Darth Windu Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 For a bit of clarification- -bongo - unarmed submarine transport -with the canon/artillery suggestion - the battles should be fluid for the duration, without the need to deploy canon's. Besides at the moment artillery is outranged by assault mechs, which i think needs to be changed. -with the pummel it could be replaced by a new artillery unit, as suggested above, just give it extra anti-building attack, a melee anti-building unit is just wierd -why would anyone design a piece of military equipment which cant defend itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 Originally posted by Sithmaster_821 Not really, the civs would be different but equal, much like in the games named as examples under unique Those sort of game are all old and have far less gamers than Aom will have, War3 has and the new C&C will have. Everyone likes the civs to be more unique. like team and civ bonuses in CC. Like the MU's in AoM. It would be hard to balance but it seems AoM has done okay. In my opinion SWGB2 should be a new 3d engine. Take some ideas from AoM like choosing gods when you advance. These gods affect the units/building/upgrades avalible and which MU's. Obviously in SWGB it wouldn't be good and myth units it would be things like Research Heavy metal work "allow Airspeders and Hveay weapons" or Heavy organic growth "troopers and trooper UU" Making games more unique is good for RTS. Look at AoK everyone 1v1 i play is Arabia and then skirm wars. Such great fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 I think some sea units are needed. We do have evidence that other civs have water units, in the fact that the Trade Federation was able to invade Otoh Gunga. However, once again the left-overs from AoK has had effects on the ships. Frigate = Galleon Destroyer = Fireship Cruiser = Cannon Galleon I think in the Star Wars universe every civ would have some submarine capability, not just the Gungans. I don't think the artillery's range should be improved if the cannon is taken away. Cannons could really devastate your defences but their weakness was their unpacking. Artillery doesn't have that, so unless you give them a really long reload time, it won't work well. Melee anti-building units sound good, but do they really exist? A battering ram beats down a door, not destroys a whole castle. Pummels just don't fit, expecially in Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 26, 2002 Author Share Posted September 26, 2002 Uhh...ewok that was my point. Unique is the wave of the future. I said that the games under unique did it right, and then you proceeded to say the same thing, critizing me for my standpoint in the proccess. Not trying to be mean, just saying that it seems a little hypocritical. I agree that sea combat should be kept. A game that is all canon is all boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 Unique is the way to go, but there a some things that should probably remain vaguely generic for the sake of game balance and fun. Case in point: Air units. I made up a list in the SW:GB 2 Ideas thread, and I think all civs should have something a lot like that list. There could definitely be differences in stats, speed, etc. but purposes should remain roughly the same. For example, Rebel fighters would be sturdy and have good firepower, Empire fighters would be fast but less armoured and less firepower. They would both still be fighters though! This particular case is not only boosting the canon part of the game (that's what those particular fighters are like) but makes a notable difference between the civs and would make combat between the two far more interesting. The whole thing with aircraft, too, is that everybody buys the same ships. A guy who pilots freighters for the Empire and a guy who pilots freighters for the Rebels would probably buy the same kind of ship, maybe even from the same shipyard. Many ships aren't manufactured by the civ themselves and as such many ships are used by many different civs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 Unique is the way to go, but there a some things that should probably remain vaguely generic for the sake of game balance and fun. Case in point: Air units. I made up a list in the SW:GB 2 Ideas thread, and I think all civs should have something a lot like that list. There could definitely be differences in stats, speed, etc. but purposes should remain roughly the same. For example, Rebel fighters would be sturdy and have good firepower, Empire fighters would be fast but less armoured and less firepower. They would both still be fighters though! This particular case is not only boosting the canon part of the game (that's what those particular fighters are like) but makes a notable difference between the civs and would make combat between the two far more interesting. The whole thing with aircraft, too, is that everybody buys the same ships. A guy who pilots freighters for the Empire and a guy who pilots freighters for the Rebels would probably buy the same kind of ship, maybe even from the same shipyard. Many ships aren't manufactured by the civ themselves and as such many ships are used by many different civs. In other fields, too, much technology is used by different people. A Stormtrooper and a wookie could likely be using the same rifle, manufactured by BlasTech, or some such. Apart from this, differences in unit stats etc. would be cool, but vague purposes should remain the same. They do in other unique games anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 Unique is the way to go, but there a some things that should probably remain vaguely generic for the sake of game balance and fun. Case in point: Air units. I made up a list in the SW:GB 2 Ideas thread, and I think all civs should have something a lot like that list. There could definitely be differences in stats, speed, etc. but purposes should remain roughly the same. For example, Rebel fighters would be sturdy and have good firepower, Empire fighters would be fast but less armoured and less firepower. They would both still be fighters though! This particular case is not only boosting the canon part of the game (that's what those particular fighters are like) but makes a notable difference between the civs and would make combat between the two far more interesting. The whole thing with aircraft, too, is that everybody buys the same ships. A guy who pilots freighters for the Empire and a guy who pilots freighters for the Rebels would probably buy the same kind of ship, maybe even from the same shipyard. Many ships aren't manufactured by the civ themselves and as such many ships are used by many different civs. In other fields, too, much technology is used by different people. A Stormtrooper and a wookie could likely be using the same rifle, manufactured by BlasTech, or some such. Apart from this, differences in unit stats etc. would be cool, but vague purposes should remain the same. They do in other unique-based games anyway, eg. a grunt and a footman are basically multi-purpose basic ground units (they kill things), though one may have a special ability. Edit: Ah hell! I just noticed I posted three times. This was an accident, as a screen kept coming up that said LucasForums' database was offline, or something, so i kept going back and reposting. Oops. Still, this should make you pay all that much more attention........