My Rant about Force Powers

[UgonDieFoo]

Here are a few ideas on what might be done to improve gameplay in JK2 in terms of force powers.

 

Push / Pull

 

Raven defintitely fixed the issue of people pulling and backstabbing or pushing each other all the time in 1.04. The problem is that Raven fixed it a little too much because now push and pull are kinda useless (except on maps with cliffs, or a in saber lock) since you can hardly knock people down any more. This was a good element that was almost completely removed because of how it was abused all of the time by so many. Unfortunately the latest changes to push / pull have removed this important dimmension of combat in JK2. Anyway, here is what could be done to help improve push and pull while still not making them “abuseable” like they were before:

 

Make it so that that you can knock someone down with Push or Pull provided they have less than half their force. Also, increase the knockdown time to something more like the way they used to be (so it’s worth the force to push or pull someone in the first place).

 

As it stands right now, if two people have equal rank in push or pull, they can’t knock each other down. This system is bad becasue people with equal rank just nulify each other completely. If the above change were made, it would improve gameplay because push and pull could be used strategicly. For example, push and pull would be more effective against someone who continually “spams” lightning. Also, the above change would help to restore the few “offensive” force options a light side user had. And it would still be balanced because someone using absorb wouldn’t have a total advantage over another person unless they were careless with their force management. And when it comes to the dreaded pull and backstab combo, well the problem lies with backstab, not with force pull. You shouldn’t be able to backtab someone who’s lying down in the first place.

 

Heal

 

It just costs too much and gives to little. You can’t really use it unless you’re by yourself in a corner somewhere because it costs too much force and leaves you to vulnerable.

 

It needs to be changed to somethin like:

Level 1 - gives 5 health; costs 1/3 force meter

Level 2 - gives 10 health; costs 1/3 force meter

Level 3 - gives 20 health; costs 1/3 force meter

 

Or maybe:

 

Level 1 – gives 5 health; costs ¼ force meter

Level 2 – gives 10 health; costs ¼ force meter

Level 3 – gives 15 health; costs ¼ force meter

 

Heal’s biggest problem is that it costs too much. Even if it were adjusted to give even less health, it would be a much better power to use provided the cost was lowered. That way it could actually be used effectively in combat without making it unfair.

 

Drain:

 

I’m willing to bet that many people won’t like what I’m about to proprose but I feel compeled to do so anyway. Back in 1.02 drain was very unfair because one could simply drain an opponent down to no force at a little cost to themselves. The drainer would then be able to initiate other force attacks against a defensless opponent. This problem was mostly remedied when drain was adjusted to cost much more force in 1.03.

 

While it is no longer possible to fully drain someone and then initiate other attacks, a problem with drain still remains. The problem occurs when one person fully drains their opponent. When this happens the drainer will be down to ¼ of their force and the victim will be down to nothing because drain takes away more force that it costs. What then usually happens is the drainer holds their opponent in “Drain Check” by continually draining his opponent as soon as the casting delay wears off. The problem is that it is impossible for the victim to escape from “Drain Check” because they can’t build up enough force

to counter. In fact it is possible to hold someone in drain check indefinitely in the maner I just described. I have seen this scenario played out over and over in full force duels (especially in dark vs dark battles.) I have also been involved in many such drain battles. When you’re on the loosing side of a Drain Check fight, there is nothing you can do but run backwards and wait for your opponent to get tired of hitting drain or go for the kill. And it is very difficult to kill someone who is continually taking health from you every second or so while you have no force available to you. The winner of the drain fight is allmost garrunteed to be the winner of the match because of this. In summary, a match can be virtually decided by who drains their opponent first and keeps on doing it.

 

To remedy this drain should simply be adjusted so that it can’t take an opponents force lower than the ¼ mark (or whatever amount it is that a person normally retains when they fully use powers like lightning, absorb etc.) That way, it would no longer be possible to hold someone in an indefinite drain check. Example: If person 1 drains person 2, then person 2 would be able to drain person 1 right back while the casting delay wears off. At least it would be balanced that way. Also, if it were possible to actually knock an opponent down with less than half their force using push or pull (as I suggested) then the someone without drain could use push or pull against someone who always uses all their force draining. And a person using absorb would have just enough force to activate it to discourage their opponet from draining them.

