ArtifeX Posted November 27, 2002 Author Share Posted November 27, 2002 Originally posted by adillon i've been following this thread for a while now, haven't posted, but am VERY excited about what you're doing here ArtifeX. i just saw the post on jediknightii.net, i had to come over and ask a couple questions ... there is going to be a jetpack supported with the mod ... i think i read that toonces was going to be making the model for it ... are there pics where we may see the jetpack? i scrolled through this thread many times, and cannot seem to find it. is this something that is going to be kept secret until promod's release? ------------------------- whatever the status of the jetpack, the accomplishments you have made with this project of yours absolutely astound me. i thank you for all of your time and effort in creating something for the JK2 community. and i for one am eagerly awaiting it release. thanks again, ArtifeX. yes, there is a jetpack that is currently in Promod 3.0 and is working perfectly. It's a dual-exhaust Tribes 2 style jetpack complete with a fuel gauge. You'll need to buy level 4 gadgets skill to use it, however. There's even a section in the "movement" controls menu for binding a key to it. thanks for the sentiments. I'm always glad to hear from someone who's enjoying my work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted November 27, 2002 Author Share Posted November 27, 2002 Originally posted by Guardian Omega True the jetpack is outclassed by a jedi with speed and jump. (If you seen me bunny hop, you know it does outclass it.) Maybe the first boost could be worth a regular jump of some sort. Today's CTF match was awesome. When it comes to pure jedi and gunners, it's pretty balanced. I don't know about the mixed though, although my current build works a bit. Last night was a big learning experience for me. I had no idea that the Rage/Speed/bunnyhopping could be carried to such an extreme. ogc(narbes) was making complete flag runs in under 12 seconds on CTF_bespin. There are counters to his technique, but I think that when you take lag into account, that a player with a 100ms ping is going to have a serious problem trying to take out a player moving at 40-50 meters/second. I think I've got a viable change to make that will add another counter to this style of play. I'm going to allow anyone with level 4 Gadgets to automatically spawn with a Force Field Generator. I think that will provide a very non-offensive alternative to laying mines all over the place (which sometimes don't work well because of the delay between being tripped and when they actually explode). I'm considering altering the speed/rage combo also. Just using speed/bunnyhopping will allow you to achieve speeds that some cars would have trouble reaching. Speed/rage/bunnyhopping allow ludicrous speeds and give you near invulnerability at the same time. This seems like a major exploit oversight in the code. ogc(narbes)'s main tactic was to make a flag run with rage/speed/bunnyhopping, then commit suicide buy jumping in a pit (bypassing promod's 10 second suicide delay), then immediately make another run. This is an exploitative workaround to the cooldown period that Dark Rage was intended to have. Maybe what's really necessary is respawn delay similar to Global Ops. Currently in CTF there is no penalty whatsoever for getting killed. Losing one point of your personal frag count is totally immaterial in the outcome of the game. Hmm...What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradivh Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 Some very good points. I didn't play a gunner at all last night, but it seemed to me they couldn't perform as well in big games as they could in smaller ones. When there's 8-10 enemy Jedi all over the map hungry for blood, the gunner usually doesn't get a chance to provision himself with the right weapons/equipment before he's cut down. In games with fewer people this isn't a problem, but on crowded servers gunners may feel like helpless sheep most of the time. I think gunners may need some sort of initial defense mechanism to survive in these situations. Spawning with a forcefield will help, but seeing as one good medium swing takes them down I doubt it'll be enough. I've got a few other ideas, but I'm still hammering out the details. I'll post them once I think the problem through a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonces Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 I'm glad ogc was there last night because I'm not sure if anybody else even thought to impliment that technique. I was able to counter it quite effectively at times by timing my force pulls to when he was jumping (he flew back quite far every time I did that) and either gripping him while my teammates took him out, or tossing him over a cliff as soon as I could pull him close. I'm not your average JKII player with a 100-200 ping though, I averaged a ping in the low 40's last night so I'm not sure how viable this counter would be with higher ping times. I really thought the balance between Force users and Gunners is just about perfect. Perhaps 1 on 1 the Jedi still have a slight edge, but in any outnumbered situation (two gunners vs one Jedi, or the other way around) it seems that as long as you had numbers you could dispatch your foe regardless of their config. Definatly encourageing actual "team play" rather than playing "One man army" Some additional defence system would definatly be a good idea Moradivh. I didn't play Gunner much either yesterday (I'm a lousy gunner anyway) but Gunners are pretty much helpless until they find a decent weapon. After that though, WATCH OUT I'm going to try my hardest to be at the test tonight as well, it was really alot of fun last night, and very productive It's looking great Art edit: I scrolled up a little bit and saw adills question about the Jetpack, anyway, this is the model. I haven't done much more than lay down the base colors, but it's ready to go when Art is able to implement it. It's also being used in Aotc:TC, but I may make some additional alterations to it for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradivh Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 A simple solution might be to give the gunner 200 shields and a full provision of gadgets when he spawns -- one sentry, one remote, one forcefield, etc. He'd still have to find his guns and any replacement gadgets on the field, but he'd be a dangerous and useful team player right from the start. Of course, this makes suicide exploitation alot worse, so the self-kill mechanic would have to be tweaked somewhat. Idunno... maybe a 15-20 second wait period before you respawn, every time you intentionally jump off a cliff or blow yourself up? Would that suck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathain Valtiel Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 Ah, but what if you're say pushed, and your feet touch something before you die and thus it says ytou fell to your death, AKA suicided when you really didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradivh Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 Hey Toonces, what exactly is involved in making models and textures in JK2? I'm a student modeler/animator for 3d Studio Max and I've never done stuff for actual games before (though I hope to be a game artist eventually), so I'm very curious. Eheh, perhaps this is not the time and place to ask such things. A little off-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradivh Posted November 27, 2002 Share Posted November 27, 2002 Ah, but what if you're say pushed, and your feet touch something before you die and thus it says ytou fell to your death, AKA suicided when you really didn't?This happens in FFA all the time, and you wind up losing a point. So I guess you'd be really screwed over, and have to wait 15-20 seconds. It'd be irritating, I know. Hmm... maybe if you could program the game so that a self-kill only happens if you haven't been pushed/pulled in the last 3-5 seconds. So if, say, your sense of balance is wrecked by an enemy push and you run off a cliff, it'll still register that he killed you. Or maybe there'd be some exploitable side-effect to this. Idunno... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa Tahu Posted November 28, 2002 Share Posted November 28, 2002 Originally posted by ArtifeX Maybe what's really necessary is respawn delay similar to Global Ops. Currently in CTF there is no penalty whatsoever for getting killed. Losing one point of your personal frag count is totally immaterial in the outcome of the game. Hmm...What do you guys think? I have an idea! If you can,Artifex,you can do this: Make a frag count of your character(23 or as many as you want points per frag),flag count,(points you score after scoring),and total points.When you lose one frag,you lose a total of 23 points.Looks more significant,isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksk h2o Posted November 28, 2002 Share Posted November 28, 2002 I'm not sure loosing personal points really matters to team players in CTF. I mean I could be at -(many many points) but if I'm a deadly flag defender and nobody can get near or away with the flag, at the end of the day I'll have done what was needed to get my team to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady In Red Posted November 28, 2002 Share Posted November 28, 2002 I thought this was going to be realeased on wednesday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted November 29, 2002 Author Share Posted November 29, 2002 Originally posted by Qu'in'dib I thought this was going to be realeased on wednesday? Nope, the closed testing matches were set for Wed. I'm still looking at a release sometime tomorrow for the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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