here, folks. I don't think you should go plan some huge SP TC with two lightsabers, a lightstaff with all new animations and new SP code in the name of "it's possible". When you start working on a mod, you have to think REALISTICALLY. You gotta think, "Are we ever really going to WANT to do all this? Can we even DO any of it? Are we dedicated enough to do this?" Maybe, maybe not. Just because I'm being realistic here while all of you go dancing around in glee because someone thought of a mod idea that probably won't happen, doesn't mean I'm being rude. P.S. If you have a problem with ME, then e-mail me or send me a PM instead of posting a PRIVATE message on the PUBLIC forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITEMARE Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 hey! thats friggin unfair! where is the flame thread about me??? i kind of have the same opinions as emon on this subject and already posted that. but ok i didnt post it into one of those "new mod idea" threads because i nearly totaly ignore those worthless threads. i realy like your answer emon. its the exact thing i am thinking all the time. it realy buggs me that most of the people here are interessted in yoda models and double saber or unrealistic mod ideas... if u are a coder (good one or a newb doesnt matter) please tell me if u like my mod ideas. i realy need some guys working on it and i only have me and mabe another one next week mabe. i cant code for real and have enough **** to do with map making... http://www.nitemares.de/duel_se/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Well a smaller Yoda for MP I think is possible, and I think it's been done. I never said it wouldn't be possible, but I didn't know how, so I asked, and now I get flamed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samamorgan Posted June 30, 2002 Author Share Posted June 30, 2002 Whoa that was alot of spam! Who else can i piss off today? LOL Don't get mad at me for being me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITEMARE Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 its a bad thing that the search funktion is off due to high traffic or stuff but why cant admins just keep the forums clean? i am an admin myself, on a very small board compared to this, but compared to a single forum here its the same. and if i see a post like this or another disturbing or totaly stupid thing i close it and give an explanation, after a day i remove the thread. there are many threads here i would...§$§$§=%$(=?($%&=?(&$!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Originally posted by samamorgan Whoa that was alot of spam! Who else can i piss off today? LOL Don't get mad at me for being me. 1. I was being me. You were mad at me for me being me. Don't be a hypocryte. 2. You were never joking or just trying to piss people off. You heartily felt that I was rude and I was being pessimistic. Then when you got replies that made you look like a complete fool, you try to pull this joke. How pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickR Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Emon dude, Chill! Most mod teams will have SoftImage by now. If not by borrowing means then by warez means. Either way it won't be hard to get a hold of. And about the animations, yeah your right about how long it would take to do each animation, but coding new anims will be a simple cut and paste joby. But if you think about it, how many times do you think Raven kept having to redo the animation code and the actual animations to get the saber system working properly? Quite a few times I imagine. We won't have that problem. Finally, not all of us are as lazy as you probably are. I for one like dedicating my time to game/mod development, it helps me learn more about the skills I need to get into the game industry. You are right about the DLL disassembling though. It's virtually impossible to do and the output would be ni on impossible to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Originally posted by NickR Most mod teams will have SoftImage by now. If not by borrowing means then by warez means. Either way it won't be hard to get a hold of. There are about one or two mod teams that CLAIM to have SoftImage, and they probably don't. No one wants to pay thousands of dollars for it, I think it's around 10K for it. Warez? Ha, no. To my knowledge there has never been a successful warez of SoftImage, the protection is THAT good. I mean this is stuff that ILM used to make EP1 and EP2, it's not easy to come by. And about Raven... Well Raven has a team of HIRED people who are PROFESSIONALS, plus they payed tens of thousands of dollars to get most of the animations motion captured at the House of Moves in, I think, California. I'm not trying to stop this stuff from happening at all. I think tons of new anims will be great. But I'm being realistic, hardly anyone has SoftImage, and if they do, they probably won't be able to do much with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITEMARE Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 AMEN! NickR, just tell me what mod u made so far and then i'll take u serious. beeing realistic about things is good, but do not to an extreme. that however did not happen, tho emon had to chill u guys out before u waste your time on unreachable dreams and after realizing how futile it was just turn your back on the moding thing or what? thats a bad thing going on, if people are reaching for things they just cant at the moment instead of working with stuff we have and can do. its hard enough to do the little things. and we have to use the enthusiasm aslong as it lasts for things we actually can achieve AND enjoy them! like me: never wanted to snoop into coding things, but i have a server and was very unhappy with things. then the source code came out and i started looking around for stuff i can change by my own, little things but effective tho. like damage values and stuff. with time it became more and more, but i see the end of this since i cant code and wont learn it. mapping is hard enough and important too. its nice that some people have long time plans for mods/tc but the current gameplay is not improving from utopic ideas, but from practical realistic ideas that dont require alot but change alot. and if the gameplay does not get some modifications...well enthusiasm will fade mabe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skew Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 re decompiling: Each compiler does its own optimizations and in different cases. But, compilation is still a set of discrete steps. If you knew these steps, decompiling should be trivial. Im sure someone frequenting these forums could further shed some light