 

Dark Rage

 

This one is pretty obvious. It just costs too much health to be worth its benefits. Nobody is going to even bother to fight you while your flashing red, running around at 2 times the speed and swinging your saber like a madman. They are just gonna back away from you till rage wears off and then kill you because you’re down to 20 health. There are two ways to make rage better:

 

There first one is to make it drain less health. Perhaps 60 rather than 80 all of the time. As it stands, nobody uses rage because it takes just too much health.

 

And here’s the second solution:

 

Reduce some of the bonuses. Make it so that you only move 25% faster and remove the reduced damage bonus. BUT get rid of the whole loosing health thing.

 

I personaly think the second option would be a great way of improving dark rage. If the dark side is supposed to be offensive then dark rage should be a strictly offensive ability. Right now dark rage isn’t offensive or defensive. It’s a big mix up of great bonuses and terrible drawbacks that pretty much even out to something that’s less than useful or practical. In fact many would say its just plain suicidal. The second option would make dark rage true to the dark side of the force if I dare say so. Dark rage would be great if it gave a number of decent bonuses like 25 % increased run speed, 25% faster attack rate, and just maybe a new damage bonus to saber attacks or something like that. In fact it would be even better if it wasn’t so apparent when someone was using rage (the whole flashing red thing). The first thing almost all people do when they see someone initiate rage is run and wait till it wears off. This is another element that reduces dark rage’s effectivness. It would be more effective if you could surprise someone with a sudden burst of speed and power that couldn’t be detected until you begin to attack. Perhaps it should only make noise instead of lighting you up like a match.

 

Well that’s all I hafta say about force powers. I think that these changes would help to balance things out a little more and improve gameplay overall. I tried to be as objective as possible when thinking of these changes. I hope that many of you agree with me. If you do then I strongly encourage you to say so. Perahps Raven will take notice. If you dissagree, then I encourage you to say so as well if you feel you have good reason. I’m curious as to what people think.

[ZBomber]

Good points....

[Sith Maximus]

All good points and well though out. But I do have a few points to make. I hear a lot of complaining on how the force powers are unbalanced but in my opinion this is just not true.

 

Push and pull do work in the ways that you describe but are still a good offensive/defensive weapon when used properly. Instead of spamming pull along with other moves you now must do it at the right time to make it effective. You must have force power in your meter to deter anothr player from pulling/pushing you. So as with everthing in this game timing is everything.

 

Drain is a counter to heal and to absorb. As a player who is of the dark side nothing is more annoying to me that a player who runs around glowing blue all of the time. But if you can catch that player off guard and start to drain him then you have a chance at a force kill. Heal does cost alot but it is so easy to use that it should cost this much. You can go and hide in a corner for a few minutes and get all of your health back without putting yourself in any danger, unlike drain. I think all of these powers are at a comfortable level as they are right now.

 

As you have stated darl rage is a useless power. It is just too easy to avoid and costs far too much to use. I have never used this power after my inital try in a lan server with bots. I am not sure what they need to do with this but possibly replacing this power with a different one would be a start .

 

I know that no new force powers will be added, but all of the lightside powers are usefull while Dark rage continues to be a hinderance to the dark side.

 

Also I think the last thing we really need is another patch. Leave it the way it is until an addon pack is released or jk3 comes out.

 

Thanks for the great post, even if I do not agree with you.

[InfErnO]

Originally posted by UgonDieFoo

Here are a few ideas on what might be done to improve gameplay in JK2 in terms of force powers.

