State of ProMod beta 3

[ArtifeX]

Avatar:

 

I'm actually working on something quite similar to what you're talking about. It will once and for all balance gunners and saberists so that battles between the two will become enjoyable for both sides.

 

I've sent you an ICQ recently. You can grab my ICQ from that message, or contact me at arsartifex@msn.com

[CoreyGH]

Here's to hoping that some sort of saber throw balance will be included in the next version of Promod.

 

I know you've posted before about adding the ability to force push sabers out of the air and that's an interesting idea. However, I don't think we need to look any farther than the Single Player version for a solution to saber throw spamming: Blocking a thrown saber should knock the saber to the ground. This leaves the person who threw it very open and coupled with the added damage to persons not wielding a saber I think it balances saber throw nicely.

 

But mainly my point is that I hope some form of saber throw balancing gets added to the next promod update.

 

-Soylent Green

[The Truthful Liar]

Wow, this ProMod is actually alot better than it's predecessor "Jedi Mod"

 

Great work, keep the ideas running

[ArtifeX]

CoreyGH:

yes, there's going to be several changes to the gameplay in beta 3 that will make people think very carefully before using saber throw.

 

AB_Legion:

glad you like it!

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

Originally posted by ArtifeX

One thing I'll be doing for sure is giving the double saber style a heavy penalty to resisting a Defense Breaker, and low damage. My reasoning: you're using the sabers one-handed. Imagine trying to hit a baseball while holding the bat with only one hand.

 

Think about the fact that crossing twin blades (ie gives you an X) gives you a very powerful defence, twin-style is weak against powerful attacks if there is no warning, but if a Defense Breaker is a massive release of energy any sword fighter would read the body language a mile off giving them ample time to defend.

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

 

Think about the fact that crossing twin blades (ie gives you an X) gives you a very powerful defence, twin-style is weak against powerful attacks if there is no warning, but if a Defense Breaker is a massive release of energy any sword fighter would read the body language a mile off giving them ample time to defend.

 

An x is weak against a two hand strike. If you are holding a saber in each hand then you entire blocking strength is in your wrists. A two hands on the hilt strike however has your arms strength and weight in it (if its a heavy stike).

 

Wrists against upper bosy strength and weight? you be the judge.

 

An x should be better at blocking weapons fire, but should leave you vulnerable to being overpowered

 

This is all just my opinion by the way, I am open to argument on this.

[Doctor Shaft]

First off, I am excited to hear that something like dual sabers, or even a 'lightstaff' get added into the game. I'm guessing he's only planning on dual sabers, and not Maul's weapon as well.

 

Regardless, I want these things just to add variety, and also because it will give me more joy when I use my NORMAL LIGHTSABER TO KILL THE FRESH DESIGNS OFF.

 

In terms of dual sabers, I also agree that it should not have an uber blocking ability. Blocking with two sabers is not more beneficial in the strength department. Creating an X is not going to create a really strong block. You can do some clever things with an X, but unless it is both of your arms in an X, I'm afraid most of the force will be going against your wrists. I could be wrong though.

 

Either way, I feel that the other two lightsaber designs should focus on completely different styles of fighting. There is an exceptional JK1 mod called Saber Battle X that took the old and decrepit JK1 engine and breathed new life into it. Of course, the game is still old and decrepit, hit detection sucks on that engine, etc. etc. But it did have a lightstaff and a lightsaber. No dual sabers though. Regardless, it was unfortunate that the lightstaff, with all of its smooth new animations (yeah, it is much easier to get animations going with JK1 now than it is to even think about JK2), it played more like a more powerful version of the lightsaber.

 

Firstly, I don't think dual sabers should be weak. Why? Well, here's the answer. why use something that gives me twice the offense, but does damage that would probably only do as much or a little more damage than blue stance (SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE, INCREASE POWER OF THE BLUE STANCE NEXT VERSION). Blue stance will do just fine, thank you. I would like it if it did as much damage as yellow stance. The clincher would be this. You can be on the offense a lot because with both sabers you've got twice as many swings out there at the same time, and if i'm not mistaken, Artifex is using one of those one armed stances from Tavion or whatever to do the job, so it'll still be pretty fast. Also, with the threat of doing the same damage as yellow, only twice as fast, people will have an incentive not to simply start swinging and clashing with someone that has two sabers. But as the trade off for having this great offensive advantage, there should be a significant defense penalty. Not because the guy doesn't know how to block well, but because they should be able to be overpowered.

