1.04 - Raven needs to put out something better then this.

[FatalStrike]

I am always told that 1.04 now requires players to show “more skill” in order to succeed then it did in 1.02. So I have been playing 1.04 in hopes of discovering that this claim is in fact rooted in truth. Unfortunately I have found the opposite. One example..

 

_______________________________________

 

Playing saber only CTF-

Blue flag carrier was surround by red player (5 of them) he stood still with his saber out and back to the wall (top of blue base). 25 seconds of hacking by the 5 red players, the blue guy was stuck and I was standing on his head so as to prevent him from jumping. He finally got loose and I asked him what his hp was. He still had 90 HP, apparently this “skill” blocking system blocked EVERYONES hits MOST of the time.

 

So even though he was surrounded, stuck, and struck for almost half a minute by 5 players. TWO hits went past his AUTOMATIC (i.e. no activity from player) defense.

_________________________________________

 

I am sorry but this is NOT skilled version. You can’t tell me that a patch that allows this is meant to make the game more difficult, it is simply designed to make players last longer. This guy DID NOTHING and survived a LAPD style beat down.

 

Yes I know that servers out there can reduce blocking but out of 15 I went to, 1 had settings changed. And ladders use 1.04 settings. So sorry people but I have seen it with my own eyes many times, this version is CRAP. Defend it all you want but you can't deny that it is too easy to stay alive when by all rights you should be stone cold DEAD!

 

 

The only fun challenge in 1.04 so far is David v Goliath fights when using JediMod v1.2. Nothing is a funny as kicking a Giants foot and having him be thrown to the ground, hahaha.

 

-Fatal Out

[Psionic Jedi]

Thats why in Saberonly Duels, attacking causes your defenses to lower... if you stand still in a saber duel doing nothing, you'll be holding up the line and pissing people off, at which point your opponent can just do BS 3x and finish off your idle body ;D.

 

Really though, what do you suggest? Inconsistent blocking? Disabling of Force Saber Def in servers? Or a new patch that is rumored to fix blocking but screw up something else? :X

 

This is why alot (not all) of people have converted to Red Stance; it pierces defenses much easier and does damage while at it. Medium and Light can be blocked 90% of the time.

[KurganQ2]

it's true...if they had just made a manual block for the DFA overhead strike and left 1.02 all would be fine...but this is a real mess 1.03 and 1.04 are horrific and skill-less.

 

my girlfriend's brother wins every FFA he is on and he does NOTHING but the dfa and he can't beat me maybe 1 in 20 in a duel...proving that this is skill-less playing now

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by Psionic Jedi

Thats why in Saberonly Duels, attacking causes your defenses to lower... if you stand still in a saber duel doing nothing, you'll be holding up the line and pissing people off, at which point your opponent can just do BS 3x and finish off your idle body ;D.

 

You are right attacking lowers your defense. But if you stand still when over taken in FFA you have an instant "get out of death free card." Try it, I did and it works like a charm.

 

Originally posted by Psionic Jedi

Really though, what do you suggest? Inconsistent blocking? Disabling of Force Saber Def in servers? Or a new patch that is rumored to fix blocking but screw up something else? :X

 

I suggest a SMALL blockng arc that only blocks FORWARD, so that you have actually DO SOMETHING to defend yourself. Besides I agree with you the patches caused more problems then they fixed. Maybe we should have spoken up when the noobs demanded changes that would benefit weak players exclusively. After all good players didn't NEED any of this to do well.

 

Originally posted by Psionic Jedi

This is why alot (not all) of people have converted to Red Stance; it pierces defenses much easier and does damage while at it. Medium and Light can be blocked 90% of the time.

 

Heavy has advantages but the defense still blocks you. Besides your foot speed is incredibly slow whil swinging in Heavy stance. Making for slower duels, gee what fun.

 

Also is it just me or is there something wrong with winning a all out 30 minute FFA saber only with 11 kills? I have done this over 20 times. People just hack away at eachother with little or no effect. In fact it is easy for anyone to NEVER die in a FFA by simply breaking off combat and getting a health item when running low. And this is better then the Heal spamming for 1.02? At least then only a smale number of people would live forever, now anyone with half a brain can.

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by KurganQ2

it's true...if they had just made a manual block for the DFA overhead strike and left 1.02 all would be fine...but this is a real mess 1.03 and 1.04 are horrific and skill-less.

 

They should have upped the strength of blue a tiny bit.

