CoreyGH Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 I don't have a comment on the DFA 'cause I think Art's idea was the best one posted. However, I don't think the backspin should be spinnable for the same reason the blue lunge shouldn't be aimable; the feet are planted in one place during the animation. I just doesn't look right for the backswiper to be spinning in place. However, something does need to be done to give the move more benefit. As is, there's almost no point in trying it. Someone also mentioned that knocking someone down is useless because the knocked down person can get up right away and also push people while on the ground. However, they forgot that you can toss your saber at someone you just knocked down and they can do nothing to block it. So it's not useless. My 2¢ -Soylent Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Warrior Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Ok i aint read all of this thread. Spinning DFA? No big deal easy to avoid. DFA leaves you too vulnerable? NOPE, not if you do it at the right time. Spinning backstabs? LMFAO this is a joke yeah? Speeding up yellow stance? Sounds good, spinning moves are far too vulnerable in beta 2. OK if this mod is for the 'Above average' (LOL) players why not make the strikes so you have to get an absolutely perfect hit to get full damage. IE set damage for a Red swing at between 1 and 90 hp. 1hp for a scratch, 90 if you get a real corker of a hit that sinks in right the way up to the hilt. Damage should be dependent on the quality of the hit not just whether or not it actually touches. A note to Artifex:- Watch out man, this is stared to sound like the mod is heading for dangerous waters man, sounds like all the lamers want you to add all the wack moves again, the ones that nobody that plays well wanted to start with!!! Also make sure you leave the server side damage scale enabled so that those that like to play for fun can tweak just a little!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Originally posted by Jah Warrior ...Damage should be dependent on the quality of the hit not just whether or not it actually touches. Actually, the damage ramping system started in 1.03 already does that. Damage is scaled based on how close to the "power" segment of the swing animation you are (usually half way through) when you connect. A note to Artifex:- Watch out man, this is stared to sound like the mod is heading for dangerous waters man, sounds like all the lamers want you to add all the wack moves again, the ones that nobody that plays well wanted to start with!!! Also make sure you leave the server side damage scale enabled so that those that like to play for fun can tweak just a little!!! I'm taking all suggestions seriously, but I'm using my own judgement in the final decision. I won't put any over/under powered moves back into the game. The server side damage scale variable will always be available. It's so broad and generalized in its effect that I think players aren't too confused by its use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Warrior Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Originally posted by ArtifeX Actually, the damage ramping system started in 1.03 already does that. Damage is scaled based on how close to the "power" segment of the swing animation you are (usually half way through) when you connect. I'm taking all suggestions seriously, but I'm using my own judgement in the final decision. I won't put any over/under powered moves back into the game. The server side damage scale variable will always be available. It's so broad and generalized in its effect that I think players aren't too confused by its use. sounds like you are on the right track then man. Less posting more coding dude!!! bloody impatient here mate!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyplaya73 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 I am losing hope in this community. The point is to make a Mod that is for the BEST players and I am given spamming concerns? Some of you still haven't realized the double fixes you are advocating. If you can block a DFA then you don't need it nerfed. If you can't be draged down then you don't need a nerfed BS. How can you not see that? YOU CAN'T SPAM WHAT CAN BE BLOCKED!!!! its a simple concept...or at least I thought it was. Fatal, I am a little late in this thread but I need to tell you that you are the f**king man. You are always right on the money with your views on JK2. I totally agree with everything you are saying. I just wish more people couldsee the light. They ruined JK2 for me when they nerfed it to make it noob freindly. I have stopped playing JK2 for a while in favor or SOF2 for now. If anyone thinks JK2 attacks are too strong they should try this game. Sometimes you get killed and you never even saw your attacker and had no idea where he was. SOF2 is not noob freidly at all and that's great. It took me a while to get good at it but its worth it. Every patch for SOF2 had made the game better with more weapons and more ways to kill. It is funny how the same company could be so wrong about one game and so right about another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCrusher Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Actually, the damage ramping system started in 1.03 already does that. Damage is scaled based on how close to the "power" segment of the swing animation you are (usually half way through) when you connect. Some more questions. Does this also mean that the power segment of the swing (ver 1.03, 1.04) directly correlates with the CSC aim at high value?.... been trying to explain this mod to others and some gripe that you shouldn't have to aim a saber to hit. I usually explain to them, on pure assumption, that the basic version of the game already has a sweet spot on the swing and that the CSC correlates to this. But I'm only assuming this to be the case. I also assume that the CSC has to achieve good aim at the moment of contact during a saber attack and not during the entire swing, thus you can initiate the attack facing any direction (...at the risk of poor defense value). I've been playing a bit now and its my opinion that the damage values are spot on. 1-1.5 clean hit with red stance, 2-3 clean hits with yellow-stance, and a few more for blue-stance. These are clean hits; with the excellent defense system an engagement lasts far longer than just a few saber swings. Defense is almost perfect. One thing that I'm not certain about is when two players swing almost simultaneously (and sabers do not come in contact with each other); player1 hits first then player2's swing continues thru to hit. Maybe the CSC values could do a check in this situation and if player1 has the appropriate value then a block or "jammed" attack occurs. Currently the player with the stronger attack but not the first attack wins the engagement. Its the evolution of broadsword to rapier issue, the broadsword has the power but during the broadsword wind-up the