on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monder Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 skew:You are assuming all processes are reversable. But they're not. If you square a number you can't the original answer back. Why? Cause the square root of a number and it's negative equivilent are the same. So i've given you an example of one reversable process. Compiling and linking are very complicated processes. I seriously doubt anyone will ever make a perfect decompiler(well for a no-debug version of an exe). And anyway I don't know if compiling has some irreversable processes like the sqauring thing I mentioned but if it does there will never be a perfect decompiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodus Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Err, before I came to Jedi Outcast, I used to work as a news updator on a fansite for Westwood's Command and Conquer: Renegade, and I remember hearing that one guy managed to disassemble a DLL file (Westwood gave us an incredibly ****ty mod editor, so we tried to do things by force) I think he even gave a link to his disassembler.... I'll try and dig it up for you guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I can dissassemble DLLs and EXEs, too. Do you know what it dissassembles it into? Nothing be hexidecimal stuff. It's only useful for changing text values and making no CD cracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourwood Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Originally posted by Emon Warez? Ha, no. To my knowledge there has never been a successful warez of SoftImage, the protection is THAT good. Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monder Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 You can get things that convert asm into c. So you effectivly decomplile into c. Only instead of unreadable asm you get unreadable c. You may be able to do something really small but definetely not make an entire mod. Oh and you probably won't be able to recompile disassembled stuff anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samamorgan Posted July 1, 2002 Author Share Posted July 1, 2002 You cant make me look like an idiot. I cant be embarassed. Im on an online forum! I dont know you. I responded to the lack of hope and total lack of respect to others that i saw. You in fact insulted people and probably pissed them off in one way or another by stamping out thier ideas before they could even try them. Let things be, and hold your tounge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipe Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Warez? Ha, no. To my knowledge there has never been a successful warez of SoftImage, the protection is THAT good. Trinity managed to warez XSI 2.01, but it did take them 3 months. I've also seen XSI 1.5 floating around. Regardless, even if you acquire the program, the learning curve is ridiculously high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITEMARE Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 i bet he wasnt even close to beeing rude enough to please my hunger for telling those stupid trend hype f.u.c.k.ups how useless their ideas are if they wont have a chance to try it. should he say: yeah why not, try it out! ? thats not construktive, since its better to pull them dreamers back to earth befor they give up jk2 and do nothing but dreaming until they realise how futile it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skew Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Monder, Good point. Decompiling the .dlls and .sos would probably be a tad bit more difficult than I originally thought.. although I dont think the square root example would directly apply I was thinking, though, that since most java .classes can be decompiled because 1) the instructions that the interpreter expects must be the same across platforms (assuming the interpreter inserts the usual system specifics) and 2) because its a controlled execution environment, maybe the .qvm files would be easier to decompile than system specific libraries? Afterall, the .qvms are handled similarly to the way .classes are handled within the jvm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monder Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Dunno how qvm's actually work. I would reackon they're a modified dll. If they're not and they're like java classes then yes a decompile would be greatly simplified. Though sp code is in a dll and all the mp code is in qvm. So there's no point in decompiling qvm's. We already have the source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Originally posted by jipe Trinity managed to warez XSI 2.01, but it did take them 3 months. I've also seen XSI 1.5 floating around. Regardless, even if you acquire the program, the learning curve is ridiculously high. Exactly, 3 months. Not to mention that the vast majority of people wouldn't know where to begin to crack that thing. I don't know your problem is, sama. Apparently you think that all these mods teams just go, "Click click click, hey we have an entire TC with tons of models, textures, sounds and hundreds of animations!" and you apparently think that I'm trying to stop mods from happening. I'm not. However I'm trying to make people aware of the very high difficulty it is to do this things. If I don't (or even if I do) chances are they'll start working on the mod, get a few things done, then when it comes to something like animations or SP coding, they'll be at a stalemate and won't be able to continue. Thus all their previous work will be useless or almost useless. This is the stuff I'm trying to prevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickR Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Guess what Emon... my mod teams lead concept artist has a friend in texas who owns a motion capture studio. Is this true? Fraid SO!! And do we have SoftImage XSI? Yes... We DO! You see our lead concept artists Father had a copy which we are using for our new anims which are being recorded at the motion capture studio. And also, the Raven programmer Munroe is working on a gla 2 xsi converter so that we have access to all the original humanoid anims. Do you still want to be "realistic" and say its not possible? I laugh in the face of ignorance!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipe Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Congratulations on your good fortune.. but don't be so dense as to think that your scenario is likely - something like that is in the minority and Emon is talking about the majority. Most people don't have opportunities even close to what you're getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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