Reason why JK2 Community is dying..

[Spider AL]

the main thing that is "killing" JKO besides Raven's inability to properly finish/tweak the game is...

 

The game is perfectly acceptable as it is. 1.02 was superior to 1.04... POSSIBLY, but the fact remains that 1.04 is fairly bugless, easily playable and it's quite easy to dispatch other players with the whole range of weaponry.

 

The game has no depth because it is geared toward the same old DM, TDM, Dueling and has a very poor CTF model and that gets awfully boring after about 20 minutes even with the SW characters.

 

The game is the game. The game has more depth than Quake 3, but what more can you ask than that? Sounds to me like you wanted Star Wars Galaxies, not Jedi Outcast. Those of us who played JK1 in the olden days appreciate the subtle differences between Jedi Outcast and the rest of the FPS gaming crop. JO is superior for those who can appreciate its advantages. For those who can't, there are other games.

 

Add Raven's continual nerfing of the game which turns it into a one-stance/skill spam game (red stance) and this all adds up to a very boring and shallow experience.

 

In case you've forgotten, people... REAMS of people were whining and venting bile about how "Red stance is too powerf0l!!!111" back when 1.02 was the default. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. Show me a Jedi who can't change his stances, and I'll show you a grease stain on the floor.

 

when a game lacks depth and skill it loses players.

 

The game doesn't lack skill. At the beginning, there were a select few who could always triumph. Now, there are a select few who can always triumph. This is because they have innate skill, and have practiced to hone their skill. There is skill in spreading butter on toast. There is skill involved in the most mundane of actions. The question isn't whether the game contains some sort of magic elixir to allow people to develop skills, the question is who is willing to PRACTICE to develop skills. Most people who play Jedi Outcast play it because they want to bibble about waving their sabres and doing their own thing. They like the IDEA of JO.

 

I on the other hand, and others like me, like JO ITSELF. This means we become better at it than other people, who immediately accuse us of being "Ch33ting sp@mming hax0r aimb0t0rz!!!11" or something like that.

 

We like the game. They want to BE Jedi. That's why there are less people playing the game now than there were: Serious gamers have gone back to Quake 3 and UT because that's where the big contests are... And SW fanboy hobbyists have given up playing because they aren't willing to gain the skill to survive... yet they hate losing. That's why.

 

But the game is far from dead. People like me, who enjoy the game for what it is, still play.

 

What JKO needs in terms of its Mods is its version of Counter-Strike.

 

What did Counter-Strike ever do for Half-Life?

 

"Boosted sales, increased popularity" I hear you cry. WRONG. Counter-Strike improved the lot of two groups:

 

1. The Counter-Strike team, it made them famous and successful.

2. Sierra n' Valve. It sold more copies of Half-Life, making them money.

 

But is Half-Life ITSELF, its deathmatch, its game modes, more popular because of Counter-Strike? Not likely. Do people play Half-Life original deathmatch in big international tournaments? No. Do they play CS in big international tournaments? Yes.

 

Why? Because CS was so different. It was its OWN game. If a mod like that is released for Jedi Outcast, and becomes a big hit, what will that do for JO? Nothing. Sure, a lot of people will own the JO CD, and they may try it out even. But the mod, the "CS for JO" will be the real success. JO is what we play NOW. The CTF, the DM, the Duel. If a "CS for JO" is released, by definition, all that will survive of JO in it, is the engine.

 

Frankly I like JO. Doesn't sound to me as if you like JO. Sounds to me like you like the idea of JO, or more specifically, your idea of JO. And good luck to you, make your mod, realise your dream... but don't call it JO.

 

JO is what we play now. Is Pro-mod JO? Debatable. Would this "CS for JO" really be JO? No.

 

JO is alive and well... but if it dies, if it IS dying, there's NOTHING that can be done. More mods, more differences, more splits in the community... none of these things will save it. Actually, they'll damage it. Just sit back and enjoy JO while it lasts.