 

What I don't want is a dual saber stance that does blue stance damage, only now it swings even faster (oh how useless, and if someone says it's not useless, then fine, how boring and unimaginative). This would be akin to just adding some cosmetics in the game rather than add a different and threatening style of play. It will also bring a ridiculous look to the game. Now you'll have one guy with two sabers mashing the buttons ferociously, and the other player, with lightsaber, knows that his yellow stance does more damage, so now we'll just see one guy with one saber swinging madly, killing the other guy with two sabers swinging madly. It'll just look silly. This dual saber thing should have the ability to out do other stances in the offensive advantage department. Not in terms of guard breaking, that's red stance, but in terms of who can put painful swings out. Another blue stance style would just mean another counter attack style, and we don't need that.

 

I'm guessing no lightstaff will be brought in because there's no way of implementing that without it looking silly or chaotic.

 

It would be great if that stance brought on a feel similar to Episode 2. Anakin has the offensive advantage, and Dooku is forced to defend himself, but at just the right moment, and one well placed swing, he eliminates Anakins offensive power, nearly finishing the battle altogether.

[Haemon]

A few things about Promod real quick

 

1. While using lightning you should be completely open to attacks except for maybe guns. This would help cut down on people running around with their fingers on the lightning button.

 

2. DFA is fine just the way it is as long as it remains unblockable.

 

3. Is the dualsaber going to be easier kill somebody with because on the servers with dual blade enabled all you have to do is lunge of run around with speed in blue. If anything the dual blade should be harder to use but very deadly in the hands of an experienced player.

 

Thats it. Promod rules.

Kick is beautiful(in promod).

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

3. Agreed, read Salvatore books.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

Can we just use: Lightsaber, Lightstaff and Dual-Sabers

 

Its getting hard to keep track of what people are talking about.

 

Watch Episode 1, when fighting 1vs1 Maul used only one blade, he needed the enhanced agility of a sword. Later when fighting two Jedi he switched to the staff, the lightstaff was a defensive weapon not an offensive one, sure potentially you can attack faster, but your choice of moves is limited.

 

Lightstaff should be the ultimate defensive weapon, however lethal attacks if the enemy's defense is downright poor

 

Lightsaber stances should be medium defense and attack with minor variations based on personal taste rather than a rock-paper-scissors system (ie to give fighters some character)

 

Dual-Sabers should have the fastest and most vicious offense at a defensive penalty, but still be able to defend against power attacks if your circumstances are right

 

I feel this gives each weapon their advantage but they can "borrow" the offensive/defensive advantages of the other weapons if the situation is right.

[thehomicidalegg]

i agree with DeTRiTiC-iQ, using the light staff and dual sabres would gain attack/defence (lightstaff : defence ; dualsabres : offence) bonuses outside the conceivable range by using just 1 sabre. However, it should have severe penalties in defence/offence( the opposite ).

 

Also, perhaps a well timed accurate shot (large difference in csc values) will result in a dualsaberist loosing one of his/her sabres( think anakin ep2).

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

 

Think about the fact that crossing twin blades (ie gives you an X) gives you a very powerful defence, twin-style is weak against powerful attacks if there is no warning, but if a Defense Breaker is a massive release of energy any sword fighter would read the body language a mile off giving them ample time to defend.

 

I agree that two sabers can increase the likelyhood of blocking an attack, but that same block, crossed sabers or not, will still be weakened due to the fact that you're holding each saber with only one hand. It's all in the leverage.

 

Take the baseball and bat metaphor again: If you wanted to bunt the ball, which would be more effective, holding the bat in front of the ball with two widely-spaced hands, or with each hand holding a different bat and crossing them in front of the ball?

 

Also, there's unfortunately no "X" defense animation in the game. Since the animation tools were never released, all of us mod makers have to use only what's already in the game.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Doctor Shaft

First off, I am excited to hear that something like dual sabers, or even a 'lightstaff' get added into the game. I'm guessing he's only planning on dual sabers, and not Maul's weapon as well.