 

Push / Pull

 

Raven defintitely fixed the issue of people pulling and backstabbing or pushing each other all the time in 1.04. The problem is that Raven fixed it a little too much because now push and pull are kinda useless (except on maps with cliffs, or a in saber lock) since you can hardly knock people down any more. This was a good element that was almost completely removed because of how it was abused all of the time by so many. Unfortunately the latest changes to push / pull have removed this important dimmension of combat in JK2. Anyway, here is what could be done to help improve push and pull while still not making them “abuseable” like they were before:

 

Make it so that that you can knock someone down with Push or Pull provided they have less than half their force. Also, increase the knockdown time to something more like the way they used to be (so it’s worth the force to push or pull someone in the first place).

 

As it stands right now, if two people have equal rank in push or pull, they can’t knock each other down. This system is bad becasue people with equal rank just nulify each other completely. If the above change were made, it would improve gameplay because push and pull could be used strategicly. For example, push and pull would be more effective against someone who continually “spams” lightning. Also, the above change would help to restore the few “offensive” force options a light side user had. And it would still be balanced because someone using absorb wouldn’t have a total advantage over another person unless they were careless with their force management. And when it comes to the dreaded pull and backstab combo, well the problem lies with backstab, not with force pull. You shouldn’t be able to backtab someone who’s lying down in the first place.

 

Heal

 

It just costs too much and gives to little. You can’t really use it unless you’re by yourself in a corner somewhere because it costs too much force and leaves you to vulnerable.

 

It needs to be changed to somethin like:

Level 1 - gives 5 health; costs 1/3 force meter

Level 2 - gives 10 health; costs 1/3 force meter

Level 3 - gives 20 health; costs 1/3 force meter

 

Or maybe:

 

Level 1 – gives 5 health; costs ¼ force meter

Level 2 – gives 10 health; costs ¼ force meter

Level 3 – gives 15 health; costs ¼ force meter

 

Heal’s biggest problem is that it costs too much. Even if it were adjusted to give even less health, it would be a much better power to use provided the cost was lowered. That way it could actually be used effectively in combat without making it unfair.

 

Drain:

 

I’m willing to bet that many people won’t like what I’m about to proprose but I feel compeled to do so anyway. Back in 1.02 drain was very unfair because one could simply drain an opponent down to no force at a little cost to themselves. The drainer would then be able to initiate other force attacks against a defensless opponent. This problem was mostly remedied when drain was adjusted to cost much more force in 1.03.

 

While it is no longer possible to fully drain someone and then initiate other attacks, a problem with drain still remains. The problem occurs when one person fully drains their opponent. When this happens the drainer will be down to ¼ of their force and the victim will be down to nothing because drain takes away more force that it costs. What then usually happens is the drainer holds their opponent in “Drain Check” by continually draining his opponent as soon as the casting delay wears off. The problem is that it is impossible for the victim to escape from “Drain Check” because they can’t build up enough force

to counter. In fact it is possible to hold someone in drain check indefinitely in the maner I just described. I have seen this scenario played out over and over in full force duels (especially in dark vs dark battles.) I have also been involved in many such drain battles. When you’re on the loosing side of a Drain Check fight, there is nothing you can do but run backwards and wait for your opponent to get tired of hitting drain or go for the kill. And it is very difficult to kill someone who is continually taking health from you every second or so while you have no force available to you. The winner of the drain fight is allmost garrunteed to be the winner of the match because of this. In summary, a match can be virtually decided by who drains their opponent first and keeps on doing it.

 

To remedy this drain should simply be adjusted so that it can’t take an opponents force lower than the ¼ mark (or whatever amount it is that a person normally retains when they fully use powers like lightning, absorb etc.) That way, it would no longer be possible to hold someone in an indefinite drain check. Example: If person 1 drains person 2, then person 2 would be able to drain person 1 right back while the casting delay wears off. At least it would be balanced that way. Also, if it were possible to actually knock an opponent down with less than half their force using push or pull (as I suggested) then the someone without drain could use push or pull against someone who always uses all their force draining. And a person using absorb would have just enough force to activate it to discourage their opponet from draining them.