 

There are two defining characteristics that "successful" games possess in my view.

 

Games like UT, Quake 3 and HL TFC and CS fit these requirements BTW.

 

1. A large community. JO has a relatively small-to-medium community.

2. A thriving competitive scene. JO has no competitions going on to speak of anymore.

 

So JO isn't successful. Big deal! I like it anyway. Just because it's not the next Q3, doesn't mean it's dying. People still play JK1 for god's sake. JO will be around for ages, with more maps, more players, more SP missions and more mods... and more hare-brained schemes to "save" the game that's "obviously dying." Well who cares. I'm off to play it. That's my method of keeping it alive. Playing it.

[Hiteche5]

Well Spider Al you make very good points but...

 

We like the game. They want to BE Jedi. That's why there are less people playing the game now than there were: Serious gamers have gone back to Quake 3 and UT because that's where the big contests are... And SW fanboy hobbyists have given up playing because they aren't willing to gain the skill to survive... yet they hate losing. That's why.

 

Without those "SW fanboy hobbyists" the game would not have been made. If there is no interest in the license they would not bother to pay for it. I might have taken it the wrong way but that statement seems abrasive to me.

 

But the game is far from dead. People like me, who enjoy the game for what it is, still play.

 

But the main reason I care for the popularity of this game is for servers. You all argue that the game is not dead because YOU get to play. I cannot because the servers are shut down in my area. I live in Hawaii and many of those servers and West Coast servers are gone. Now go ahead and make a ignorant remark like "Make your own server". So I can play with bots?

 

So JO isn't successful. Big deal!

 

It is a big deal to those who cannot play now so be mindful that popularity affects some of us in this "community"

[TheWhiteRaider]

I found this in the dictionary about the word Skill

3.Ablity to comform to conditions DISPITE obsticles.

 

And you think you can complain about every thing in life and have something done about it? I didn't like terorist attacks on the twin towers, but it still happended didn't it?

[Miggs the Just]

If anybody's looking for a change of pace from ffa and duels I have an assult type map that might interest you.

 

http://www.geocities.com/okr69/JediKnightII/

 

It's still beta but it's at least a map that requires some teamwork which is what this game needs.

 

Dont forget the Saga gametype has been discovered. Is that still considered true JO?

[Spider AL]

Without those "SW fanboy hobbyists" the game would not have been made.

 

I'm sorry to have to inform you Hiteche, but that's utter nonsense. There's a difference between people who like the movies/EU and are enthusiastic about playing Jedi Outcast the GAME, and spotty herberts who want to pretend to be Jedi in that game.

 

I know as much SW trivia as the next man, I like the game... but I don't pretend to have supernatural powers, nor do I ever try to levitate my mouse with the power of the Force. The simple fact of the matter is that the game, as many including myself have stated before now, was hijacked by a bunch of loud and outspoken fanboys who had no idea what online gaming was all about. Jedi Outcast had a lot of potential in both the competitive and non-competitive gaming worlds, and those utter cauliflower-brains were largely responsible for JO's failiure to realise said potential.

 

And now as a matter of fact, a lot of them have gone, because they've realised that no matter how much they whine to Raven to tweak the game in their favour, they have no hope of achieving the levels of skill a gamesman can achieve. They're off sulking in some "no gunz no force no jump no moving no breathing" server somewhere.

 

You all argue that the game is not dead because YOU get to play. I cannot because the servers are shut down in my area. I live in Hawaii

 

That's unfortunate for you. What about the Zone?

 

Now go ahead and make a ignorant remark like "Make your own server".

 

And you accuse ME of being "abrasive?" Calm the hell down. Nobody likes a patronising person.

 

As for making a server, why don't you make an effort to find a large number of players from the same geographical location as yourself, who can work to re-establish some of your west-coast servers. It's doubtful you're the only Hawaiian looking for a game of JO. Or is that too much work?