 

Regardless, I want these things just to add variety, and also because it will give me more joy when I use my NORMAL LIGHTSABER TO KILL THE FRESH DESIGNS OFF.

 

Yes, when twin blades are implemented, that style will not be uber. It will be another fighting technique with its own strengths and weaknesses. *cough*style trump system*cough*

 

I'll probably implement Maul's saber as well, since it's in the code already anyway, but I really hate the super-hacked nature of it. Sticking yourself through the chest with the blade during a swing looks pretty silly.

 

...

 

Firstly, I don't think dual sabers should be weak. Why? Well, here's the answer. why use something that gives me twice the offense, but does damage that would probably only do as much or a little more damage than blue stance (SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE, INCREASE POWER OF THE BLUE STANCE NEXT VERSION). Blue stance will do just fine, thank you. I would like it if it did as much damage as yellow stance. The clincher would be this. You can be on the offense a lot because with both sabers you've got twice as many swings out there at the same time, and if i'm not mistaken, Artifex is using one of those one armed stances from Tavion or whatever to do the job, so it'll still be pretty fast. Also, with the threat of doing the same damage as yellow, only twice as fast, people will have an incentive not to simply start swinging and clashing with someone that has two sabers. But as the trade off for having this great offensive advantage, there should be a significant defense penalty. Not because the guy doesn't know how to block well, but because they should be able to be overpowered.

 

I'll probably slow down tavion's style a bit. It's ludicrously fast right now.

 

Twin sabers won't really need an offense bonus--it'll have the innate bonus of hitting twice as many times. It'll have a penalty to having its defense broken. Haven't decided on how much damage it'll do yet.

 

What I don't want is a dual saber stance that does blue stance damage, only now it swings even faster (oh how useless, and if someone says it's not useless, then fine, how boring and unimaginative). This would be akin to just adding some cosmetics in the game rather than add a different and threatening style of play. It will also bring a ridiculous look to the game. Now you'll have one guy with two sabers mashing the buttons ferociously, and the other player, with lightsaber, knows that his yellow stance does more damage, so now we'll just see one guy with one saber swinging madly, killing the other guy with two sabers swinging madly. It'll just look silly. This dual saber thing should have the ability to out do other stances in the offensive advantage department. Not in terms of guard breaking, that's red stance, but in terms of who can put painful swings out. Another blue stance style would just mean another counter attack style, and we don't need that.

 

I'm looking at some different angles on making twin sabers a really unique feeling style.

 

I'm guessing no lightstaff will be brought in because there's no way of implementing that without it looking silly or chaotic.

 

No plans for a lightstaff.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Haemon

A few things about Promod real quick

 

1. While using lightning you should be completely open to attacks except for maybe guns. This would help cut down on people running around with their fingers on the lightning button.

 

2. DFA is fine just the way it is as long as it remains unblockable.

 

3. Is the dualsaber going to be easier kill somebody with because on the servers with dual blade enabled all you have to do is lunge of run around with speed in blue. If anything the dual blade should be harder to use but very deadly in the hands of an experienced player.

 

Thats it. Promod rules.

Kick is beautiful(in promod).

 

1. That's on my list.

 

2. Ah, the DFA debate continues...

 

3. I'm going to try very hard to make twin sabers not suck. Same goes for Maul's double saber.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

Can we just use: Lightsaber, Lightstaff and Dual-Sabers

 

Its getting hard to keep track of what people are talking about.

 

Watch Episode 1, when fighting 1vs1 Maul used only one blade, he needed the enhanced agility of a sword. Later when fighting two Jedi he switched to the staff, the lightstaff was a defensive weapon not an offensive one, sure potentially you can attack faster, but your choice of moves is limited.

 

Lightstaff should be the ultimate defensive weapon, however lethal attacks if the enemy's defense is downright poor

 

Lightsaber stances should be medium defense and attack with minor variations based on personal taste rather than a rock-paper-scissors system (ie to give fighters some character)

 

Dual-Sabers should have the fastest and most vicious offense at a defensive penalty, but still be able to defend against power attacks if your circumstances are right

 

I feel this gives each weapon their advantage but they can "borrow" the offensive/defensive advantages of the other weapons if the situation is right.