 

Dark Rage

 

This one is pretty obvious. It just costs too much health to be worth its benefits. Nobody is going to even bother to fight you while your flashing red, running around at 2 times the speed and swinging your saber like a madman. They are just gonna back away from you till rage wears off and then kill you because you’re down to 20 health. There are two ways to make rage better:

 

There first one is to make it drain less health. Perhaps 60 rather than 80 all of the time. As it stands, nobody uses rage because it takes just too much health.

 

And here’s the second solution:

 

Reduce some of the bonuses. Make it so that you only move 25% faster and remove the reduced damage bonus. BUT get rid of the whole loosing health thing.

 

I personaly think the second option would be a great way of improving dark rage. If the dark side is supposed to be offensive then dark rage should be a strictly offensive ability. Right now dark rage isn’t offensive or defensive. It’s a big mix up of great bonuses and terrible drawbacks that pretty much even out to something that’s less than useful or practical. In fact many would say its just plain suicidal. The second option would make dark rage true to the dark side of the force if I dare say so. Dark rage would be great if it gave a number of decent bonuses like 25 % increased run speed, 25% faster attack rate, and just maybe a new damage bonus to saber attacks or something like that. In fact it would be even better if it wasn’t so apparent when someone was using rage (the whole flashing red thing). The first thing almost all people do when they see someone initiate rage is run and wait till it wears off. This is another element that reduces dark rage’s effectivness. It would be more effective if you could surprise someone with a sudden burst of speed and power that couldn’t be detected until you begin to attack. Perhaps it should only make noise instead of lighting you up like a match.

 

Well that’s all I hafta say about force powers. I think that these changes would help to balance things out a little more and improve gameplay overall. I tried to be as objective as possible when thinking of these changes. I hope that many of you agree with me. If you do then I strongly encourage you to say so. Perahps Raven will take notice. If you dissagree, then I encourage you to say so as well if you feel you have good reason. I’m curious as to what people think.

 

 

jk2 sux balls, just like your post and everyone who reads it.

[Ikhnaton]

inferno, try to keep your posts constructive

[Sith Maximus]

Originally posted by InfErnO

 

 

jk2 sux balls, just like your post and everyone who reads it.

 

If it does then why are you here and why do you have 90 posts? Guess your just another 12yr old moron. Go and play Counterstrike with the rest of the kiddies!

[InfErnO]

Originally posted by Sith Maximus

 

If it does then why are you here and why do you have 90 posts? Guess your just another 12yr old moron. Go and play Counterstrike with the rest of the kiddies!

 

To answer your questions, I'm here to post that jk2 sucks balls. I used to post for JK1 in these forums and it took me like 3 years to get 90 posts.

 

Also, I don't play Counterstrike.

[Sith Maximus]

Why post at all if it is not for any helpfull reason?

[graigsmith]

dark rage is useless? are you daft?

 

you must not be aware that it makes you immune to death?

 

yes thats right dark rage makes you immune.. its really like dark sides absorb.. it absorbs all physical damage.. but i will agree it takes too much force to use..

[UgonDieFoo]

I don't think it does.

[TheWhiteRaider]

Originally posted by InfErnO

 

To answer your questions, I'm here to post that jk2 sucks balls. I used to post for JK1 in these forums and it took me like 3 years to get 90 posts.

 

Also, I don't play Counterstrike.

 

IF you don't like the game GET THE HELL OUT OF THE FORUM!!!!!!!

We might like the game and you can hate it all you want, but I don't want to hear it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was making some points about the force powers and you come in and spam. Just get lost!!!!!!

[Kurgan]

Watch it Inferno, we don't take kindly to trolls here. I'm sure there's plenty of other forums you can hang around with. ; p

 

In regard to Drain vs. Absorb, what you say only works if the person's level of Absorb is lower than your level of Drain.

 

Drain 3 vs. Absorb 3 is useless. And the blow glow only flares up when you're attacked by the force in 1.04. I think the Force powers are fairly well balanced. It's the saber I have some issues with (I think for all out battles it was better in 1.02). But I can adapt...