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 Hate it when that happens. Usually I'm lucky and I'll only get the post out once, but sometimes it happens twice. What's worse those is when I type of a very long post and it gets lost. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 Originally posted by Sithmaster_821 Uhh...ewok that was my point. Unique is the wave of the future. I said that the games under unique did it right, and then you proceeded to say the same thing, critizing me for my standpoint in the proccess. Not trying to be mean, just saying that it seems a little hypocritical. I agree that sea combat should be kept. A game that is all canon is all boring. I wasn't critizing you, if i was it wasn't meant. This sort of threads is just peoples opinion No one can be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 27, 2002 Author Share Posted September 27, 2002 Didnt say you were critizing me. Just said we kinda repeated each other. I think you thought i was talking about generic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Okay, I was an advocate for generic unit sets, but I'm coming around to unique unit sets from the arguments here. My problem before was that although the Star Wars armies are all different, I don't think they are different enough to warrant unique unit sets. However, if done properly, I think unique would work. As others have suggested, everyone gets troopers, but for each of the different civs they would have different stats. Everyone gets air (except maybe Gungans, but then you'd need some major balancing), except everyone's air is different. Prices of the units should also reflect this, so fighters with shields cost more than non-sheilded fighters, so weak air have strength in affordable numbers. My other main problem with unique unit sets is that as far as I'm aware, we don't really have the technology available to feasibly fit eight civs worth of unique unit sets in the one game. Hopefully by the time they decide to start making another Star Wars RTS things have changed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Thought I'd add a bit more to this thread, even though it seems it is a bit dead. I've thought a lot about this and basically I think a Star Wars RTS should be a mixture of Generic and Unique. One problem I had with Unique units is that the games I've played with unique units, the different civs operate in completely different ways. Lets take WCIII for example. The different races not only field different units, but build buildings differently, mine resources differently, and are basically totally different. Star Wars civs, although very different in a lot of ways, have similarities. So I think The different civs should operate in the same way, be able to build the same buildings and basic worker units, but then have differing military units. So basically buildings stay the same, and we still have "classes" of units (air, mech, heavy weapon, sea...) but within those classes the units are different from race to race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Well they already are different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 9, 2002 Author Share Posted October 9, 2002 I agree admiral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Yeah, I think that's basically the same idea as I proposed before. Obviously, it's the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 And when was the last time u saw Wookiees building a Republic Troop Center? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 And when was the last time u saw Wookiees building a Republic Troop Center? Euh.. If you're playing with the republic and you're up against a wookiee opponent, you can convert one of their workers and make him build a Republic Troop Center.... About the fact that they should build the same building and yadayadayada...I don't think they should build the same buildings, It would get boring overtime. The units are already different...A little bit...It could work but it would be pretty hard to try and get different kinds of units for each civs.I mean, you can have an anti-infantry mech(strike mech) an anti-mech mech(mech destroyer) and an assault mech....what else? If they need to be different, you would need different classes of mechs.I mean you already have everything within the actual three classes of mechs.Something against infantry, against mechs and hvy weapons, ships, etc. What else? If everyone has different mechs it would come back to the same thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 14, 2002 Author Share Posted October 14, 2002 Not completely different units. Probably units that are already in the game, but with different stats/bonuses. Example: ATAT-would be ~ to current assualt mech but with aa MTT-weak attack, heavy armor/hp and 25 trooper cargo CA Assault tank-sorta heavy strike mech, very good vs troops, kinda fast, expensive, bad vs mechs/buildings ATTE-slow but very good vs mechs as opposed to current assualt mech And you could do this for all of the units, taking some out, adding new ones, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 sithmaster - didnt i already suggest that in a different thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Windu- It was my thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 16, 2002 Author Share Posted October 16, 2002 No you didnt, i suggested this in Luke's thread, then decided that it would make a good thread, so voila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 No, i meant your post about the possible specs of the AT-TE, AT-AT and MTT if SW:GB 2 was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 16, 2002 Author Share Posted October 16, 2002 I posted on luke's thread about changes to units, and used the assualt mechs as an example (just like i did here because they make the best examples of a unique unit set) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 Exactly, Sithmaster. You'd still have units that are good at anti-infantry, or good at anti-mech, etc. but they would be a bit more varied in their stats than the current variations. I'll use Mech-Destroyers for my example: The ones from the movies AAT - This kicked ass in the movie. It should be fast, with strong armour, and long range. AT-ST - This would be about the same speed as the AAT, with shorter range and less armour. Homing Spider Droid - Slower than the others, but as it is bigger have more health points and since it is the only thing from the movies that actually is designed specifically for anti-mech, it would be better at killing them than the others. Long range too. Gian Speeder - This should be Naboo's anti-mech. Remeber in the movie when they took out an AAT with one shot? They'd be really fast, with short range and low armour. So obviously these units are not balanced with each other. But they will be considered with the whole army in terms of balancing. Also, as someone else mentioned, some civs should not be able to access certain sub-classes. For example, Naboo have mechs (as mentioned above) but can't get an assault mech equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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