 

Now you're getting it. The "Lightstaff", or double-bladed saber as I call it, will be very defensive, have extremely poor penetrative capabilities. It's going to be ideally suited to defending yourself in a crowd. A la episode 1.

 

Twin sabers will be made for very agressive offense, but will be very susceptible to being broken by more stable, stronger attacks. The idea will be that if your opponent is rushing you with twin sabers, then you're going to have to back off and play cat and mouse until you get the opening to break their defenses.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by thehomicidalegg

Also, perhaps a well timed accurate shot (large difference in csc values) will result in a dualsaberist loosing one of his/her sabres( think anakin ep2).

 

hmmm....(taps fingers thoughtfully)

[Doctor Shaft]

the double-bladed saber should be defensive, but I think in order to emulate it even more closely, it should be defensive when moving in the correct directions. Rather than make it a cool looking saber that is essentially blue stance, why not this.

 

Rather than make it premierly defensive, make it a defensive, but agile, style. So you have your quick strikes that are difficult to penetrate with, and in turn you have a defense that is difficult to pentrate... but only when you are moving back. If you decide to stand still, etc., you have a constant penalty, or when you're moving foward. Sideways and backswards, you get a good defensive bonus. Maul fought two jedi, but you'll also note that he was not advancing on them at all. He was also rarely holding his ground, usually holding ground when he knew he could block and then quickly counter attack.

 

It would be good to see a style which relied on giving ground to defend, and then at the right moments strike with moves that hardly penetrate, do decent damage, and occasionally using kick to keep the guy away.

 

I like the csc thing too.

 

The big question though is how would you ever assign all of these lightsaber styles in the force power menu. Also, let's not forget the guns.

 

With all of these new styles in, other players may be concerend that promod has become an exclusive sabers only game. I, for one, do not want this. In fact, if you asked me, the guns should be ramped up in damage.

 

I am ever curious as to how you plan to balance guns vs sabers 'once and for all'. Personally, what I don't like is that there are various guns that you could call 'low tier', and other guns that are 'high tier'.

 

'Low tier' would be the bryar, the st rifle, bowcaster. Currently, promod's sniper rifle requires a bit more force allocation and aiming to block, so i guess it's kinda in its own little world. However, it bothers me to know end that I can charge a stormtrooper rifle carrying person and two things happen.

 

1.) I swing at him, knowing that he has to blast me at least 8-10 times to kill me, and my one swing ends the fight. I don't even have to try to dodge the shots while dashing at him with force speed, unlike the rocket launcher or the repeater.

 

2.) I do block the shots, and some of them happen to bounce back at him. However, I also must hit him with his own shots 8-10 times, so he's basically free to fire away at me unless he's at point blank range, in which case I either try my luck using this method or go back to method 1.

 

 

Granted, these weapons should feel as if they are to be overwhelmed by a lightsaber. But on the same token, I think all the guns should really hurt. This way, if the saber is used skillfully, you can win, but if the gunner is clever, ala Jango Fett, the blaster can prove a deadly weapon to a jedi as well. Also, when gunners square off, rather than have a five minute slug fest, they would be faced with a match in which the one with the most precise aim and quicker reflexes wins, instead of the guy who knows how to use force jump the most efficiently.

 

Also. when we assign points to saber offense defense, what may really turn players off is if they go onto 'promod', and find that everyone is now toting a lightsaber, a dual-blade saber, and dual sabers all at once. that's five styles. Why should they ever use a gun, they're having so much fun running around with their twenty lightsaber custom looks.

 

Hopefully, you'll set things so that force points that are assigned to certain styles will prohibit the possibility for other styles.

 

Here's an example of a possible bad combination . A theoretically defensive double-bladed saber, that gets great defense and quick pokes, combined with a normal red stance lightsaber style. This guy now has the theoretically best defense and the ability to just randomly switch to the best offense. After swinging, he just switches back to best defense.

 

I don't know, I'm not saying that this will actually be a problem (I guarentee all of you that your fancy sabers will not daunt my use of the lightsaber. I've played against these othersabers in the past, and I'll do it again).

 

Hopefully 'momentum' or redirecting will be a factor in the lightsaber combat as well. And I would love to know what that new neutral force power is going to be. Please don't say something like 'safe fall' (useless) or like force dodge (don't need it).