 

It's all very well for people to pop up on forums complaining about how JO is dying, but none of them do anything constructive about their perceived problem. Oh, apart from making one of the ten-billion useless mods out there that make matters worse by polarising an already fragmented community.

 

I found this in the dictionary about the word Skill...

 

Good call TheWhiteRaider.

 

My Collins Dictionary adds something interesting to its basic definition of skill. ("special ability... acquired by training")

 

It says here that the word "skill" derives from an ancient Norse word "skil" which meant distinction. Something that sets one apart, a positive difference, in other words.

 

It all comes down to skill really. The fanboys wanted to BE Jedi. I suppose in their twisted minds that meant that the skill of a Jedi should be provided to them on a platter. But most of them hadn't even tried to play Single Player on Jedi Master skill. They were always going to be disappointed. That's why they whined to Raven... They wanted to possess that indefinable quality that others had worked for, without having to work for it. Yes, laziness. Yes, thievery. Yes, crappy behaviour.

 

Raven has to carry some of the can, for any negative effects of 1.03. But hey, they tried their best to fix it in 1.04, poor sods were only listening to the vocal majority.

 

But there are whiners in every game community. I think it's about time companies stopped listening to the vocal majority. Bugfixes YES, gameplay changes NO. They should wait over three months after initial release, then call in the statistically best players in the world as patch consultants. Instead of listening to billy-no-frags, that is.

 

Dont forget the Saga gametype has been discovered. Is that still considered true JO?

 

Anything that came with the game, activated or not, is true JO IMHO Miggs. N1 about the assault btw.

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by Spider AL

 

I'm sorry to have to inform you Hiteche, but that's utter nonsense. There's a difference between people who like the movies/EU and are enthusiastic about playing Jedi Outcast the GAME, and spotty herberts who want to pretend to be Jedi in that game.

 

I know as much SW trivia as the next man, I like the game... but I don't pretend to have supernatural powers, nor do I ever try to levitate my mouse with the power of the Force. The simple fact of the matter is that the game, as many including myself have stated before now, was hijacked by a bunch of loud and outspoken fanboys who had no idea what online gaming was all about. Jedi Outcast had a lot of potential in both the competitive and non-competitive gaming worlds, and those utter cauliflower-brains were largely responsible for JO's failiure to realise said potential.

 

And now as a matter of fact, a lot of them have gone, because they've realised that no matter how much they whine to Raven to tweak the game in their favour, they have no hope of achieving the levels of skill a gamesman can achieve. They're off sulking in some "no gunz no force no jump no moving no breathing" server somewhere.

 

I rarely agree with Spider Al but everything he stated in the quote above is true, and very well written as always

[Spider AL]

Blah! Don't agree with me Fatal, you'll make me look bad by association! Unless that was your plan... all along...

 

[Hiteche5]

As for making a server, why don't you make an effort to find a large number of players from the same geographical location as yourself, who can work to re-establish some of your west-coast servers. It's doubtful you're the only Hawaiian looking for a game of JO. Or is that too much work?

 

I have posted here a couple of times as well as on a local website for Hawain gamers. I have also rented a server running at the local LAN shop called PC Bang and after 2 weeks of no one being on except me they took it down. So I have done my legwork and put up money as well. Unfortunately most of the gamers are caught up in CS.

 

That's unfortunate for you. What about the Zone?

 

I have tried to use the Zone as well. Pings above 150 people tend to stay away from.

 

Nobody likes a patronising person.

 

I apologize...but I have heard that run your own server thing many times even though I have tried that option.

 

As for complaining about the fanboys and the patches...I think the mere fact that we have these shouting matches to begin with is the reason a majority of gamers dropped. We (I am including myself) have pointed fingers and shouted at each other enough. Jump on most servers (especially a FF, guns server) and there is more name calling than shooting. Puts off casual and avid gamers alike. Heck, even in the forums there is division.