rapier was penetrating gaps in armor, piercing vital organs and cutting arteries. Basically adding a provision where you could "beat some one to the punch" with a quick successful attack. Something else to consider may be to add a knock-down from a perfect redstance hit that is just barely blocked. Has the backstab aiming arc been changed? They seem harder to execute. Adding a small arch of rotation to DFA and backstab would discourage script users from using the Blender-Backsweep but also allow a degree of aiming to occur. Currently Backsweeps/stabs aren't viable attacks. Anyway, great work so far. **************** Every patch for SOF2 had made the game better with more weapons and more ways to kill. It is funny how the same company could be so wrong about one game and so right about another It is Lucas Arts that has final cut on JK2 content. Raven is a subcontractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 Originally posted by MrCrusher It is Lucas Arts that has final cut on JK2 content. Raven is a subcontractor. Then Lucas Arts is a piece of Sh^t. Lucas arts blunders... Star Wars DVD's Jar Jar Binks Spy Kids 2 Hayden Christensen as an actor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ged Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Originally posted by FatalStrike Then Lucas Arts is a piece of Sh^t. Lucas arts blunders... Star Wars DVD's Jar Jar Binks Spy Kids 2 Hayden Christensen as an actor Lol .... Yeah remember when Lucasarts could do no wrong as far as games of the SW franchise were concerned ? .... And now we are at this sorry state .... Where even when they get someone else to make a great SW game, LArts can step in at well past the eleventh hour .... and still totally F%^K everything up .... You forgot to mention Midiclorians and Greedo firing first ;0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Originally posted by Jah Warrior sounds like you are on the right track then man. Less posting more coding dude!!! bloody impatient here mate!!! Not to worry, I'm going on a coding binge here soon to get the guns/saber balance system integrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Originally posted by MrCrusher Some more questions. Does this also mean that the power segment of the swing (ver 1.03, 1.04) directly correlates with the CSC aim at high value?.... been trying to explain this mod to others and some gripe that you shouldn't have to aim a saber to hit. I usually explain to them, on pure assumption, that the basic version of the game already has a sweet spot on the swing and that the CSC correlates to this. But I'm only assuming this to be the case. I also assume that the CSC has to achieve good aim at the moment of contact during a saber attack and not during the entire swing, thus you can initiate the attack facing any direction (...at the risk of poor defense value). This is exactly correct. I've tried to explain to people that the CSC is only reinforcing what they should have been doing all along. There should be nearly no learning curve if they were fighting well before. I've been playing a bit now and its my opinion that the damage values are spot on. 1-1.5 clean hit with red stance, 2-3 clean hits with yellow-stance, and a few more for blue-stance. These are clean hits; with the excellent defense system an engagement lasts far longer than just a few saber swings. Defense is almost perfect. One thing that I'm not certain about is when two players swing almost simultaneously (and sabers do not come in contact with each other); player1 hits first then player2's swing continues thru to hit. Maybe the CSC values could do a check in this situation and if player1 has the appropriate value then a block or "jammed" attack occurs. Currently the player with the stronger attack but not the first attack wins the engagement. Its the evolution of broadsword to rapier issue, the broadsword has the power but during the broadsword wind-up the rapier was penetrating gaps in armor, piercing vital organs and cutting arteries. Basically adding a provision where you could "beat some one to the punch" with a quick successful attack. Right now, if two players swing at each other at roughly the same time, without clashing sabers, then both players will score a hit, as neither player is able to interrupt their attack to block. I see what you're talking about, but being able to interrupt their attack, or "hit them before they hit you" and take the wind out of their swing would give a huge advantage to the faster styles. You'd be able to rush any slower stance swing and get in a quick nick or two before they could complete their swing, and interrupt it. That would lead to a lot of people not using the Red stance, which is slightly underpowered at this point anyway. Am I correctly reading what you're suggesting here? Something else to consider may be to add a knock-down from a perfect redstance hit that is just barely blocked. Has the backstab aiming arc been changed? They seem harder to execute. Adding a small arch of rotation to DFA and backstab would discourage script users from using the Blender-Backsweep but also allow a degree of aiming to occur. Currently Backsweeps/stabs aren't viable attacks. Anyway, great work so far... I'm already considering the role of swing inertia with the heavier swings. I'll just have to see what I can do with it. The backstab CSC aiming point is inverted, so a "perfect" aim would be directly behind you. This makes the backstabs really hard to do; maybe too hard. I'm not going to make them spinnable, because the animations have their feet planted firmly on the ground, but I am considering giving the moves a bonus that'll increase their usefulness without making them too powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 I like that suggestion about the swing vs swing. Although, it's true that faster stances would get preference because they'd just cancel out heavy swings if they hit. What if getting hit would jostle your aim a bit, affect the other persons csc. We know that in this game red beats blue, yellow beats red, blue beats yellow... yada yada yada. But there are situations where red doesn't just beat blue, but completely outclasses it. A person can use a blue lunge, but rather than be rewarded for outmaneuvering the opponent and striking first, he gets slammed, and being stuck in an animation, there's nothing he can do. If you could have an effect where getting pecked to death would effect your csc values a bit, i think that would give more of an incentive for players to be careful when doing swings. Blue stance would effectively become a counter system, and have the ability to snuff attacks quite well, pending you're both kind of trading hits. This is the nature of fighting in general, so to speak, pending you do something painful enough. I think a lightsaber is. Oh, and why don't you just fess up and tell us all what this new force power thing is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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