[MrCrusher]

Been hosting a server and I gets lots of new players asking questions and commenting on what they like and don't like.

 

Well, what they don't like is losing saber duels constantly. So, when saber dueling the only way to keep them interested and happy is to turn my back on them and stand completely still so they can stab me in the back. Or, you can run blindly around in circles hitting the attack button when they're safely out of range and hope they'll quickly dispatch you. **warning don't try this at home as you may pickup bad habits** The new player then starts commenting on how much they like the mod.

 

This reflects the only inherent problem with the mod, if you suck or haven't learned the skills you will never or rarely win - as the mod stresses skill over all else.

 

The current duel game type pits the best against the weakest, which is a HUGE game flaw.

 

Suggestion: when FFA multiple challenge duels are enabled then go one step further. Add a cvar that allows a FFA-Duel server to keep all sabers sheathed and force powers disabled until a challenge is initiated. (something similar to the JK2sp pre bar fight)

 

This would also make most maps in the game far more useful for dueling. And allow players to "choose" who they duel with and when. This is very, very important when a game has a solid skill requirement.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Doctor Shaft

the double-bladed saber should be defensive, but I think in order to emulate it even more closely, it should be defensive when moving in the correct directions. Rather than make it a cool looking saber that is essentially blue stance, why not this.

 

...

 

It would be good to see a style which relied on giving ground to defend, and then at the right moments strike with moves that hardly penetrate, do decent damage, and occasionally using kick to keep the guy away.

 

This is what I'm hoping it will be like when I get it finished.

 

I like the csc thing too.

 

The big question though is how would you ever assign all of these lightsaber styles in the force power menu. Also, let's not forget the guns.

[/b]

 

(evil grin)

 

With all of these new styles in, other players may be concerend that promod has become an exclusive sabers only game. I, for one, do not want this. In fact, if you asked me, the guns should be ramped up in damage.

 

I am ever curious as to how you plan to balance guns vs sabers 'once and for all'. Personally, what I don't like is that there are various guns that you could call 'low tier', and other guns that are 'high tier'...

[/b]

 

I'm taking care of all of this in one fell swoop.

 

Also. when we assign points to saber offense defense, what may really turn players off is if they go onto 'promod', and find that everyone is now toting a lightsaber, a dual-blade saber, and dual sabers all at once. that's five styles. Why should they ever use a gun, they're having so much fun running around with their twenty lightsaber custom looks.

 

Hopefully, you'll set things so that force points that are assigned to certain styles will prohibit the possibility for other styles.

 

Here's an example of a possible bad combination . A theoretically defensive double-bladed saber, that gets great defense and quick pokes, combined with a normal red stance lightsaber style. This guy now has the theoretically best defense and the ability to just randomly switch to the best offense. After swinging, he just switches back to best defense.

 

I don't know, I'm not saying that this will actually be a problem (I guarentee all of you that your fancy sabers will not daunt my use of the lightsaber. I've played against these othersabers in the past, and I'll do it again).

[/b]

 

The "other" saber styles will be balanced with the normal styles (as close to it as I can get without massive open testing, anyway). There'll no doubt be room for tweaking when it's finished, though.

 

Hopefully 'momentum' or redirecting will be a factor in the lightsaber combat as well. And I would love to know what that new neutral force power is going to be. Please don't say something like 'safe fall' (useless) or like force dodge (don't need it). [/b]

 

I'm planning to mess around with momentum and see how much it messes with the feel of the game. As for the new force power...just have to wait and see. It will be exclusive to ProMod.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by MrCrusher

Been hosting a server and I gets lots of new players asking questions and commenting on what they like and don't like.

 

Well, what they don't like is losing saber duels constantly. So, when saber dueling the only way to keep them interested and happy is to turn my back on them and stand completely still so they can stab me in the back. Or, you can run blindly around in circles hitting the attack button when they're safely out of range and hope they'll quickly dispatch you. **warning don't try this at home as you may pickup bad habits** The new player then starts commenting on how much they like the mod.

 

This reflects the only inherent problem with the mod, if you suck or haven't learned the skills you will never or rarely win - as the mod stresses skill over all else.