 

Increased the blocking arc a tiny bit. (1.02 blocking is a joke)

 

Removed the splash effect of the DFA and made it harmless on the ground. But not remove its turning AND increase recovery time, that was going to far.

 

And last made ALL moves blockable, period. The catch being that you had to block forward and palyers could land hits on your sides forcing you to move at all times to defend yourself.

 

Note that all these changes were pretty minor, what they did was try to redesign a already great game. They pushed thier luck too far.

 

 

Originally posted by KurganQ2

my girlfriend's brother wins every FFA he is on and he does NOTHING but the dfa and he can't beat me maybe 1 in 20 in a duel...proving that this is skill-less playing now

 

Yup! In 1.02 noobs could get a lot of kills with DFA and BS but a good player would always win if he tried to. You could CLEARLY see the difference between the two, now that line has become blurred.

[Caster]

I've notice there'd quite a bit of moves that can get pass some ones standing still doing nothing.

 

The three specials first of all. Lunge, DFA and flip-overhead swing. Though they will do less damage if the defender is standing still and blocking.

 

Also, light stance backstab will also do damage. Even though it does get blocked, it's never parried. So the defender will end up having their saber knocked off to the side and if they stand still, the attacking saber will stay stuck in the defender's gut.

 

In my opinion, heavy stance also has about a 15 to 20 percent chance of going through some one's blocks and doing very much full damage. The forward downward and diagonal slashes seems to have a higher chances.

 

But of course, if you people are so skilled, you'd know all of this already ^_~

[razorace]

So even though he was surrounded, stuck, and struck for almost half a minute by 5 players. TWO hits went past his AUTOMATIC (i.e. no activity from player) defense.

 

Trust me, that's due to the crappy lag - damage tolerance for the game. The worst the lag, the more often damage reports wrong. If you tried that on a LAN you'd cut the dude down in seconds.

[krazypenguin]

1.04 force you to be more skilled in NF duels. Just cause you win a FFA map doesn't mean you're good, usually it just means you're pretty good at spamming moves.

 

That's all FFA is kids.

[Psionic Jedi]

Originally posted by Caster

In my opinion, heavy stance also has about a 15 to 20 percent chance of going through some one's blocks and doing very much full damage. The forward downward and diagonal slashes seems to have a higher chances.

 

Right+Attack move on Heavy knocks aside saber at far range and at close range deals lots of damage... combine that with a combo SECOND swing and you're dealing your 20% + another heavy swing going through clean.

 

Forward and diagonal slashes may pierce defenses and deal damage more often, but their chances of even hitting the enemy are slimmer than a broad sidesweep attack. I would use it if the fool was to engage a Heavy user head to head.

[FatalStrike]

hahaha

 

I see all these people writing in about what you have to do to break thru defenses and I see "Special moves" and "15%-20% chances" and all this other crap and you guys TOTALLY ARE PROVING MY POINT.

 

Everyone is writing down different ways to kill someone that is doing absolutely NOTHING. You don't see something wrong with a person doing nothing and requiring you to do all these special tactics to score a hit. Bah!

 

You people will except anything Raven gives you.

 

Also its getting really annoying that our of 20 servers I go to 15 have different settings. I never realized how F'ed up everything became in the world of 1.04. I will be going back to 1.02 soon but I have had the lovely chance of shutting up so many trash talking duelist's. Apparently my parry skills learned in 1.02 work wonders in 1.04. I never need my stupid defense since most never land a clean hit.

 

lol if 1.04 players went back to 1.02 most of you would be cut down. That not trash talk but I fear that your footwork has been hurt by this defense. I don't claim to be the best player but Blue lunge against a 1.02 vet? hahaha never happen.

[razorace]

 

[sarcasm Mode]

 

Oh, yeah. That's a good idea. Go back to a obsolite patch where all your mods don't work just to spurn Raven. That'll work

 

[/sarcasm Mode]

[Canis_Aureus]

I played on a low blocking server yesterday and it really sucked... you could never be sure that you blocked... it might be a temporary solution for the insane blocking in 1.04 but it does't work corectly because people will just flail around like idiots as they know something will get through.

 

I suggest that they make you parry 100% of the time, but the the arc of parry is made smaller (just as FatalStrike suggested). And yes we see people spamming DFA all over the place because of this and they win. I win quite a few matches too but I do it by kicking people to death.

 

Using the sabers regular attacks simply takes too long... when I hit them I have to go through 100+ shield too most of the time. DFA them and they die or give them 6 kicks and they are dead too. I really don't like the shields... the super shield is something that belongs in Doom... it just feels out of place here. If you have 100/25 you still won't get killed by a single standart red attack, but if you have lots of shield then fighting is just a waste of time.