[Spider AL]

Well I'm afraid you're unstuck then mate. Other than forking out for a great connection so that you can play on the zone, there's not much you can do but wait, and continue to search for other Hawaiians. I remember when I used to play JK1... I would sometimes go for three-four days without finding a quality game to play with someone. I kept trying because I enjoyed it, and as a result I built up a knowledge of where to go to play, whom to play and when to search for a game.

 

Effort will be rewarded. Coming on here and complaining does no good for anyone.

 

I think the mere fact that we have these shouting matches to begin with is the reason a majority of gamers dropped.

 

Nope. You say that most of your nearby gamers are playing CS. Have you ever played CS? It's the most insulting, bitter and unpleasant experience. People troll, laugh and cuss newbies, scream obscenities at each other over voice comms, cheat, accuse innocents of cheating and burn kittens in bonfires. Okay, maybe not that last one. Well they may do, I don't know.

 

But the point remains. CS is the most popular game in the world... and the community has the most adversarial atmosphere of almost any game.

 

Slanging matches and divisions don't frighten people away. The reason people are leaving: The whiners caused 1.03 to be created, which made a lot of serious gamers leave. 1.04 has caused a lot of whiners to leave. So a lot of people have left. And more people have left, because they can't find a game because a lot of people left! QED. But give it sayyy... three months, there'll be more going on. This sort of thing is not unheard of.

 

So have patience. Or there are other games to be getting on with.

[Hiteche5]

Effort will be rewarded. Coming on here and complaining does no good for anyone.

 

I did not post to whine but to offer a different point of view as to why some people(and myself) are concerned about the popularity of the game. I just would like to see more people in my area to play with. My connection is Cable but geography still hurts me. I am getting decent with a 200 ping but I would love to see what I could do with 30-50 pings.

[obi]

*walks in thread*

 

 

 

Game not dead, game will not be dead.

 

 

 

 

*walks out of thread*

[Spider AL]

My connection is Cable but geography still hurts me.

 

That is extremely unfortunate for you. But surely other Hawaiians would give you a better ping? Keep trying.

 

Game not dead, game will not be dead.

 

I believe I said that, guh... Visitors.

[obi]

Originally posted by Spider AL

 

 

 

 

 

I believe I said that, guh... Visitors.

 

 

visitors?

 

 

I was posting polls when your grandfather was in diapers!

 

 

 

Also, I was just supporting you.

 

People need to stop saying that JKII is dead. Makes me so mad.

[Spider AL]

I was posting polls when your grandfather was in diapers!

 

Contrary to what people may think, that is actually possible. You see, I'm from... The FUTURE. My Grandfather was only born last year.

 

And since I'm from the future, I know that JO didn't die until a few years from now, upon the release of another sequel. Hooray, go back to your daily lives, there's nothing more to see here, please disperse.

 

People need to stop saying that JKII is dead. Makes me so mad.

 

Yes. Me too. When one is from the future, one becomes regularly exasperated at the temporal ignorance of past-people.

[obi]

okeydokey

 

 

 

[Kurgan]

Spider, lol, that was a very entertaining stream of posts, especially the last one. You make a lot of good points and I'm just going to say I agree almost 100% on your statements (rather than spend time making a "Force Long Post" of my own, heh).

 

 

Keep playin' and havin' fun and the game will never die!

 

 

 

PS: I'd amend your statement about CS being the most popular game in the world, by saying its the most popular pc FPS game in the world. Take a look at the "Sims" community or the people on Battle.Net or those MMORPG's and see what I mean. ; )

[Spider AL]

Spider, lol, that was a very entertaining stream of posts, especially the last one.

 

We at Spider AL™ aim to please.

 

by saying its the most popular pc FPS game in the world.

 

An accurate distinction, and I have no doubt that there are more popular real-life games as well, like I dunno, table-tennis or 9-ball pool or something. An unfortunate habit of the dedicated FPSer, I fear, to recognise no games outside his own field of interest.