 

The current duel game type pits the best against the weakest, which is a HUGE game flaw.

 

Suggestion: when FFA multiple challenge duels are enabled then go one step further. Add a cvar that allows a FFA-Duel server to keep all sabers sheathed and force powers disabled until a challenge is initiated. (something similar to the JK2sp pre bar fight)

 

This would also make most maps in the game far more useful for dueling. And allow players to "choose" who they duel with and when. This is very, very important when a game has a solid skill requirement.

 

I've been thinking a lot about the learning curve for new players. ProMod has a lot of strategies and techniques to digest on top of the standard version's. At some point, I'm going to be implementing an in-game help feature that will briefly explain some aspects of the mod. Maybe some generous map maker will offer to do a training level similar to other fps's. (hint, hint) I'd do it myself, but I'm swamped with trying to get Beta 3 ready.

 

Enhancing the duel modes is something else on my very long list of things I'd like to do. Modifying private duels in multiplayer is probably the way I'll go, since players will only need to look at the scoreboard to see who would be a good challenge for them.

[taboo]

Suggestion: when FFA multiple challenge duels are enabled then go one step further. Add a cvar that allows a FFA-Duel server to keep all sabers sheathed and force powers disabled until a challenge is initiated. (something similar to the JK2sp pre bar fight)

 

Fantastic idea! Coupling this with some user made multiple arena maps (similar in function to Heretic 2's blading arena maps) would make for some very fun & interesting dueling.

[MrCrusher]

Hmm.. a training map. I've been looking for an excuse to start mapping again. Wonder how one could implement a training setup... may require a bit of coding.

 

JK1 had a simple hit feedback setup in Morgan's shop where Kyle first found his lightsaber. Depending on where you hit - that quadrant would light up.

 

Heretic 2 had an excellent training level, especially the hanging chicken at the end that registered damage feedback. When the chicken was hit there would be a print message that told you how much damage you did. Also hitting the upside-down dangling chicken would knock it away and if you didn't move quickly the chicken would swinging back into you doing damage or knocking you flat.

 

One way to train players might be using bots and slow motion duels. Slow motion Sword training and choreography in real life are usually done at half speed. I've done mapping with UnrealEd, if I remember correctly there was an excellent zoning setup allowing all sorts of matrix like enviorments, slow motion, low gravity etc. I'm not aware of any thing in QRadiant as feature filled.

 

If there were some way to register print messages as well during duels, that would reveal (according to the ghoul system) damage and location of attack damage. Could even print message feedback similar to RPG hit die rolls that registered blocks, parries, defense breaks etc.and the CSC challenge values between two opponents. RPGers would flock to this even for non training game play. This would seem easier to do than model damage decals, or damage skins.

 

A target dummy or model, or even world geometry made to look like a target dummy might work....

 

Training map... if I can be of help then let me know. FFA_Cloudshark is my first and only map with JKRadiant. This map was designed for multiple Duels with minimum geometry, great r_speed thus FPS.

[MrCrusher]

Enhancing the duel modes is something else on my very long list of things I'd like to do. Modifying private duels in multiplayer is probably the way I'll go, since players will only need to look at the scoreboard to see who would be a good challenge for them.

 

Maybe even an enhanced score board that catigorizes the title occording to skill i.e. Many-wins/few-losses would hold a Jedi Master title on score board etc.

 

...or even add titles to the players-name per server. That way you could target an opponent and know who to run from or who to attack....

[taboo]

Heretic 2 had an excellent training level, especially the hanging chicken at the end that registered damage feedback. When the chicken was hit there would be a print message that told you how much damage you did. Also hitting the upside-down dangling chicken would knock it away and if you didn't move quickly the chicken would swinging back into you doing damage or knocking you flat.

 

Yep, that was an excellent training level and it even made for a decent mp level too. Somehow, whacking the chicken was never satisfactory for me, I always wanted to choke it.

 

Message feedback during duels would be very helpful. You could have varying levels of feedback depending on how much info the player wants. Great idea.

[CoreyGH]

For a simple feedback system without installing anything, start up a team based server (team ffa) and turn ON team damage and friendly saber. Then fight someone on your team. You can see how much damage you did to them in the upper righthand corner. Haven't tried this but I guess it should work.

 

-Soylent Green