And seeing someone blocking your attack when you attack them from behind... arrrggghhh they are crouched and block your attack from behind.

 

The worst problem though in CTF is people camping health and shield... well this is a problem in all saber only games really. People running away for health is also a problem... if we all did this all the time no one would ever die except by DFA. So the health and shields littering the maps are a serious problem IMO. Just try fighting and everytime you are getting low on shield you run away... I am quite sure you won't die a single time unless you are unlucky or have a bad day... and this really suck! There should be no shields and health in saber only fights.... drain/heal should be enough... although they could make a crouch and heal option.

 

- Lower the arc of parry... it must be well over 180 degrees now... perhaps 100 would be better so you actually have to look at your opponent to parry him.

 

There already is a way to manually parry the specials.. it's so easy. When someone DFA me I just kick them... I take almost no damage and they get hit for 20 directly on theyr health. You have to do time it though or they might hit you in the air - but it's easy really... the red special is the hardest, but the others are no problem at all. 75% os the time I can kick a DFA'er back without getting too hurt... and I use this tactic because it is a free and easy kick to their face.

 

I think we need to make a "Wishlist for 1.05" thread.

[razorace]

The problem isn't the actual block mechinics, it's the way lag screws up the damage detection....

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by Canis_Aureus

I suggest that they make you parry 100% of the time, but the the arc of parry is made smaller (just as FatalStrike suggested). And yes we see people spamming DFA all over the place because of this and they win.

........people camping health and shield... well this is a problem in all saber only games really. People running away for health is also a problem... if we all did this all the time no one would ever die except by DFA. So the health and shields littering the maps are a serious problem IMO. Just try fighting and everytime you are getting low on shield you run away... I am quite sure you won't die a single time unless you are unlucky or have a bad day... and this really suck! There should be no shields and health in saber only fights..

 

I'm not going to mess with Fatal today , so I'll just comment on what Canis said:

 

Right on!!!

 

My thoughts EXACTLY! (see, this way I don't have to agree with Fatal directly.. )

 

The powerups! Oh man, they make JO a spamming contest. Only a moron dies of something other than a (one-hit-kill) DFA. The result? >> a dozen bunnyhoppers DFA'ing 24/7 hoping to get lucky.

 

(not all maps are like this, but you guys know which ones I mean..)

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by razorace

The problem isn't the actual block mechinics, it's the way lag screws up the damage detection....

 

You said this before and you are wrong. I have played on a server my where my ping was 40, the guy running it (2 ping). The same things happen, so stop pointing the finger at lag ok!

 

Canis_Aureus I agree with you.

[razorace]

Did any of the other players have a ping over 150? I know it's not the core blocking system thou as it works great on bot matches and LAN games. I've only experienced this problem on net games with lag.

 

Hell, in LAN / bot games, you can "feel" it when a player strafes outside your defensive arc and slashes you.

[Caster]

Originally posted by FatalStrike

Everyone is writing down different ways to kill someone that is doing absolutely NOTHING. You don't see something wrong with a person doing nothing and requiring you to do all these special tactics to score a hit. Bah!

 

I wouldn't say they're doing "nothing". I'd say they were "standing defensively."

 

Think about it. These are huge fighters with light sabers, rockets, blasters and other dangerous killing things. You're not taking a stroll through the park.

 

Acting/standing/walking/running defensively is something you'd be doing by default. And so Raven decide it would be a good idea to spare the players a spare finger and keyboard key and having the players automatically be in a defensive posture when they're not doing anything else (mainly, attacking with their lightsaber).

 

I've tried playing the game with manual blocking (in SP), but I found it to very difficult because I wasn't able to quickly and effectively strafe, roll, jump and many other movements that required two or more fingers since one of them would be occupied with holding down the blockl key down.

[Canis_Aureus]

I agree. Manual blocking would be hell and really destroy the game... with the fast pace of the game plus lag is is simply not possible... even in a slower game as Rune manual blocking doesn't work... no one cares about blocking... it's all about attacking.

[graigsmith]

i agree with you guys.. the game does seem skill-less now.. its pointless to play.. theres no fun.. i dont like multiplayer now. and i dont play it.

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by Caster

 

I wouldn't say they're doing "nothing". I'd say they were "standing defensively."

 

Call it what you want but the end result is that you (the player) do nothing and get one heck of a defense that even blocks behind you some of the time.

 

 

Originally posted by Caster

I've tried playing the game with manual blocking (in SP), but I found it to very difficult because I wasn't able to quickly and effectively strafe, roll, jump and many other movements that required two or more fingers since one of them would be occupied with holding down the blockl key down.

 

I agree I would hate to see a blocking key. That is not the answer. I just think that the blocking acr should be smaller. NO blocking on your sides, NO blocking on your back.

 

I simply think you should have to work at your defense a little more. If I get around you when you miss and strike at your side or back, I should hit you 100% of the time. There is no reason why you should be able to block when your saber is no where near the area I am striking at.

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by graigsmith

i agree with you guys.. the game does seem skill-less now.. its pointless to play.. theres no fun.. i dont like multiplayer now. and i dont play it.

 

Before anyone flames this guy, please notice how many servers have NOT gone to 1.04 or have disappeared all together.

 

Many players feel the way this guy does, and it hurts us all when lots of players leave. We have less people to kill, and less servers to kill them on.

[razorace]

I simply think you should have to work at your defense a little more. If I get around you when you miss and strike at your side or back, I should hit you 100% of the time. There is no reason why you should be able to block when your saber is no where near the area I am striking at.

 

That already applies, you just gotta be a LPB vs. other LPBs to see it.

 

Sides, you're suppose to be a Jedi, shouldn't you be able to block inhumanly well?

[Homosexual Ewok]

Originally posted by FatalStrike

 

Before anyone flames this guy, please notice how many servers have NOT gone to 1.04 or have disappeared all together.

 

Many players feel the way this guy does, and it hurts us all when lots of players leave. We have less people to kill, and less servers to kill them on.

LAPD beat down, lol that was pretty good.

 

Anyways, yeah a lot of people have left because of the continued "dumbing down" of the game.

Granted, Raven could put out a "placebo" patch (that did nothing but change the version #) and people would cry about it, but some people are always looking for something to complain about.

 

I know I have continued to lose interest in this game after each patch.

Now you might say something along the lines of "That's because you had no skill and couldn't adjust".

 

Nope, I adjusted better and faster that 95% of the people I played against.

Winning has never been a challenge.

 

Actually having a match with an opponent that did not end up being a game of "Land X move first and win" has become rare and almost non existent.

 

Now you're probably going to say "That's what these patches did, they removed super moves and brought balance".

 

Nope again.

There will always be something that can be used by smart and resourceful players to best their opponents.

In some games it's a sniper rifle, others it's a rocket launcher; in this one it happened to be moves like the DFA, BS and kicks.

 

As long as you have moves and stances that have differing damage values, people will always flock to the strongest moves.

 

Remove the kicks and people will only use heavy stance, weaken heavy stance people will only use medium, weaken medium, people will only lunge.

 

So let’s just quicken it by petitioning for v1.05 to have only one saber stance and no special moves or damage range differences.

 

Yeah, real fun there.

 

I have almost completely given up FF dueling and moved on to NF duels.

It's not that winning was hard, actually it was ridiculously easy.

It just became so monotonous because so many attacks and offensive moves had been weakened that people became utterly predictable and easy.

 

I can't say I like the slower pace of NF duels, but having to keep on my toes due to the unknown nature of attacks is refreshing.

 

What these patches did was bring the pace of all game types down to that of NF duels.

Now don't get me wrong, there is skill involved in NF dueling, but the slower pace of that game type can't be denied.

 

Certain game types like FF dueling, FFA and CTF are supposed to be faster by nature.

To accomplish this you make killing quick and effective.

By reducing the methods of killing someone quickly, the game type becomes monotonous and to a greater degree, frustrating due to the *expected faster pace.

 

The saber scale stuff can once again make these game types fast, the problem with that is the majority of server admins either do not come here or have no interest or knowledge in the console variables due to 90% of the servers running everything default.

[razorace]

As long as you have moves and stances that have differing damage values, people will always flock to the strongest moves.

 

VERY good point. The different moves and styles should all have an equal number of pros and cons as everyone will naturally gravitate what they feel to has the best pro/con advantage. If something has an obvious advantage, everyone will use it and the game becomes lame quickly (rushing anyone?).

[Homosexual Ewok]

Yeah an argument can be made that these patches did "bring balance" but it was at the cost of the game play pace.

 

While I won't argue that there should not be a "super move" that makes everything else obsolete, I will say that strengthening weaker moves makes for a better alternative to "Nerfing".

 

You don't have to make a game slower to bring balance, people tend to forget that.